McDonalds Workers in New York Striking

[Janet Hill]

As far as unions. My DH is a union member and I am an executive in a company that is part of a collective bargaining agreement with a union. Too many people feed into the "need for unions". Im not a fan of unions in their current work model.

My DH is also a union member and is certainly not a fan (nor am I) of the current work model.

 

[Planogirl]

Luckily our local McDonald's is clean and the workers do fine. We certainly don't go often but I have no complaints.

I'm on the fence when it comes to this issue. Clearly middle class jobs are disappearing while service jobs are increasing. People take what they can get and I don't begrudge anyone trying to get more money. However I do agree that these were always entry level jobs. Are people being stuck in jobs like these the new reality that we're heading towards?

 

[Colleen27]

That's all well and good. But how does that relate to the action these workers have decided to take? How does this act get the desired results? They are attacking a company that is lawfully working within the system you described. The way to promote change would be to change the system. But that's not where there energy is focused. Why? Because they aren't trying to do what you say. They are trying to get more money for subpar work.

I don't think government solutions work. First, government isn't responsive enough to immediate concerns. We can see a wonderful example of that as our "leaders" focus all their energy on gun control while our economy continues to struggle and the problem of long-term unemployment remains an elephant in the room that no one is even discussing. Second, our electoral system ensures that representatives are beholden to large numbers of campaign contributors which creates an immediate conflict of interest regarding business regulations. I think private actions like strikes, boycotts, and viral campaigns are really the only path still accessible to the average person, and that's not going to change without serious campaign finance reform (which will never happen - the people who are the most successful at working the current system have the least incentive to change it).

But see, McDonald's and jobs such as these are not really supposed to be jobs for long time survival. They are entry jobs that work for students, retirees or people starting out. A minimum wage job should be a stepping stone. If you choose to stay there, you can't just expect to receive a wage and that is not equal to the work. Its not meant to be permanent.

Its not about permanently having an underclass, its about having temporary workers fill these positions as they educate, train, grow into higher paying jobs. A teenager that starts at McDonalds shouldn't still be flipping burgers 10 years later. These jobs are useful and needed for our economy.

That may have been the case in another era, but now those service jobs are the fastest growing sector of our economy. We've lost millions upon millions of middle class jobs that are never coming back, and the gains we've made since the recession officially ended have been mostly of the food service and retail variety. And with tens of millions of those jobs out there and an aging population, the days of filling them all with teenagers and college kids are long gone. Heck, teens in my area can't even get hired at McDonalds - unless you're available open to close, 7 days a week, they aren't interested and between school schedules and child labor rules teenagers are the most unattractive applicants of all.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I support them in their cause but do not think it will be successful in this economy. There are too many people who will take those lousy jobs. I find it very disheartening that large corporations pay their ceo's multi million dollar salaries and make enormous profits and do not pass it on to their employees. And then are comfortable with the fact that the employees make so little that they will need government assistance even if they work two full time minimum wage jobs. I agree with many of the points that the occupy wall street protestors were making. We are creating a society with an enormous gap between haves and have nots and making it difficult to make the jump. In the long term this is a foolish business model. It is a happy flourishing middle class that buys most of the products the big corps sell. Kill that and nobody will buy burgers or toyotas...
If they win the slackers will be cut because they will draw a more ambitious application pool. However, I often see very hard working fast food workers. If you have ever watched Undercover Boss you can see how difficult it is for some people to rise out of the minimum wage job trap.

 

[Bob NC]

And I don't receive the service you are describing. I can't recall the last time I went to McDonalds that they didn't get something in my order wrong. I often have to wait plenty long for my order. The restaurant is filthy and the employees act like they are doing you a favour by serving you. I'm not even sure that service like that is worth minimum wage but I guess they take who they can get.

I honestly cannot figure out why you return there.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

I can't recall the last time I went to McDonalds that they didn't get something in my order wrong.

Seriously? Every time you go they get your order wrong?

However, I don't feel people should be rewarded for nothing. You know who would end up paying for this 100% raise? Customers. All it would do would drive food prices up and keep service lousy.

Actually it would give an incentive to perform at a higher level and to be able to actually live over the poverty line. You are right that it would effect customers who would end up being the people for it but it is because of Corporate greed. Lets be perfectly honest, the locations that these workers are striking the meals cost a lot more than your average McDonalds just becaust of the high cost of living in the region. They are pulling in more money, but paying the employees the same exact pay that a low cost worker does. In order to even survive with the type of pay they do they are crammed up in a small craphole with a bunch of other people or they are working 120 hours.

