Mom dragged kid by backpack harness!

[hornedfrog]

You sure do have a way with offending people, even though that, apparently, isn't your intention.

My husband and I can hold our heads up high. We are good parents, who are not embarrassed about keeping our children safe.

Guess what, all children are different. Just because you, with your awesome parenting skills, have kept your children safe without a harness, doesn't mean you'd be able to control all children that way.

Those who are comfortable with their decisions are the ones disregarding my posts and moving on with their lives without a second thought.

Without sarcasm.

 

[ckay87]

I really didn't mean for this to turn into a debate about whether or not parents should use the harness. I was sad and angry and upset that a mother would actually drag her child through a store the way she did and I thought most people here could sympathize and that most would agree that no adult in their right mind would ever drag a child like that, using a harness or not.

To those of you who are arguing constantly on this thread about who is more offending to the other - you really should take it to your pm's. I'm at the point that I don't even want to open this thread anymore because it's turned into a back and forth between people who are trying to prove who is more right and who is more offending.

I had no doubt that this would turn into a child leash debate, I was just stunned at the speed with which it happened. Wow.

I am also astounded how passionately people feel about this. I never used the things, but I have no opinion whatsoever about them. It really is a mind-your-own-business issue for me. Doesn't affect me or others, and used properly is not an abusive practice. I can't see caring about something like this. Just don't get it.

 

[hornedfrog]

Jenvenza-

No, not kidding. Safety is the reason that I do not take my kids to places where they would be endangered. There's not just one choice here (leash or no leash). The last resort for me is that I do not put my kids in dangerous environments where I cannot handle them without compromising their dignity. I'll ignore the rest of your post as the insults are really not worth consideration.

 

[ChrizJen]

I used a little leash thing on my DD when she was two. It had a little vest and the leash was attached to the back. I was a single mom trying to shop and didn't want her to wander off. Of course, I never dragged her by it. I don't think the problem is with the leash. The problem is with the parent and how she used it.

Well I'm one that uses the leash because I'm way too tall for my kids to reach up and hold my hand. I think what that mother did is disgusting but don't judge all who use them. They serve a real purpose for me. My child should not have to hold their hand all the way over their head and me have to hunker down just to make others happy.

Thank you! I was beginning to feel like a horrible mom for wanting to keep my SUPER DUPER active 2 year old safe! We have one that's a monkey backpack that has a handle for a "tail". It's cute, she loves it, and it gives her the freedom to explore without having to worry about going too far.
I completely agree that there are parents who misuse them, and this mom is a perfect example. But I hate it when people make broad judgements about things like that. Unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond our control, our DD has been exposed to so many people in and out of her life, she issues with "stranger danger". I would rather keep her safe than have to worry about her wandering off with a stranger she thinks she can trust.

 

[Jenvenza]

Jenvenza-

No, not kidding. Safety is the reason that I do not take my kids to places where they would be endangered. There's not just one choice here (leash or no leash). The last resort for me is that I do not put my kids in dangerous environments where I cannot handle them without compromising their dignity. I'll ignore the rest of your post as the insults are really not worth consideration.

It seems you can be nothing but condescending. So, I guess people who have kids who are runners should keep them locked in the house, because technically, even the front yard could be dangerous. And to suggest that the parents are compromising thier childrens dignity by using a harness is ridiculous. Again, I will say your comments are ignorant - which is not an insult - it just simply means you don't seem to know enough about children who wander or run to make a educated comment about it.

 

[Feralpeg]

Jenvenza-

No, not kidding. Safety is the reason that I do not take my kids to places where they would be endangered. There's not just one choice here (leash or no leash). The last resort for me is that I do not put my kids in dangerous environments where I cannot handle them without compromising their dignity. I'll ignore the rest of your post as the insults are really not worth consideration.

The problem, as I see it, is that you cannot control this. Any place you go is potentially dangerous.

