Minor child used my debit card online....

[Northstar]

Not knowing all the accounts and passwords may also point to a 2nd party involved. 'El thiefo' (love the term) may have set up the accounts for him using your card info that he gave him. His hemming and hawing may not be because he just doesn't want to give you the info, but that he doesn't know it and doesn't want to reveal an even bigger problem - he was also a victim.

He was definitely wrong in stealing, no doubt about that, but I would give dollars to donuts with all the complicated stuff you said he did, that he has also fallen victim to somebody preying on kids, kids that may be already susceptible to the suggestion of stealing Mom's debit card.

The online games and chat rooms are not exactly the safest place from child predators. Predators have been known on occasion to visit and befriend kids in kid chat rooms. And it doesn't have to always be sexual predators.

I would definitely have the therapist try to dig to see if your son was being helped by anybody. And I suggest the therapist, because just like a sexual predator, the son may have been threatened if he told, or was made to feel guilty if the other party is caught. If there is a second party, then you have a criminal case to go to the police with.

But at the very least, lI would still put a watch on your identity through the credit bureaus,

OP, this got buried a few pages back but I do truly believe there is something like this involved in the Paypal account. Sure, a 9-year-old can swipe your card from your wallet and enter it to pay for something. But to link Paypal to your bank account, that involves a whole different level of planning (open an email account, open a Paypal account linked to the email, get the confirmation email and verify your account, enter the debit card info into the new Paypal account and then somehow get the information FROM YOUR BANK ACCOUNT about the 2 verification deposits that Paypal makes into your bank account to verify that you are you.... ) There's another person involved in this, I feel it in my bones.

 

[Pamlur]

I think I would immediately close my bank account and open another one. I know it would be a horrendous pain in the behind to do, but far better safe than sorry. My grandchildren are absolute internet wizards, but I don't believe a 9 year old would be able to go through all the steps that it takes to open a Paypal account.

I'm a grandmother, so I'm not going to offer an opinion about taking him to WDW or not.

 

[mkymouse1928]

I'm going to agree with those who have said that leaving him home from the trip is not the best course of action. Family time is such a rare commodity, especially an uninterrupted week on vacation, that giving that up will only serve to make him feel that he isn't important enough for family time.

Many years ago my brother did something to break the trust of the whole family. His punishment was to be my mom's sidekick for the entire summer. I mean he lost ALL privleges, and where mom went, my brother went. The only time that he didn't have to go with her was when she went to work, and then I was in charge until my dad got home (a matter of a couple of hours). My brother learned his lesson that summer about trust and doing the right thing, but the most important thing he learned is that my parents still loved him no matter how badly he screwed up, and that he was a valued member of the family.

 

[livie1205]

He is only 9. I would punish him and make him work off the money, but Disney is a family trip. I would let him go.

Some people have good ideas, but geez, even criminals get a second chance! He is already in therapy so these are issues for him that they are working on. He still needs to know he is a good person that made a huge mistake. With mistakes have consequences, but he is a good person who made bad choices.

If he doesn't get to go to Disney, that is the punishment. He doesn't need a week of more lectures. I am a high school teacher, some of these punishments will make him feel like a horrible/bad person. A teen who thinks he is horrible, asks like he think he is perceived by others.

Between therapy and his natural consequences I'm thinking he will be a fine young man. Now if he was 16 and doing this, I'd say different things.

yeh criminals get a another chance AFTER they get out of jail...the judge does not say" shame on you now go to wdw for some family fun" what he did was a crime and "grounding" him is getting off easy...what if he had been a friends house and took their parents card? He would have cuffs on right now.I do not think that him staying with grandma for ONE family vacation will damage him forever and make him think he is not part of the family...I think it will make him think "wow it sucks to steal" .

 

[LisaR]

yeh criminals get a another chance AFTER they get out of jail...the judge does not say" shame on you now go to wdw for some family fun" what he did was a crime and "grounding" him is getting off easy...what if he had been a friends house and took their parents card? He would have cuffs on right now.I do not think that him staying with grandma for ONE family vacation will damage him forever and make him think he is not part of the family...I think it will make him think "wow it sucks to steal" .

But they are going to WDW in a month from now. If he did this yesterday and they were leaving tomorrow, I could see making him stay home. This shouldn't be something that is still an issue in a month from now. If this is still the main focus in 30 days, something is wrong. Take him to therapy, keep a close eye on him from now on, sell his electronics, make him do chores, and move on. Many criminals do get probation instead of jail.

