Making sense out of insanity (DVC purchase)

[DougEMG]

I know it's not a very popular opinion around here but I don't think people should go on vacation if they can't afford it (without financing it including CC not paid off when the bill arives), much less take on a long term expensive commitment.

I agree with you, Dean.

We originally went to WDW staying off site, then moved to value resorts, then moderate resorts, skipped the deluxe resorts and then eventually bought DVC. We didn't buy DVC till we had no other debit and that includes having no mortgage and only once i was convinced i would have a fast break even on my purchase of DVC, which for me was 6-7 years.

DVC is a long term luxury purchase. If you aren't comfortable making that commitment now, wait a few years till your finances are in better shape, DVC will still be there.

You don't need to own DVC to enjoy going to WDW.

 

[JessB320]

We LOVE bonnet creek!! BUT Don't buy into their sales pitch!!! If you decide to buy into the wyndam timeshare you can buy contracts off of eBay for a few hundred dollars (including all fees/closing costs) I know you are looking at DVC so just a warning wyndam can be pretty persuasive when you are actually there, and if you have already been thinking about timeshares in general.... You see where I'm going

 

[DougEMG]

OP here- great discussion everyone. I think even with kids bonnet creek is ok because it is on site. It is closer to Epcot and Hollywood Studios than Okw, SSR, and Port Orleans. I would rather stay in a Disney resort for that intangible magical feeling, but because a 1 bedroom DVC sooo much more expensive it just is hard to stomach.

Our April trip will cost us $514 for 6 nights at 1 bedroom suite at bonnet creek. Seventh night is free at swan/dolphin from credit card points. Rental car and flights are free because of credit card points. Two five day park tickets are $540 from undercover tourist. I figure another $700 for food (planning to eat 5 nice dinners). So our vacation cost about $1,800 for a week.

The packages for a 1 bedroom with park tickets with 30% off room right now is $3,373 at Okw. That's more than $2200 more to stay at a dvc resort that's farther from the parks than bonnet creek!

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

So now you see exactly why DVC is a luxury purchase. Enjoy your trip in April and all that money you saved over staying at OKW.

 

[Sammie]

OP here- great discussion everyone. I think even with kids bonnet creek is ok because it is on site. It is closer to Epcot and Hollywood Studios than Okw, SSR, and Port Orleans. I would rather stay in a Disney resort for that intangible magical feeling, but because a 1 bedroom DVC sooo much more expensive it just is hard to stomach.

Our April trip will cost us $514 for 6 nights at 1 bedroom suite at bonnet creek. Seventh night is free at swan/dolphin from credit card points. Rental car and flights are free because of credit card points. Two five day park tickets are $540 from undercover tourist. I figure another $700 for food (planning to eat 5 nice dinners). So our vacation cost about $1,800 for a week.

The packages for a 1 bedroom with park tickets with 30% off room right now is $3,373 at Okw. That's more than $2200 more to stay at a dvc resort that's farther from the parks than bonnet creek!

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

Bonnet Creek is a great resort and will definitely save money but it is not closer to all the parks than OKW.

 

[myxdvz]

I feel like Disney is getting outrageous with it's prices and only gets away with it because people don't understand you can have an excellent Disney experience without paying Disney prices.

I'm not going to dispute the outrageous prices. But as with anything, it is supply and demand. Even with it's outrageous prices, they are still filling the parks, and thus resorting to a FP+ solution (or whatever the impetus is) and other ways to manage the crowd.

Anyways, I guess my point is that I don't believe that people "don't understand". I believe it is a conscious choice that people are making. After all, excellent experience is very subjective - it's more an emotional choice than a rational or financial choice.

Some people feel it is worth the extra price to have the whole experience. And some people feel that the same experience can be had without paying the Disney prices. Both are ok.

It's like saying people don't understand that you can still get to your destination driving a Corolla vs a Camaro/Porsche. I think people understand, but are making personal subjective decisions.

 

[lovin'fl]

I don't know what Bonnet Creek is...well I know a little now from this thread and going on their website...but is there a trick to getting a great rate? I put in a week in July (when we may be going for a softball tourney at WWoS and not for the parks) and it's $1428 with AAA discount for a 1 bedroom suite. No thanks! OP- how did you get that rate...even with the non-refundable 25% off it's still about $200/night in April. Is that rate for agreeing to go to a timeshare talk?