When my brother was five years old, we were walking on the sidewalk on the main street of our little town. It was a very small town. My parents were walking with us. We turned a corner to go to another store. There was a stairwell there leading to a basement. I'm sure we had all walked past this stairwell many times and never thought a thing about it. When we turned the corner, my brother was probably a couple of steps ahead of my parents. My brother wasn't looking and fell down the stairwell. He ended up in the hospital for a couple of days due to that tumble. My point being that it wasn't a dangerous place. It was a place we had been many times. Sometimes, things just happen.

When my daughter was four, we were in Los Angeles. I took her to a mall near our hotel. She was always very good about staying beside me. I hadn't brought her stroller with us because we flew out. I didn't know the mall well, so we stopped to look at one of those signs that tells you the layout of the mall. My sister was with us and was standing right beside us. I let go of my daughter's hand to point something out to my sister. I had a package in my other hand. It couldn't have been more than 30 seconds. My daughter was gone. I was so scared. We started yelling for her. People started looking around to help us. After three or four minutes of sheer terror, she suddenly appeared. She had decided to run around one of those thing in the mall where you can see to the next level down. She didn't realize how long it would take her to do so. By the time she made the circle and spotted us, she was crying. It scared her, but not as bad as it scared me. I never dreamed she could disappear so fast. I certainly don't think I was being negligent. I just took my eye off of her for 30 seconds. It happens.

Finally, my daughter and I went to WDW when she was seven. At that time, the TTC was different. They had big chain-link fences that did not open until they were ready to start running the monorails first thing in the morning.

DD and I were going to MK that day early. We took the bus from our resort to the TTC to catch the monorail. When we arrived the gates were still closed, so we got in line (not really a line, but just a bunch of people waiting). There was a sign talking about something on the wall about five steps away. I don't even remember what it was about. I told my daughter to stay there and stepped over to read the sign. Stupid move on my part. Unfortunately during those couple of minutes several bus loads of people arrived and emptied into the TTC waiting area. I turned back from the sign and could not see my daughter. I called her name repeatedly. Other people started asking me what she looked like. I could not find her.

I snagged a security CM and told him what had happened. About that time, they opened the gates and all the people (by this time, well over a hundred) moved through the gate. Only after the people had moved through, did I spot her. She came running to me and told me that she had hugged a trash can to keep from being swept away by the crowd. Again, it was my fault. I took my eye off her for two minutes. That's all it takes in what seems like the safest place in the world. Things happen. Situations can change in the blink of an eye.

And, just one last thing, since this has been weighing on my mind. My daughter is now 21 years old. The other night we went to DTD. My daughter was driving. We were in the Marketplace parking lot looking for a spot. Thank God my daughter was barely moving because a little girl (appeared to be about 3) came darting out from between parked cars. My daughter slammed on the brakes, but it was close. Her parents had taken her and her brother out of the car and were getting things out but were not holding on to the kids. In a flash, that little girl ran into the traffic lane. Things happen very quickly.

It seems this argument comes up on these boards about once a year. I really don't see why it is necessary to argue about this. Each parent is trying to do the best for their children. Why not give each other the benefit of the doubt. Blanket judgements are never good.

 

[npmommie]

jenvenza, that pic of your dd is sooooo adorable! what a cutie pie!

 

[Jenvenza]

jenvenza, that pic of your dd is sooooo adorable! what a cutie pie!

Thank you!!! She is our princess!

 

[sbell111]

I think those leashes are a really great idea. In fact, I'm thinking of attaching one of these to it and really letting Sarah stretch her legs.

 

[bjgrazi]

I never put anyone down for using a harness in the past, but I also never thought I'd be a parent that would use one.

After my husband and I losing our 3y/o a couple of weeks ago while out, we now use a harness in certain situations. We have an extremely active kid who does not understand limits or the word no. He's not our first and our other 2 are extremely well behaved. (well they're 20 & 17) For us it's now safety and sanity.

 

[C.Ann]

hoirnedfrog, perhaps you're not understanding that the tone of your posts is coming off as very offensive and condescending. You are implying that people who choose to use a leash on their very young child are bad and lazy parents. People tend to respond to that kind of tone with sarcasm.