 

[Elmo9607]

I think I would leave him at home for the WDW trip and make it very clear to him as to WHY he has left behind. Just be sure Gramma is willing to take him and willing to make sure he has no fun that week. (My gramma wouldn't have cared about any punishment and would have bought me new toys and fed me junk food all week)

1) Clear his room. Only a Mattress, a few outfits, and bed linens. No electronics of any kind. Keep his game systems and all games in storage. take the door off it's hinges, no privacy if you can't be trusted.

2) Grounded from any friends homes.

3) He is to be payed $1-2 per chore until he can pay back the full amount of what is owed to you. Only after his full debt is payed will his room be restored back to normal. This grounding period of extra chores and a bare room should take at least a month. He may slowly earn back items in his room as he reaches certain dollar amounts on the payback.

Make this dependent not just on chores, but on the attitude he has while doing them. $1 for a normal chore, $2 for the chore if you did it without complaint and with a good attitutde.

4) Game systems will be kept permanently unless he can suddenly remember those passwords and login names. If you get all the info he may get the systems back at the end of summer. If he still refuses to give you the passwords, then add the cost of the game systems to his debt and he may buy that back from you as well. At full cost.

5) Make sure for the next 4 weeks to keep a very close eye on him. No Tv, Nothing fun. Make sure to have long talks about trust and what it means when there is none. Perhaps at the end of this time make him write you a short paper about what the word TRUST means to him.


What he did implies he put a lot of thought into it. He deliberately took a card and charged money to it. He tried to hide his actions and then showed no remorse. He is a very clever kid, but he probably also needs a *very* strong punishment to make an impression. This is one of those times when you have come down like the hand of god and make the kid's life STOP as they know it.

Trust me... I was on the receiving end of a punishment like that at the age of 7. Last time i *ever* tried that.....

I agree with this, only I would add:

No junk food or "treats" for the rest of the summer.

If chore is done with complaints or a bad attitude, no money will be paid and he will have to repeat it as many times as necessary until he does it without whining.

Have a set "wake up time" and "bed time" every day. Say 8 am wakeup and 8:30 pm bedtime. He will not be allowed to stay up late or sleep in.

No friends will be allowed over. Suspend phone priveleges.

NEVER leave him home unnattended if at all possible. You may want to resort to keeping him in the same room with you at all times. My mom did that to me once, and it was TORTURE even though it only lasted a day or two.

Leave him behind when you go to Disney.

 

[livie1205]

But they are going to WDW in a month from now. If he did this yesterday and they were leaving tomorrow, I could see making him stay home. This shouldn't be something that is still an issue in a month from now. If this is still the main focus in 30 days, something is wrong. Take him to therapy, keep a close eye on him from now on, sell his electronics, make him do chores, and move on. Many criminals do get probation instead of jail.

no they dont...I have sat in juvi court many many times and they are 100% strict on them...alot of the time instead of probation for kids they use house arrest and its for more then a month...house arrest and community service hours in which they can leave ONLY for school and the community service.I also take my kids to teen court once a week and i can tell you sometimes they are better off in front of a real judge, those kids are harsh.

charges would be: grand theft (felony), cedit card fraud, i.d. theft and prob more....

 

[Lizzy2]

Well, OP, I feel for you because my kid did this too. Only DD was 7 and only did it on one site and there was no PayPal or anything else involved. My husband was ill and I had been up all night with him. We were both snoozing and she "needed" to buy some new characters for her online video game. Her computer had parental controls so we had approved the site but we had no idea there were things to purchase there. She had seen us shop online many times so she knew how. I agree with another poster who said it is really that lack of remorse and cooperativeness that is worrisome with your DS. My DD was a wreck once I figured out what she had done. She was allowed no computer at home for 6 months and only at school if directed by the teacher. We told school and afterschool caregivers everything which of course embarrassed her but kept her off of the computers there for fun. The computer came out of her room and as far as I am concerned will never go back. She now gets a small amount of time on a laptop while she is sitting next to one of us and that's it.
As for the $$, the bank closed the card and acted as if a stranger had stolen it and reimbursed me. We had big discussions about stealing and how pp who steal go to jail. A few weeks after the incident, I handed her my new card to give to the grocery cashier. She visibly shook and wouldn't take it from me!! She said "no way! I'm not touching that again!"
I think taking your DS back to therapy is a good idea. maybe the therapist can advise about taking him to WDW? I always say take away what will hurt them the most to do without. DD really suffered and longed for her computer time during those 6 months but we held our ground. Good Luck

 

[LisaR]

no they dont...I have sat in juvi court many many times and they are 100% strict on them...alot of the time instead of probation for kids they use house arrest and its for more then a month...house arrest and community service hours in which they can leave ONLY for school and the community service.I also take my kids to teen court once a week and i can tell you sometimes they are better off in front of a real judge, those kids are harsh.

charges would be: grand theft (felony), cedit card fraud, i.d. theft and prob more....