 

[myxdvz]

I don't know what Bonnet Creek is...well I know a little now from this thread and going on their website...but is there a trick to getting a great rate? I put in a week in July (when we may be going for a softball tourney at WWoS and not for the parks) and it's $1428 with AAA discount for a 1 bedroom suite. No thanks! OP- how did you get that rate...even with the non-refundable 25% off it's still about $200/night in April. Is that rate for agreeing to go to a timeshare talk?

Or maybe renting from Wyndham owners?

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again", which surprised me coz I've read good reviews here at DIS.

 

[k3chantal]

I love Disney, and I could see myself taking a trip there every year until infinity. I should be a perfect candidate for the DVC, I'm 27 and married 3 years in April. DVC should provide vacation for my wife and I and future children for decades to come.

160 points, purchased resale at Old Key West price $60 per point ~$10,000
maintenance fees per year ~ $850

I could rent 160 points from an owner at $11 per point and pay $1,760. DVC ownership saves me $910 ($1,760-$850 main fees) a year, but only after approx. 11 years have passed. If we use it until 2057, that nets a savings of close to $30,000. (33 years of only paying main. fees on 160 points).

Am I missing something here, or is it that good of a deal? Here's the main hang up I have, I don't have $10,000 to lay out. I'd have to borrow the money, and that adds to the cost. At 10% APR on $10,000, that's $132 a month for 10 years, making the purchase price more like $15,840 and making my projected savings to be about $24,000 once we reach the contract's end in 2057 saving us $545 a year vs renting points at $11 per point.

Is it worth laying out all that money and making that much of a commitment to save a maximum $545 a year for 44 years? (probably much less considering increases in maintenance fees)

Realistically, I don't think I'll be able to get a personal loan to pay $10,000 off over 10 years, so I'd have to buy direct from DVC at $16,000 for 160 OKW points in order to get financing. At that point it's $211 per month for 10 years making my DVC cost for the first 10 years $25,320 + 44 years of main. fees ($37,400).

That's $62,720 for 44 years of 160 points at current main. fees. That's $8.90 per point saving $2.10 per point vs renting at $11 per point. Over 44 years that saves $14,784 or $336 a year.

On one hand, over 44 years I will be saving money, not losing money- even with financing the purchase. On the other hand, it's a huge commitment and 44 years is an eternity. Not borrowing to purchase DVC would net me the max savings ($910 per year on average). Not sure if I'll be able to swing that though.

Do my numbers make sense? What do most of you project your cost per point to be over the life your DVC contract? Ever wish you could get out of it altogether and just rent points when you want?

Guess I am a non- trusting person. I would not want to ever just get out of it and rent points when I want. I like the control of having my own points; I like playing with the different ways I can use them; I like fantasizing about the future vacations I know I will take; in all the different combinations I can configure. I like knowing that I am guaranteed an opportunity to make a reservation at resorts I previous would never have entertained visiting and that each of my family members will have a fantastic time while there.

With all of that said and with absolutely no regret with my purchase, I would never finance this purchase. This is certainly not about saving money. Regardless of how the purchase is made you will spend more money on Disney and vacationing there if you have DVC. Why? See my above paragraph. If you are thinking about financing this purchase that means that you don't have the cash available to buy it outright and thus the finance charges will make this luxury purchase even more expensive.

I think to be a satisfied DVC owner you need to make enough money where every dime is not analyzed and stressed over where it is going. Of course there are those, here on this forum, who love to crunch the numbers. That is a very different scenario. I don't know any of their financial situations but I have a feeling, that they find the number crunching and justification of buying resale satisfying and it is done not only to try to save money but to pat themselves on the back that they got the most of their purchase. I would like to believe this is not because they have to be so prudent.

So I would go ahead and love Disney and take your yearly trips and I would go ahead and try to save the money (not a bad idea anyway). If after you have enough cash to buy it outright and you still are interested in DVC, then I would consider it because only then will it really feel right.

 

[ELMC]

I think to be a satisfied DVC owner you need to make enough money where every dime is not analyzed and stressed over where it is going. Of course there are those, here on this forum, who love to crunch the numbers. That is a very different scenario. I don't know any of their financial situations but I have a feeling, that they find the number crunching and justification of buying resale satisfying and it is done not only to try to save money but to pat themselves on the back that they got the most of their purchase. I would like to believe this is not because they have to be so prudent.

Very insightful and not that far from the truth.