I have known people who have "leashed" their small children. I now know these children as teens and they have no recollection and certainly no trauma from being leashed. I have known people who feel, as you do, that leashes are abhorrent. They developed other ways to manage, as you did.

Dragging a child along by a leash is clearly wrong. There are those that think that constantly yanking on a kid's arm or threatening "consequences" is also wrong.

Just because someone makes some different parenting choices than you do doesn't make them a bad parent. Especially if they make those choices responsibly and handle them properly.

Great post!

I would also like to add that my parents used a harness on me back in the very early 50's - when I was a toddler.. Dignity is still intact; I don't bark; I don't chew on the furniture; I don't lift my leg to pee; and I don't prefer my meals in bowls on the floor..

Interesting that people would choose to use a leash on a "dog" to keep them safe, but the safety of their children is less important..

 

[agnes!]

hoirnedfrog, perhaps you're not understanding that the tone of your posts is coming off as very offensive and condescending. You are implying that people who choose to use a leash on their very young child are bad and lazy parents. People tend to respond to that kind of tone with sarcasm.

I have known people who have "leashed" their small children. I now know these children as teens and they have no recollection and certainly no trauma from being leashed. I have known people who feel, as you do, that leashes are abhorrent. They developed other ways to manage, as you did.

Dragging a child along by a leash is clearly wrong. There are those that think that constantly yanking on a kid's arm or threatening "consequences" is also wrong.

Just because someone makes some different parenting choices than you do doesn't make them a bad parent. Especially if they make those choices responsibly and handle them properly.

Exactly.

Disney Doll

I truly don't have the time, energy or inclination to care about how anyone interprets my "tone". Those who are defensive will be defensive. Those who don't give a flip will continue to not give a flip. Sarcasm remains one of the laziest forms of dissent.

We are all entitled to our own opinion. I stand by mine. Others are free to do the same.

In my own opinion... for not having the time, energy or inclination to care "hf" seems to have posted to this thread quite a bit.

I really didn't mean for this to turn into a debate about whether or not parents should use the harness. I was sad and angry and upset that a mother would actually drag her child through a store the way she did and I thought most people here could sympathize and that most would agree that no adult in their right mind would ever drag a child like that, using a harness or not.

To those of you who are arguing constantly on this thread about who is more offending to the other - you really should take it to your pm's. I'm at the point that I don't even want to open this thread anymore because it's turned into a back and forth between people who are trying to prove who is more right and who is more offending.

The problem, as I see it, is that you cannot control this. Any place you go is potentially dangerous.

When my brother was five years old, we were walking on the sidewalk on the main street of our little town. It was a very small town. My parents were walking with us. We turned a corner to go to another store. There was a stairwell there leading to a basement. I'm sure we had all walked past this stairwell many times and never thought a thing about it. When we turned the corner, my brother was probably a couple of steps ahead of my parents. My brother wasn't looking and fell down the stairwell. He ended up in the hospital for a couple of days due to that tumble. My point being that it wasn't a dangerous place. It was a place we had been many times. Sometimes, things just happen.

When my daughter was four, we were in Los Angeles. I took her to a mall near our hotel. She was always very good about staying beside me. I hadn't brought her stroller with us because we flew out. I didn't know the mall well, so we stopped to look at one of those signs that tells you the layout of the mall. My sister was with us and was standing right beside us. I let go of my daughter's hand to point something out to my sister. I had a package in my other hand. It couldn't have been more than 30 seconds. My daughter was gone. I was so scared. We started yelling for her. People started looking around to help us. After three or four minutes of sheer terror, she suddenly appeared. She had decided to run around one of those thing in the mall where you can see to the next level down. She didn't realize how long it would take her to do so. By the time she made the circle and spotted us, she was crying. It scared her, but not as bad as it scared me. I never dreamed she could disappear so fast. I certainly don't think I was being negligent. I just took my eye off of her for 30 seconds. It happens.

Finally, my daughter and I went to WDW when she was seven. At that time, the TTC was different. They had big chain-link fences that did not open until they were ready to start running the monorails first thing in the morning.