Things must be different in N. FL compared to here in Central FL. My DD has been volunteering at our teen court for two years now and it is generally a joke. Talk about kids that don't have any remorse. Because of the teen court experience, I have taken DD to multiple court proceedings. We have watched many people walk out the door with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

I think what the OP's son did was very serious. I am 100% in favor of selling all of his electronics and banning him from the computer for 6 months. I am also in favor of some serious counseling and even some extra chores. Beyond that, I think it is too harsh to take away friends for months on end, remove everything from his bedroom, leave him at home instead of going on vacation with the family and basically acting like he robbed a bank instead of used his mom's debit card. The OP needs to get to the bottom of this but this is a 9 y/o child. He needs to know that they don't hate him because of this and that he is still part of the family. If he was 16 or this was the second time he has done something like this, I would respond differently. The OP gave no indication that this child has done anything like this in the past.

 

[disneymarie]

Just looking for support from parents who may have "gone down this road" with their child before .... and what we can do from this point forward so he has a chance at a better life!

Thanks for letting me vent....

I am not sure but I certainy would contact each of the companies by doing a dispute against any charges. You may have to pay $50 for the debit use.
Ask your bank how they handle disputed charges a minor makes. Gosh in our county, the kids were sent to a camp corrections in pup tents in the winter, for a food fight.

I would make him work it off. Maybe yard work, a farm mucking stalls, make him earn back the money and your trust.
He needs to learn your credibility in life when lost is something you may not earn back. Such as an employer. You would not want a summer job as a youth to turn into a legal liability.

Speak to the Tdoc, and see what they think can help.
I would also watch for shop lifting, taking from friends and siblings, your purse or wallets....
Hugs to you Mom, the best place for venting and braingstorming is our DIS family!

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

WOW!! I would ground him the whole summer...and a trip to Disney World would be out of the question!!! The only bags I would pack for him is the one's he will be taking to granny's house. If she is able to handle him, he may steal her credit card info as well.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I think what the OP's son did was very serious. I am 100% in favor of selling all of his electronics and banning him from the computer for 6 months. I am also in favor of some serious counseling and even some extra chores. Beyond that, I think it is too harsh to take away friends for months on end, remove everything from his bedroom, leave him at home instead of going on vacation with the family and basically acting like he robbed a bank instead of used his mom's debit card. The OP needs to get to the bottom of this but this is a 9 y/o child. He needs to know that they don't hate him because of this and that he is still part of the family. If he was 16 or this was the second time he has done something like this, I would respond differently. The OP gave no indication that this child has done anything like this in the past.

Agree with this.

Also, I would work with the counselor for the punishments. It does help to have a neutral third party to get things on track in addition to getting to the root if the issue.

He is going to be angry with the punishments so going to a counselor is the perfect place to hammer it out with the parents.

I am just speculating that the lack of remorse is just flat out anger and button pushing.

Sometimes you need to pull a troubled kid closer in to heal things on both sides.

 

[Diva of Dragons]

I didn't have time to read the entire thread, so if this is repetitive, please ignore. LOL!!

Since it was fraud and stealing etc.... Can you find out what the sentence and fines would be, if he had done these things, and been charged as an adult? That might wake him up!

So sorry you have to deal with this. I hope things get better with him!

 

[Imzadi]

Sorry, haven't read through everyone's responses yet.

This money was to be used for our WDW vacation in one month!

After confronting him about it, he showed little remorse - which is his main problem!

WE TOTALLY CANNOT TRUST HIM ANYMORE! Since the money he stole is more than the price of his WDW ticket, we told him we are considering leaving him at home with his grandmother while we go to Disney! Yes, his little lower lip was quivering.....

He committed fraud, theft and identity theft. I definitely think you should leave him home. Otherwise, you are saying you have more money to take him on the trip.

Let him know he SPENT the money that would have been his trip ON these other things.

The lack of remorse part is what I am really worried about. This wasn't an impulsive, one time act. It was premeditated.

This IS criminal behavior, and is fraud, theft and possibly identity theft. Could you contact your police dept., explain what he's done, and see if you could bring him there for a scare session?