 

[JimMIA]

Wyndham Bonnet Creek:

1. As Sammie said, it is NOT closer to Epcot than OKW or MK. But it's not that much farther away -- a matter of 2-3 minutes drive time. It IS somewhat closer to DHS and AK. They also have free scheduled bus service to all theme parks and DTD.
2. If staying at WBC, renting from an owner is the key to low rates. 1 BR's are typically <$600 per week and 2 BR's are typically <$900 per week. They also have 3 & 4 BRs. (And no, we don't rent our Wyndham points)
3. Wyndham sales presentations (at any Wyndham resort) should be avoided at all cost. You don't need the parking pass they use to lure you to the sales weasels, the incentives are not worth the time, and Wyndham sales tactics are among the sleeziest in a sleezy industry. They will absolutely tell blatant lies; there is NOTHING they won't tell you to get you to buy. And...they won't let you leave until you say yes.
   
   Wyndham is a very nice timeshare system, but their sales force really is rotten. They are a terrible reflection on an otherwise great company.
   
   And, you can buy Wyndham for virtually nothing on eBay.

 

[crisi]

Very insightful and not that far from the truth.

Well off people are often those that are frugal and enjoy things like crunching numbers - that's one of the inputs to gaining net worth

 

[JimMIA]

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again", which surprised me coz I've read good reviews here at DIS.

I haven't seen very many negative comments about the resort.

I have seen many negative comments about their sales force (richly deserved), and I've had a couple of brief skirmishes with them. Some Tuggers go to the sales presentations just to torment the sales weasels -- it's kind of a blood sport for them.

WBC is a very nice resort with many amenities. The only negative for us is that it is pretty large (+/- 1200 units + the hotel) and some of the pools can be pretty crowded at times. Despite that, we really like WBC and would never hesitate to stay there.

It should also be said that although WBC gets a lot of mention on the DIS because of its convenience, there are a number of other VERY nice resorts not very far offsite.

 

[blackacex2]

OP again.

I think if more people knew about how beautiful and excellent bonnet creek is, they would think twice about paying disney prices. Not everyone, but a lot of people have no idea that it is an excellent option. It is NOTHING like staying on I-Drive and feels more "on property" than saratoga springs IMHO. I would never stay even as far away as the mariott world center or the hyatt because they are just too disconnected from "the world"

I was able to get $85.50 a night by going through booking.com. The Wyndham website offers awful deals and should be avoided. Ebay etc. is an option too.

We have been there three years in a row and we have had nothing but excellent experiences. Never once had high pressure timeshare sales, never once had anything but a spotless beautiful room. We stayed 3 nights at wilderness lodge club level to break things up and we immediately missed our bonnet creek room. I loved wilderness lodge for its restaurants, boat to MK, and gorgeous lobby. All those things can be enjoyed (in a limited way) by just visiting the resort and having dinner.

In fact, staying at a disney resort would actually mean sacrificing a lot of the nice things about bonnet creek beyond just price because the resort has a lot to offer. I'm just talking more "common sense" than "in love with Disney magic" sense because despite knowing how great Bonnet Creek is and needing to finance DVC I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

 

[Missyrose]

OP again.

I think if more people knew about how beautiful and excellent bonnet creek is, they would think twice about paying disney prices. Not everyone, but a lot of people have no idea that it is an excellent option. It is NOTHING like staying on I-Drive and feels more "on property" than saratoga springs IMHO. I would never stay even as far away as the mariott world center or the hyatt because they are just too disconnected from "the world"

I was able to get $85.50 a night by going through booking.com. The Wyndham website offers awful deals and should be avoided. Ebay etc. is an option too.

We have been there three years in a row and we have had nothing but excellent experiences. Never once had high pressure timeshare sales, never once had anything but a spotless beautiful room. We stayed 3 nights at wilderness lodge club level to break things up and we immediately missed our bonnet creek room. I loved wilderness lodge for its restaurants, boat to MK, and gorgeous lobby. All those things can be enjoyed (in a limited way) by just visiting the resort and having dinner.

In fact, staying at a disney resort would actually mean sacrificing a lot of the nice things about bonnet creek beyond just price because the resort has a lot to offer. I'm just talking more "common sense" than "in love with Disney magic" sense because despite knowing how great Bonnet Creek is and needing to finance DVC I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

Don't discount the Mariott timeshares at the World Center. We stayed at Imperial Palms a few years ago and had shorter rides to the parks than when we stayed at AKL!