DD and I were going to MK that day early. We took the bus from our resort to the TTC to catch the monorail. When we arrived the gates were still closed, so we got in line (not really a line, but just a bunch of people waiting). There was a sign talking about something on the wall about five steps away. I don't even remember what it was about. I told my daughter to stay there and stepped over to read the sign. Stupid move on my part. Unfortunately during those couple of minutes several bus loads of people arrived and emptied into the TTC waiting area. I turned back from the sign and could not see my daughter. I called her name repeatedly. Other people started asking me what she looked like. I could not find her.

I snagged a security CM and told him what had happened. About that time, they opened the gates and all the people (by this time, well over a hundred) moved through the gate. Only after the people had moved through, did I spot her. She came running to me and told me that she had hugged a trash can to keep from being swept away by the crowd. Again, it was my fault. I took my eye off her for two minutes. That's all it takes in what seems like the safest place in the world. Things happen. Situations can change in the blink of an eye.

And, just one last thing, since this has been weighing on my mind. My daughter is now 21 years old. The other night we went to DTD. My daughter was driving. We were in the Marketplace parking lot looking for a spot. Thank God my daughter was barely moving because a little girl (appeared to be about 3) came darting out from between parked cars. My daughter slammed on the brakes, but it was close. Her parents had taken her and her brother out of the car and were getting things out but were not holding on to the kids. In a flash, that little girl ran into the traffic lane. Things happen very quickly.

It seems this argument comes up on these boards about once a year. I really don't see why it is necessary to argue about this. Each parent is trying to do the best for their children. Why not give each other the benefit of the doubt. Blanket judgements are never good.

Feralpeg -
Bravo especially to your last paragraph.

agnes!

 

[5lilfish]

I didn't use a harness until I had twins, and I found them much less restraining than a stroller, a tool that some parents use to hold their child hostage so they don't have to pay attention to him or her. Just belt them in, and push them around. god forbid kids get exercise. I'd rather my children be able to walk, and when you have 2 toddlers, it's just not possible NOT to use harnesses if you are by yourself, safely.

I'm guessing the parent dragging the child by the harness would've just dragged the child by the shirt if the harness wasn't there.

I have 5 kids. My last 2 are twins. The first 3 are now 12, 11 and 9. I think I used a harness once with one of the older 3 kids. I use them much more often with the twins. It's either use the harness or never let them out of a stroller (or never leave the house..and I do no find the whole, "we never take our child anyplace that might be dangerous" to be a little ridiculous/unrealistic....and truthfully I don't think you do a child any favors by staying home).

I do not use the leash to be lazy or avoid paying attention to my girls. It would be much lazier for me to keep them in a stroller and much easier to not pay attention to them if they were buckled into a stroller. Using the leash is more work for me but better for the girls. They can run and explore a bit and I can keep them from taking off in 2 directions. If anything, the leash requires me to pay more attention to them. They seem to love wearing the harness and love the freedom that comes with it. They are very willing to let me slip it on hem without struggling. The harnesses also allow my older 3 kids to help out with the twins. Even the 9 yr old can hold the leash and let her sister run a bit (right next to me and her other little sister).

You don't have to use a leash if you do not want to, but it's insane to imply that parents who use a leash are lazy or innattentive. If anything, I find the opposite to be true. I use a leash because I am not being lazy and I pay more attention when I use one.

Jess

edit...adding that my twins are 2 yrs old. I forgot to post their age.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If this were a bar DisneyBamaFan and LisaLovesPooh would be out in the back alley beating the crap out of each other by now.

With backpack leashes.

 

[Disney Doll]

Agreed, if the choices are made with the child's best interests at heart...

I would like to think that most parents....and please note that I said most and not all...do make decisions with their child's best interest at heart.

 

[Disney Doll]

See bolded.

Disney Doll

I truly don't have the time, energy or inclination to care about how anyone interprets my "tone". Those who are defensive will be defensive. Those who don't give a flip will continue to not give a flip. Sarcasm remains one of the laziest forms of dissent.As does condescension, but clearly you seem to think it works for you so carry on and good luck with that.