But that's not really McDonalds issues. That is a government issue. So, if anyone wants to see the minimum wage raised in NY or anyone else, they have to appeal to governments not companies. And I agree that this is a low wage.

How is it not McDonalds issue when they are not paying a fair wage to their employees that bring in the cash flow for the corporation? Not to mention that how can you appeal to the goverment when you know that these big corporations are the ones actually funding the politicians to keep the minium wage low... How does an average joe actually get their voice heard without the backing of these companies who pay for the political compaigns? It all comes down to who funds them more and with the low wages fast food companies and other jobs how can they ever compete?

Obama tried to increase the wages recently but lobbyists destroyed that hope funded by large part by these corportations.

But see, McDonald's and jobs such as these are not really supposed to be jobs for long time survival. They are entry jobs that work for students, retirees or people starting out. A minimum wage job should be a stepping stone. If you choose to stay there, you can't just expect to receive a wage and that is not equal to the work. Its not meant to be permanent.

Its not about permanently having an underclass, its about having temporary workers fill these positions as they educate, train, grow into higher paying jobs. A teenager that starts at McDonalds shouldn't still be flipping burgers 10 years later. These jobs are useful and needed for our economy.

As poster Colleen27 stated, we live in a different time, and a different world now. A recent study stated that 50% of recent college grads who have college degrees are not even doing a job that requires college!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/underemployed-overeducated_n_2568203.html

Many people are being forced to take jobs like McDonalds and other entry level jobs because of the economic woes over the last decade.

Are people being stuck in jobs like these the new reality that we're heading towards?

I think it is unless goverment policy changes with the outsourcing infastructure.

 

[Janet Hill]

Many people are being forced to take jobs like McDonalds and other entry level jobs because of the economic woes over the last decade.



I think it is unless goverment policy changes with the outsourcing infastructure.

Or perhpas the government could cut the corp tax rate. The US has the highest so why wouldn't a company want to take their production offshore.

 

[FlyingDumbo]

If they get your order wrong every single time, you might be part of the problem. Either you mumble, or order something complicated with special changes. Because even the worst place on earth would get it right once in a while by sheer luck and odds.

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

Or perhpas the government could cut the corp tax rate. The US has the highest so why wouldn't a company want to take their production offshore.

I don't think that would change a thing. People are greedy, and they would use some type of excuse to take as much money as possible. Look at how much they bring in. Cuts to taxes will just increase their inflow of money while they pay their employees the same, and keep the jobs overseas.

If they get your order wrong every single time, you might be part of the problem. Either you mumble, or order something complicated with special changes. Because even the worst place on earth would get it right once in a while by sheer luck and odds.

I do not believe it myself. I would not go to a place if I was treated that horrible every single time I went.

 

[Acklander]

Or perhpas the government could cut the corp tax rate. The US has the highest so why wouldn't a company want to take their production offshore.

They have already cut the corporate tax rate. Trickle down economics. Unfortunately, it didn't trickle Down. Instead the income gap between the top and the worker bees grew larger AND the taxpayers are required to pick up the slack on crap wages by providing food stamps to those who dont earn enough.

 

[Colleen27]

Or perhpas the government could cut the corp tax rate. The US has the highest so why wouldn't a company want to take their production offshore.

Very few big players actually pay that rate, so lowering it wouldn't change their hiring or compensation policies.

I'm for lowering that rate, but not because I think it'll mean Walmart and McDonalds will decide to pass the savings along in the form of better wages for the rank and file. I think it needs to be lowered because right now it represents a system that the Walmarts of the country play to their advantage. High corporate rates hit upstart competitors hard, while the big established corps have armies of lawyers and accountants finding every loophole and tax shelter to keep their effective rate much lower. For all the talk of business wanting a free market, the fact is that in our country taxation and regulation are effectively used to suppress entrepreneurship and competition and as such are supported by many large corporations.

 

[joviroxx]

You're thinking old school, and yes - this is the way it's supposed to be. But it isn't the reality today. A majority of the jobs lost during the recession were the middle class jobs (those higher paying jobs you're supposed to work/train/educate yourself towards) and the majority of the jobs created during the recovery go for less than 10$ an hour. These are the new permanent jobs. The scary part??? It's going to get worst. There are companies pushing the politicians (that they donated big $$$ to) to get rid of minimum wage, and get rid of overtime pay for over 40 hours a week. That is the agenda that is currently being worked on as we speak. So yes, unions are still relevant and still important.