This would be good. call the non-emergency number of your precinct and explain what happened. They are probably interested in setting him straight now, so they don't end up arresting him as a criminal down the road.

PS: I wouldn't leave him behind, if only because it really isn't fair to the grandparents to make time with them be a punishment of this magnitude.

I don't agree with this. Unless the grandparents don't care about their grandson, I would think they would be invested in wanting to get involved. They don't want their grandson to grow up as the next generation's Bernie Madoff.

 

[palmtreegirl]

I'm going against the majority and saying he needs more time with his parents now more then ever. I would definitely take him on the Disney trip, without a doubt. Let him know just how much he hurt you, how you feel you can't trust him, turn the tables on him, but like a previous poster said let him know you still love him and always will.

As for punishment, make him pay/earn the money back with interest, set up a time table, so he can learn what a credit card actual is and how it works. After 30 days he pays X amount of interest every month till it's paid off.

I'd also put him on house lock down, no TV, video games, computer, playing outside etc.. Then I'd let him earn back the privilege of using the items one at a time, first being his least favorite and computer being last. During this time, I'd start playing board games together, read some books, have some good old fashioned fun and bond. Show him there's more to life then electronics and how fun playing a game of Clue, Life, Checkers etc and spending time with your family can be.

Take this and look at it as an opportunity to teach him a very important life lesson, turn a good into a bad. I think you can turn this into something you'll look back on and be thankful for if you handle it right way.

Best of luck, be strong and fight to win back your little boy, you can do it.

 

[Planogirl]

Wow, what a difficult situation. I can see both sides of the Disneyworld part of it. Only you will know what's best.

You should get help with this though. He's such a young kid - I can't imagine what I would do.

 

[ksjayhawks]

no they dont...I have sat in juvi court many many times and they are 100% strict on them...alot of the time instead of probation for kids they use house arrest and its for more then a month...house arrest and community service hours in which they can leave ONLY for school and the community service.I also take my kids to teen court once a week and i can tell you sometimes they are better off in front of a real judge, those kids are harsh.

charges would be: grand theft (felony), cedit card fraud, i.d. theft and prob more....

This works for some kids, but for others it is a joke--they think they have beat the system and find ways to get around it. Then all of a sudden they turn 18 and get in trouble and the law comes down hard on them and they don't understand it.


Cancel bank account and set up a new one.
Contact the credit agenicies immediately and put an alert on your account.
Contact your credit cards and have them canceled and new ones issued.
Change passwords on any internet sites/accounts.
Put a password on the computers. You and dh are the only ones who have it which means the siblings are also restricted on computer use.
Move the computer to an area where the screen is always visible.

Contact Paypal, explain what happened, and cancel that account. You may be able to get some money back from them, not sure.

Forget about the money spent on points--that is probably gone, but cancel the accounts.

Get him back to the therapist.

Let ds know that you love him, but you cannot accept his behavior/actions and that when you break rules/steal/lie/misbehave/etc that you get into trouble and that there are consequences. Let him know what his consequences are.

Don't know how old your other kids are, but you need to sit down with them and talk about what happened and what your expectations of them are--no babying him, no sneaking him items, no begging you to let him do xx, etc. Let them know that you are disappointed in ds, but still love him.

Put him on harsh restrictions for the rest of the summer:
*no tv, electronics, games, computer, etc, so can't be with his siblings if they are doing these things
*no swimming
*no friends over/going to their houses/no being with siblings friends when they are over
*no fun stuff
*definite bedtime/getting up time
*chores at the rate of $1 or 2 per chore to earn money to pay you back
*clean out the room of all toys and extras (put them in his closet if it has a door that can be locked) or lock them up somewhere else. Once he has paid you back, he can start earning the items back on a weekly basis.
*he is not left home alone without an adult present
*he spends his day with you or dh
*when school starts, he can use the computer for school work as needed when you or dh can sit with him and watch him
*he has to earn use of the computer back and that could take several years--he will survive without the computer as well as a cell phone, iPod, etc!
*once his debt is paid, he earns back the use of electronics and watching tv, again on a weekly basis
*if he follows your rules, he can start earning the other restrictions back on a weekly basis

I personally would not take him to WDW. It would put a damper on your and your kids' vacation that he can't get treats, souveniers, etc and you may end up with the other kids sneaking him things, begging for him or you may give in as you feel sorry for the other kids having all the fun and he isn't. Also it isn't fair that one of you can't go on rides with the rest of the family while you have to wait with him. It will also show him that what he did is serious and that you mean business rather than "I stole from my mom and dad and I still got to go on vacation!" (Or as a PP said, they have money, they still took me.)
As hard as this may be, I agree with a poster who said that either you or your dh needs to stay home with him rather than take him on the trip to WDW. I know that is disappointing to you as you were looking forward to a great family trip (the mood of which is now changed due to what ds has done.) That is the hard part of parenting, but it shows all your kids that you are serious about what you say and when they break the rules, they get into trouble and there are consequences for their actions. I would not put this on grandparents. He is your son and you need to enforce the rules.
I would not cancel the trip as it is not fair to the other siblings. If you need help with the kids, take another adult with you--perhaps grandma.