We are all entitled to our own opinion. I stand by mine. Others are free to do the same. Your opinion isn't the issue, but then again, you don't care. Regards.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I would like to think that most parents....and please note that I said most and not all...do make decisions with their child's best interest at heart.

I agree, and I have not said a word against those who choose to use the leashes in this thread. I simply indicated why we didn't need to use one.

I am still surprised at how catty these threads get...

 

[bumbershoot]

I didn't watch the video; my mind's eye was doing a good enough job imagining what was on it.

I don't think the problem is with the leash. The problem is with the parent and how she used it.

Absolutely. Even though I didn't watch it, I am solid on that!



I was raised, along with my brother, by a single mom. Before they had me, my mom had a big sled dog. After she had me, she got another sled dog, then had my brother. You can imagine her difficulties when taking all of us out!

She had the malamutes on sturdy collars with good leashes. And she had me and my brother with lovely (ha) black harnesses with nylon leads. In that way, she got to take us out and about when she could, and there are some cute pictures of us all at the beach together.

I always figured I'd use a harness; I'm not much into baby gear other than a sling and carseat, but I was excited about when I'd get to buy a harness. Finally the day came. I put it on. And....it's not that he hated it. It's that...I think...my guy's part sled dog, and he thought that I (the sled he wanted to pull) was stuck in the ice. Ouch.

I had to figure out a different way, b/c it didn't work how it was supposed to work. I'm pro-harness, but it didn't work for us. Maybe it'll work for a different kid.

Leashes belong on dogs, not humans.

And why do we use leashes on dogs?

Ok I'm not coming back to this thread; I rarely come back to CB threads, so I won't wait for your reply. With dogs, it's two-fold. One, to keep people safe from dogs. But TWO, to keep dogs safe from, oh, anything. Getting it by cars, bicycles, etc. To keep rotten people from grabbing them and taking them (my mom once had a situation like that, even though her puppy was on a leash, while walking him in San Francisco, very scary).

If we want to keep our dogs safe, what on earth is wrong with wanting to keep our kids safe?

I can tell you, it didn't make us "feel like dogs". And if it did, who cares? My mom loved our dogs! Most people love their dogs, many people treat their dogs better than some people treat their children! Being treated like a dog isn't usually a BAD thing (well, my husband who lived in Taiwan for awhile and ate interesting soups, would remind me that not all countries have dogs as *pets*), so I'll say "being treated like a pet dog isn't a BAD thing".

I love looking at the pix from the beach; my mom did a great job keeping us all safe from the cars along the road and the scary Monterey area ocean.

Imagine if this was the case:
"Come on darling sweetheart I have to go"
"No, I am playing this game"
"If you don't come now I will drag you out"
"Ok try it" and little Johnny falls to the floor
Mom drags him to prove a point, never thinking someone would catch it on their video phone.
"Ha Ha mom, that was fun, do it again"

Yeah, the last harness experience I had with my son was similar.

Scene, at the airport, waiting for someone I had never seen in person (cyber-friend out for a cyber-friends fun weekend)...had to keep my eyes peeled for her along with watching DS.

Son: can I have the backpack on (note: he wasn't speaking all that well then, so I'm not quoting him)

Me: sure

Son: whee, I can RUN to the END and SLAMMO there goes Molly's shoulder.

Me: ouch, E, please don't do that, come back here....OUCH.

Son: whee, I've walked slowly to the end of the lead and now I'm leaning...leaning more...leaning more....gosh Molly is a good Molly b/c she's holding me...what's she saying? something about not doing that? but it's FUN! I'm at a 45 degree angle to the floor, look people are looking at us, isn't this fun? I wonder what it looks like to others!

Me: I'm trying to haul you back but it's not working, and now I'm sweating and everyone's looking at me (there weren't really that many people around but it felt like a million eyes boring into me) and this is embarrassing and I'm NOT doing anything wrong but I'm sure it LOOKS like I am, augh.... E get back here NOW!