The reality today is that we are in tough economic times, but the the worthiness of a job is just that. You can't just go and raise pay for a job that isn't "worth" that rate because people need money and jobs are scarce. We need to fix the issues not cover the effects.

That may have been the case in another era, but now those service jobs are the fastest growing sector of our economy. We've lost millions upon millions of middle class jobs that are never coming back, and the gains we've made since the recession officially ended have been mostly of the food service and retail variety. And with tens of millions of those jobs out there and an aging population, the days of filling them all with teenagers and college kids are long gone. Heck, teens in my area can't even get hired at McDonalds - unless you're available open to close, 7 days a week, they aren't interested and between school schedules and child labor rules teenagers are the most unattractive applicants of all.

Like I said above, its not another era. Its a rough time. DH, lost his job when the recession started. He had to take any work in the meantime. He is a pipefitter. At night he worked on his welding skills and had to remake himself. The temporary jobs were just that, temporary. He was able to "reinvent himself" to get reemployed. But the temporary work he was doing shouldn't have been paid at a higher rate just because times were tough,.

How is it not McDonalds issue when they are not paying a fair wage to their employees that bring in the cash flow for the corporation?

And what is a fair wage? Its great to talk about higher wages, but at the end of the day, higher wages will bring higher consumer prices. Every year our technicians get a pay raise that is negotiated in the collective bargaining agreement. Guess what? Every year, we raise our labor rates to our customers....

As poster Colleen27 stated, we live in a different time, and a different world now. A recent study stated that 50% of recent college grads who have college degrees are not even doing a job that requires college!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/underemployed-overeducated_n_2568203.html

Not a fan of the Huffington Post, so I didn't read the article but yes, we have many more college graduates. And I won't go into the state of college educations, defaulted loans, high tuition rates because the discussion will just blow up. I will just say that just like the housing market blew up because of the thinking that everyone should be able to own a home regardless, the same thing is going to happen to higher education.

Many people are being forced to take jobs like McDonalds and other entry level jobs because of the economic woes over the last decade.
.

Of course but we need to fix THAT issue, not just raise pay rates.

 

[Colleen27]

The reality today is that we are in tough economic times, but the the worthiness of a job is just that. You can't just go and raise pay for a job that isn't "worth" that rate because people need money and jobs are scarce. We need to fix the issues not cover the effects.


Like I said above, its not another era. Its a rough time. DH, lost his job when the recession started. He had to take any work in the meantime. He is a pipefitter. At night he worked on his welding skills and had to remake himself. The temporary jobs were just that, temporary. He was able to "reinvent himself" to get reemployed. But the temporary work he was doing shouldn't have been paid at a higher rate just because times were tough,.

Higher wages for lower end jobs are a fix for that issue. The issue, or at least one facet of it, is the fact that wages for the "ownership" class (for lack of a better descriptor) are increasing disproportionately while the "working" class (again, not the most accurate term but you know what it means) is not seeing any wage gains despite increasing productivity and growth.

This is a bit dry, but it is a good scholarly review of the subject with some striking visuals. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2011/01/art3full.pdf Note the charts regarding productivity and wages, and the one about labor's share of total economic output. This is a new era, one in which the notion that a business has no responsibility to treat workers well, contribute to the community, or even respect the environment because all of those things come at the expense of profits. And the link only deals with data up to 2010 - it doesn't reflect the even more alarming numbers dealing with the so-called recovery. Wages for the bottom 90% of American workers fell by twice as much in the "recovery" years than during the downturn, and the top 10% of earners are the only to see any income growth at all since 2007.

And the bad economy isn't to blame. Profits are rising and the stock market has rebounded well, but none of that is trickling down to higher wages.

ETA: History has proven that austerity is not the way to create jobs. We have a consumer based economy. The most effective way to get it going again is to start rebuilding the spending capacity of the consumer class. It has been falling for decades, but those declines were masked by easy credit for so long that when the housing bubble popped and lending got a big ol' sanity check we suddenly got to see a mess that has been in the making since the 80s. No tax cut will convince businesses to hire employees they don't need, open stores that won't turn a profit, or manufacture items for which there is no market, so tax cuts just put more money in the pockets of the already wealthy without addressing the core issue - that a consumer economy needs consumer confidence and spending to grow.

 

[World Showcaser]

I honestly cannot figure out why you return there.