This is a serious problem that you have. It was not a one time occurance, he did this several times. Even if someone else was involved (maybe with the paypal) he still did it. If you don't nip this problem in the bud now, with the help of the therapist, you could end up having much bigger problems later on. It sounds like you are going to have to keep a sharp eye on him for a long, long time, even when it looks like he has made a lot of progress. It will mean that you or dh may end up missing events in the future because one of you will have to stay with him.
The part that he shows no remorse worries me. I work with many students who do not show remorse and they talk about things that they did at age 9 or 10 and how they didn't get punished or the punishment was a joke or not followed through on, so they kept on doing things. I am amazed at the amount of "I want it, I want to do it, so what if it hurts someone else" attitudes.

Sending lots of hugs.



(Edited because I can spell!)

 

[usnuzuloose]

I did not read through all the posts but have you gone back into checking your bank statements? Just to make sure that this has not been going on for a while. He may have done it a few times here and there and then if you did not catch it he made the big ones. Just something to think about. I tell you what I wish this kind of online communication would have been around when mine was growing up. But I am very happy to hear you a paren to take action. I really commend you for it. Keep us informed of how things are going. My prayers are with you. Jo

 

[peanut1967]

At 9 he knows right from wrong. I would also be informing the school that although you want him to continue with computer studies you do not want him going on the internet.

Not sure if leaving him at home with Grandma would be a good idea, depends on how Grandma is, Grandmas are great at spoiling kids so unless you have one who is onboard with you it wouldnt be a good idea.

Do you have community police in the states?
We have community police who will come and talk to a child who does things like this.

One thing for sure is you cant let this go.

Angie

 

[NHdisneylover]

I tend to agree that leaving him home while everyone else goes to Disney could be very alienating and send the message that you don't want him to be a part of the family when he has behaved badly.
On the other hand, I think he does not deserve such a treat. As HARD as it would be to do, I think either you or your husband should stay home with him while the other takes the remaining children to Disney. This sends the message that he is very important to your family--so much so that one of you is willing to give up your vacation to make sure he understands how very wrong his actions were.

I am thinking you cannot/should not sell the electronics because they are likely joint property with the other kids

I also tend to think if you take away EVERYTHING as many have suggested he has nothing to lose, and you can make things much worse. So, here is what i think i would do:

He is grounded from all electronics until the end of the summer. After that limited time on the Wii or other systems that are not hooked up to the internet may be allowed. Let him know you have no set date for when he can get internet privileges back and when he does they will be severely curtailed. This is a matter of you feeling you can trust him again and you have no idea how long that may take.
He is on serious work detail for the remainder of the summer to "pay back" his debt. CHoose a reasonable hourly rate for hard work ($5 ?) and make him work 7-8 hours a day. Digging gardens, mucking stalls for a local barn, pulling weeds (at home, the neighbor's, church, wherever), whatever you can find that is physical labor and will be work. If it helps others in the process even better (mopping floors at a homeless shelter, etc). Keep a sharp eye on him and do not allow him to be paid for time that he is slacking off. He should be doing this work while the rest of the family is on vacation too.
I think after "Working" hours he should be allowed to enjoy playing with toys, etc (but no electronics) at home as if "normal." I DO think he should be grounded to the house until the payment is made in full and phone and visits should be limited (but again, I think alienating him from all of his friends is not healthy either. SO I would make a plan. IF he is on his best behaviour he may spend up to 30 minutes per night on the phone and have a visitor twice during the week for say up to 2 hours and one afternoon on the weekend. You do not go out of your way to make special treats for his visitors and the electronics remain locked up. He is the host and he can figure it out). I would also allow him to come on any full family outings on a weekend--but only if it is for the entire family.

I think that would be a good balance of showing him you are very serious and making it important without going overboard and making him feel that he is worthless and not wanting to try to rectify the situation or allowing him to build up a dangerous amount of anger and resentment towards the family.

I hope it goes without saying that therapy should be happening through all of this.