Son: OK, fine. What? hold your hand? No No no no no no no, ow, you're squeezing my hand soooo hard (not really, he just hated holding hands until he was about 4 yo), oh I'm a drama-boy, oh woe is me....

Me: Hi cyberfriend, let's get out of here! (mentally tosses harness into garbage can on the way out)



Last time we used it. Ugh. The 2 years between then and once he finally got good at holding hands without it being a scene were, yeah, best forgotten.

Horrible.

I am a single mom of a 3-year-old and a 4-year-old. My eldest is a runner. I am no saint. But I would never put a harness on her. I am her mother. She WILL (and does usually) mind me because I mean business. I do not have the time or energy for a harness or for nagging for her to 'be a good girl and mind'. There are consequences (timeouts, loss of priviledges that she prizes as the big-sister, etc). I know what works. It works. No leash.

That has worked for you and your particular kids. It would NOT have worked for my son. Oh yeah, if you were watching him for a couple hours I'm sure he would have "minded" you, but not if you were his parent. Trust me, I was single and childfree for MUCH longer than my friends, and I saw the vast differences between how they were with their parents vs fun-Molly, I got much different behaviour out of them than they would do for their moms especially.

The kids you've had already, this has worked well with. But all kids are different, and 3rd kids are often VERY different, so if you have another, be prepared, b/c what has worked with your first 2 might not work very well with the next. (oldest of 5 kids here)

When you say "she will mind because I mean business", that SOUNDS to others like "well, if your child isn't 'minding' it's b/c you don't mean business". And that's just nonsense. There are plenty of kids who don't give a hoot about someone meaning business, no matter what they are doing. I wasn't raised in a spanking household, but my dad was, and despite all the BEATINGS he got (not spankings, beatings, in his family of 7 kids), he relished being BAD. He was bad from boyhood, his brothers and sister have all sorts of stories to prove it. And I'll tell you, his mom was SCARY. She "meant business" alllll the time. Her grandchildren feared her, her kids feared her, all but my dad. You just never know, when you meet your new baby, just what they will respond to.

So...you've been lucky so far, that your kids respond to the way you parent. And I hope you can understand that soon.

...but I cannot see why a parent with only one toddler would need to do so. I never take my eyes off of my boys when in crowded places, so I never needed a leash - even with the runner. My wife and I just took turns "watching" him while we shopped. If he ran, he knew that he was going in the cart for the remainder of the day - and he wanted his freedom, so he behaved (most of the time )...

Well, I can. Hope it's enough for you that there are solo kids out there who just do NOT respond to hand-holding, being clipped into strollers, etc etc.

I also had a cruddy pregnancy where my joints nearly exploded by halfway through (even my wrists), and I'm still not sure I'm "back together" how I should be, joint-wise, and especially in the toddler years...it HURT to run after him. If he bolted just once, the trip was done, because it hurt me too much.

Oh I wish he'd responded well to the harness!

I think the biggest issue with leashes is the way some parents tend to use them as substitute babysitters or playpens.

I hate playpens b/c of how my friends tended to use them as substitute them....oh wait, maybe I just hate them b/c my son could climb out of his as soon as we finally got one. (or b/c my friends would put their kids in them instead of letting me hold the kids while they ran to the bathroom or whatever, sniffle)

I'm just being silly, sorry.

 

[paintnolish]

Today, at a local play place (think Chuck E Cheese minus the show and decent pizza). Anyway, I saw a mom dragging a tantruming toddler by the arm. He was definitely not walking of his own accord! She took him to a quiet conrer until he calmed down. Was this a felony or even abuse?

 

[luvmy3]

I had no doubt that this would turn into a child leash debate, I was just stunned at the speed with which it happened. Wow.

I am also astounded how passionately people feel about this. I never used the things, but I have no opinion whatsoever about them. It really is a mind-your-own-business issue for me. Doesn't affect me or others, and used properly is not an abusive practice. I can't see caring about something like this. Just don't get it.

Amen. OTH I can't stand when I see parents let their child use a binky and a bottle after the age of 1. How could they be so cruel.









Just kidding