Mait fees - scary

[jlovesee]

We own 213 points and pay about $100 a month in maintenance fees, it may not work for everyone but by breaking it up in monthly installments it's a lot easier to think about than $1200 a year!

Jennifer

 

[Kim Gillihan]

All any of us can do is bring up various components and what we would do in a given situation, you'll have to absorb it and make your own decisions. And since none of us truly know all the preferences and thought processes anyone is going through, it's not going to be a perfect recommendation. It's easier to say what not to do rather than what to do such as don't buy for cash exchanges (DCL, etc), don't buy retail except in limited situations or don't finance. That said, here are a few thoughts. I feel one should spend enough time and have enough Disney, DVC & timeshare experience to make an informed decision. To me that's around 6 months of active investigation for someone new to the specifics of DVC and at least some Disney & DVC experience. The more other timeshare and the more Disney experience one has, the better decision one can make.

One who has deluxe experience can make a better decision than one who only has value experience. One who has DVC experience, can make a better decision than one who doesn't. One who has a fair amount of other timeshare experience and some Disney experience is likely OK. One who goes one trip and buys DVC with no timeshare experience, has debt and finances DVC is simply playing Russian Roulette.

Going from hotel rooms or studios to a 1 BR is a big jump in price, not so much from 2 rooms to a 2 BR. It simply falls under the idea of added value over savings. IMO it's rare for one to save much with the extra facilities but common for people to justify it that way. As for AKV vs SSR, I don't think you can go wrong with either. SSR will be cheaper and I personally feel getting in to AKV Kidani won't be that difficult but it may require using the wait list at times. Maybe you should stay at SSR first if you haven't. IF you buy SSR and it doesn't work out, you can always sell later with minimal loss. I would strongly suggest deciding what you want in terms of UY, home resort and number of points rather than letting the "best contract" drive your choices. Once you do that, just set out to find and act on that contract when you find it. Or one could buy less points at SSR and try it out then maybe buy elsewhere later (?AKV) as an add on or sell and buy elsewhere if it doesn't.

Dean, thank you. Lots to think about. That use year is my main issue right now.

 

[Dean]

Dean, thank you. Lots to think about. That use year is my main issue right now.

IMO it's an important one and if you can't work out a good one realize you're taking more risk than if you could.

 

[crisi]

I really don't worry about maintenance fees - they are substantially cheaper than rooms at Disney. However, I do worry about the extra expenses involved in the DVC commitment.

We don't live close enough to drive - airfare can be a really big deal - and uncontrollable.
Park tickets have increased at an incredible rate, plus starting with kids that didn't even need tickets and have now been Disney adults for YEARS - and it costs me as much - or more - in park tickets as it does for the dues.
Food at Disney has not gotten cheaper over the years we've been - and feeding two teens gets expensive. Dining out is a big part of our vacation experience - but it really adds to the cost.

 

[MrPTato]

We own 213 points and pay about $100 a month in maintenance fees, it may not work for everyone but by breaking it up in monthly installments it's a lot easier to think about than $1200 a year!

Jennifer

This is what I do...I break it out to 12 months and auto move that money into a DVC Maint Fees account. When they are due, I slide them back over and pay the bill. No thought needed and no sticker shock when the bill come in.

 

[Dean]

I really don't worry about maintenance fees - they are substantially cheaper than rooms at Disney. However, I do worry about the extra expenses involved in the DVC commitment.

We don't live close enough to drive - airfare can be a really big deal - and uncontrollable.
Park tickets have increased at an incredible rate, plus starting with kids that didn't even need tickets and have now been Disney adults for YEARS - and it costs me as much - or more - in park tickets as it does for the dues.
Food at Disney has not gotten cheaper over the years we've been - and feeding two teens gets expensive. Dining out is a big part of our vacation experience - but it really adds to the cost.

IMO one should consider the long term commitment and risk but if the long term expense is a true concern, one likely shouldn't buy but also likely shouldn't plan to go to WDW and stay on property.

 

[crisi]

IMO one should consider the long term commitment and risk but if the long term expense is a true concern, one likely shouldn't buy but also likely shouldn't plan to go to WDW and stay on property.