I return to McDonalds because I am poor. McDonalds is cheap. McDonalds also is attractive to children. Occasionally, my preschooler likes to go out to eat and play in the Playland. I take him there. Occasionally, we find ourselves on the road without any cheaper or more convenient options. That's the beauty of McDonalds, right? They have a captive audience like me that has not a lot of choice but to eat in their restaurants. That's why they don't have to train their workers if they don't feel like it. That's why they don't have to even hire competent workers in the first place.

I know a lot of you have a very hard time believing for some reason that I have received subpar service from McDonalds but it's true! I know half the people in this thread think that McDonalds employees are the hardest working, most skilled, friendliest, most deserving workers on the planet but I disagree. I am allowed to disagree. Apparently, McDonalds disagrees too or they would be paying them more money.

Seriously? Every time you go they get your order wrong?

No. I was exaggerating. It's a literary device used to make a point.

How is it not McDonalds issue when they are not paying a fair wage to their employees that bring in the cash flow for the corporation?

It is not their issue because they do not determine what the minimum fair wage is. That is up to the government. It is furthermore up to the people to keep the government accountable. So, if you feel so passionately about the minimum wage being problematic, why not go out into the streets or join an existing movement that is working to change this.

My point was not that I think that minimum wage is fair; my point was that working at McDonalds is a minimum wage job. McDonalds is fully within its rights and the law to pay its workers minimum wage.

And I don't need graphs to make that point. It's common sense.

 

[Luv'sTink]

Sigh...my local McD's gets my order wrong probably 60% of the time. The little paper they stick to the burger for special orders (onions only) is correct but the burger has ketchup, mustard and pickles on it, usually no onions

I go back because it's cheap and they always fix it, but that doesn't mean it isn't irritating.

WA. has the highest minimum wage in the country at $9.19, still not enough for a living wage.

 

[World Showcaser]

Sigh...my local McD's gets my order wrong probably 60% of the time. The little paper they stick to the burger for special orders (onions only) is correct but the burger has ketchup, mustard and pickles on it, usually no onions

I go back because it's cheap and they always fix it, but that doesn't mean it isn't irritating.

Exactly. The funny thing is, I don't do any special orders. I order things exactly as they are listed on the menu. At least 50% of the time, they forget to give me a straw in the drive-thru. Now, I do pull up and check my order so I catch it, but what's the point of using the drive-thru if you then have to go in to fix it. They almost never remember sauce for nuggets. And I've been served ice cold fries many many times. Like you say, they will fix it (although they're never really apologetic) but that's not the point.

 

[angwill]

Heard on the news this morning that McDonalds workers in New York City are striking. They make minimum wage (not sure of the exact amount, but it's over $7/hour) and what do they want? Double that!!

Seriously? Good grief!

I can understand a small yearly raise, but to double it? Ridiculous. If they want more money, go to college, learn a skill and get a better paying job.

I rarely support anyone on strike, and sure don't support this one at all.

How can anyone live in New York and make mimimum wage? They can't. Then the McDonald's worker can go collect welfare and everyone else in America can work to pay taxes to provide for them. Shouldn't McDonald's, a wealthy company, be responsible to pay them a living wage instead of everyone else supplimenting them?

 

[MouseketeerMMC]

I return to McDonalds because I am poor. McDonalds is cheap. McDonalds also is attractive to children. Occasionally, my preschooler likes to go out to eat and play in the Playland. I take him there. Occasionally, we find ourselves on the road without any cheaper or more convenient options. That's the beauty of McDonalds, right? They have a captive audience like me that has not a lot of choice but to eat in their restaurants. That's why they don't have to train their workers if they don't feel like it. That's why they don't have to even hire competent workers in the first place.

You have other options and I hate to break it to you, but... you can get much better quality food offerings at local restaurants for around the same price if not cheaper! If a restraurant gave me poor service the majority of the time I would not give them my business. As long as you are giving them your money, things will NEVER change!

I know a lot of you have a very hard time believing for some reason that I have received subpar service from McDonalds but it's true! I know half the people in this thread think that McDonalds employees are the hardest working, most skilled, friendliest, most deserving workers on the planet but I disagree. I am allowed to disagree. Apparently, McDonalds disagrees too or they would be paying them more money.

Most people do not think that hardest working, most skilled, friendliest, most deserving workers. What people in this thread believe is that a Corporation that brings in the amount of money they do, should pay a FAIR wage!

You stated that you are poor, so I really do not see why you would think an employee would need to work two to three jobs to be able to provide for himself. Would you rather have people just go to well fare?