 

[Brian Noble]

One of our family "in-jokes" is how often we drive *past* the Bonnet Creek entrance to get between OKW and some other location. Inevitably, someone pipes up with "If you were staying here, you'd be home by now!"

From TUG, Bonnet Creek sure is polarizing. I've read some people use the word "sucks" and "will never go there again",

There is one TUGger who tends to post this on almost any Bonnet Creek thread they can find. And, they did have a not-great experience. There might be a few others here and there. But, it definitely is the exception. I'm sure we can find equivalent posts for any of the DVC resorts here on DISboards.

I wrote this already, but Bonnet really is quite a bit more similar to our DVC stays than it has been different. Our family ranked it about on par with OKW, but a notch below BWV, BCV, or VWL. The question is: how much is that notch worth, and is that where you want to spend your money?

I STILL am considering it because the idea of staying at a studio at bay lake tower or beach club appeals to my emotions more than to my logic.

Well, emotions are Disney's stock in trade.

 

[Dean]

Bonnet Creek is definitely a very nice resort. Ultimately it comes down to what's important and what one is willing (able) to pay for. It is my opinion that many who stay at Disney and who tout they wouldn't stay anywhere else, don't have sufficient knowledge/experience to make a truly informed decision. They've experienced Disney/DVC and maybe motel 6 or similar off property. The truth is that to many and in many ways, there are resorts that are every bit as nice and in some ways nicer, than any/all DVC resorts. For those that have the knowledge to make an informed decision, there are plenty on both sides of the fence. There are many who truly prefer staying off property. There are a number of timeshares around that are functionally as close as the DVC resorts for those driving (we do except for MK). I know some will split hairs on this issue but for many it's really not a problem.

Personally we prefer on property for purely emotional/feel reasons but when we stay off property we enjoy other aspects and never find ourselves wishing we were on property. For some they are able/comfortable avoiding a car but we would not be in our situation.

 

[crisi]

Bonnet Creek is definitely a very nice resort. Ultimately it comes down to what's important and what one is willing (able) to pay for. It is my opinion that many who stay at Disney and who tout they wouldn't stay anywhere else, don't have sufficient knowledge/experience to make a truly informed decision. They've experienced Disney/DVC and maybe motel 6 or similar off property. The truth is that to many and in many ways, there are resorts that are every bit as nice and in some ways nicer, than any/all DVC resorts. For those that have the knowledge to make an informed decision, there are plenty on both sides of the fence. There are many who truly prefer staying off property. There are a number of timeshares around that are functionally as close as the DVC resorts for those driving (we do except for MK). I know some will split hairs on this issue but for many it's really not a problem.

Personally we prefer on property for purely emotional/feel reasons but when we stay off property we enjoy other aspects and never find ourselves wishing we were on property. For some they are able/comfortable avoiding a car but we would not be in our situation.

I used to be an onsite snob. Now I've stayed in some nice spots off site and am less of an onsite snob - and other spots around Orlando have figured out that themeing sells. And I'm actually now a little too much of a hotel snob to be delighted by Disney hotels or DVC (duvets will help, its the change I'm most excited about in the decade we've owned). But we don't like renting a car, and we have teenagers - so our Disney trips involve the family splitting off. That's one really nice thing for a few years about DVC or any other onsite stay.

 

[Sammie]

We have visited Bonnet Creek and the entire complex is nice but it is not what we want when we go to Disney World.

If we were coming to Orlando, to go to Sea World, Universal and WDW, maybe yes.

If going to Disney World, we want to stay with Disney. Are their resorts the best we have ever experienced, absolutely not but location means everything to us and the benefits of room charging, different means of transportation, walking to parks, EMH is worth the cost.

We hardly ever use our car when at WDW, we truly do enjoy the on resort transportation options.

 

[dvc at last !]

subbing - to read later

 

[blackacex2]

Sounds like it's pretty split down the middle between people who will stay nowhere but on-site and those that think bonnet creek or similar is a viable option for a great disney world vacation.

I'm still torn between the two options. A 1 bedroom at BWV for 6 nights is currently $2,911 with a spring discount. We are going to be paying about $580 for bonnet creek which offers larger rooms and similar amenities and is a 2.5 minute drive from the boardwalk.

I guess I'm just not rich enough to afford deluxe disney, because man, you've GOT to be loaded to be spending an extra $2,300 (in most cases MORE) to stay at a disney branded hotel. I fear my dream of staying at the contemporary will never happen if prices stay this high. ($450/night or more).