It is not their issue because they do not determine what the minimum fair wage is. That is up to the government. It is furthermore up to the people to keep the government accountable. So, if you feel so passionately about the minimum wage being problematic, why not go out into the streets or join an existing movement that is working to change this.

As I stated in my other post, and if you read it, you would understand the problem with your above statement and how incorrect and wrong you are. These corporations fund these policitians for there compaigns and in return get kickbacks with whatever they want. As long as multi-millionaires, and billionaires are able to lobby politicians nothing will ever change.

The average joe doesn't have the bankroll to compete against corporations and the suits within them. All of this should be common sense to you.

My point was not that I think that minimum wage is fair; my point was that working at McDonalds is a minimum wage job. McDonalds is fully within its rights and the law to pay its workers minimum wage.

As others have pointed out such as myself, times are changing, these entry level jobs are now being filled by non high school, college, and young adults. People are taking jobs just to being able to pay their mortgage, and put food on their table. We live in a different time, and this is the new normal.

Yes McDonalds is within their rights, just like how Exxon could jack up the price to $20 a gallon on gas. And no complaining right? When your kid screams to go to McDonalds, or when your husband loses his job because he can not afford to go to work because it is no longer worth it, and you lose your house, and your homeless, because they are allowed to do it, their is nothing wrong with that correct?

The pay these people are making in a place where the cost of living is atleast double to triple what they are making compared to what the corporate suits are making is why these people went on strike. They just want a living wage!

How can anyone live in New York and make mimimum wage? They can't. Then the McDonald's worker can go collect welfare and everyone else in America can work to pay taxes to provide for them. Shouldn't McDonald's, a wealthy company, be responsible to pay them a living wage instead of everyone else supplimenting them?

Yes this is beyond me Angwill. It is impossible to do so. Even living in a low cost area, minimum wage still is not enough to get by on. But apparently there are people out there that do not see what the reprecussions are.

But McDonalds does not care. All they care about is keeping expenses low for their shareholders.

 

[joviroxx]

You do realize that most employers are not mulit million dollar corporations. Small businesses pay minimum wage as well. Flipping burgers is flipping burgers. Are you saying that high profit companies should be forced to pay a higher minimum wage ? What about burger flippers at a smaller mom&pop? The worthiness of a job is the worthiness of a job. Now, if the company CHOOSES to pay higher, its up to them, but what you pay your employees shouldn't be mandated according to how much profit you make.

 

[joviroxx]

Most people do not think that hardest working, most skilled, friendliest, most deserving workers. What people in this thread believe is that a Corporation that brings in the amount of money they do, should pay a FAIR wage!

Again, if its a fair wage for the mom & pop store , its a fair wage for Mcdonalds. Or is the question that its not fair because higher ups make so much money? If that's the case, then it has nothing to do with what the "job" is worth, just the fact that the profits are shared and spread out enough.

You stated that you are poor, so I really do not see why you would think an employee would need to work two to three jobs to be able to provide for himself. Would you rather have people just go to well fare?

Same issue.

As others have pointed out such as myself, times are changing, these entry level jobs are now being filled by non high school, college, and young adults. People are taking jobs just to being able to pay their mortgage, and put food on their table. We live in a different time, and this is the new normal.

Yes McDonalds is within their rights, just like how Exxon could jack up the price to $20 a gallon on gas. And no complaining right? When your kid screams to go to McDonalds, or when your husband loses his job because he can not afford to go to work because it is no longer worth it, and you lose your house, and your homeless, because they are allowed to do it, their is nothing wrong with that correct?

The pay these people are making in a place where the cost of living is atleast double to triple what they are making compared to what the corporate suits are making is why these people went on strike. They just want a living wage!



Yes this is beyond me Angwill. It is impossible to do so. Even living in a low cost area, minimum wage still is not enough to get by on. But apparently there are people out there that do not see what the reprecussions are.

So again, how do you suggest smaller corporations deal with paying their employees? How should they decide what to pay? Surely , you can't expect them to have the same financial ability to pay their employees? So do we go to a system where its not the "job" that is worth the pay but where the job is? So the same work would legallydemand different pay based on the profits of the company?

There are plenty of busboys, fry cooks, cashiers working for small companies, making minimum wage that aren't striking saying they deserve more. Tell Uncle Joe who owns the corner grill that.

But McDonalds does not care. All they care about is keeping expenses low for their shareholders.

As they should. Those shareholders invest . They need those shareholders or they can't operate. If they pull their money, no more McDonalds and then no more jobs....