The thing about staying on property is that some years for some people are good, and some are marginal, without being bad. I grew up with a father who was a salesperson. Some years we had lots of money, some years we had enough to get by. That's a fine lifestyle for planning on going to Disney once in a while (my parents spent there money other places) and staying on site - but not necessarily a good one for owning DVC with its annual (or thereabouts) commitment to all the additional expenses of Disney. Small business owners often have the same "up year, down year" income.

The real worry IMHO is income stagnation with a DVC contract. Disney gets more expensive every year - they even raised ticket prices during the recession. But for most people, they are lucky to see a 3% annual raise. If DVC kind of fits in your budget now, unless you are in a salary growth position (finishing medical school for instance, or a spouse about to go back to work kids go to school) or in an expense decrease position (last college bill paid), five years down the road the tickets/airfare/meals portion of Disney can get quite burdensome.

 

[Dean]

The thing about staying on property is that some years for some people are good, and some are marginal, without being bad. I grew up with a father who was a salesperson. Some years we had lots of money, some years we had enough to get by. That's a fine lifestyle for planning on going to Disney once in a while (my parents spent there money other places) and staying on site - but not necessarily a good one for owning DVC with its annual (or thereabouts) commitment to all the additional expenses of Disney. Small business owners often have the same "up year, down year" income.

The real worry IMHO is income stagnation with a DVC contract. Disney gets more expensive every year - they even raised ticket prices during the recession. But for most people, they are lucky to see a 3% annual raise. If DVC kind of fits in your budget now, unless you are in a salary growth position (finishing medical school for instance, or a spouse about to go back to work kids go to school) or in an expense decrease position (last college bill paid), five years down the road the tickets/airfare/meals portion of Disney can get quite burdensome.

While none of us truly know what the future holds, a lot of the aspects can be predicted with reasonable reliability. IF one has a situation where there may be issues, such as a volatile income, buying in may be a bad choice just due to the risk even if it costs more on a year by year basis. If incomes in general stagnate, I think we can reliably predict so will Disney's prices though it may take them a few years to catch up.

 

[crisi]

It isn't about volatility of incomes - its about your income keeping pace with Disney inflation. Volatility is a factor - and most people with volatile incomes probably shouldn't consider the sort of commitment to annual dues DVC represents, but even if you have a steady salary job - if DVC is a stretch at the point of purchase, most Americans are going to find it less affordable each year.

Incomes have been stagnant for about the past 20 years for the middle class. http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

But Disney ticket prices have outpaced inflation: http://time.com/3721999/disney-world-magic-kingdom-ticket-price/ (click on the graph "inflation adjusted price).

So if you are in a position of wage stagnation - which MOST Americans are - Disney has gotten relatively more expensive to your income. There do not seem to be economic forces that are likely to change that situation - Disney doesn't not have a lot of price pressure since they have a capacity issue - and it doesn't look like real income in the U.S. is likely to see a change for the middle class.

 

[Kim Gillihan]

We own 213 points and pay about $100 a month in maintenance fees, it may not work for everyone but by breaking it up in monthly installments it's a lot easier to think about than $1200 a year!

Jennifer

great point!

 

[kniquy]

I really don't worry about maintenance fees - they are substantially cheaper than rooms at Disney. However, I do worry about the extra expenses involved in the DVC commitment.

We don't live close enough to drive - airfare can be a really big deal - and uncontrollable.
Park tickets have increased at an incredible rate, plus starting with kids that didn't even need tickets and have now been Disney adults for YEARS - and it costs me as much - or more - in park tickets as it does for the dues.
Food at Disney has not gotten cheaper over the years we've been - and feeding two teens gets expensive. Dining out is a big part of our vacation experience - but it really adds to the cost.

All these added variables which are adding to a disney vacation can be added for all other vacations. If you were to take a Caribbean vacation -- you need airfare, resort/room, food and drinks (if not all inclusive) activities and tours -- so this can add up to be an expensive vacation as well.

With DVC the room is already paid for - so you are paying for your fights and activities -- you don't have to hit the parks and you could have a resort or orlando trip, with meals in room to save money.

I guess the benefit of having DVC is that if you can't travel due to financial reason you have the option to rent out your points to make back your maintenance fees.

 

[Kim Gillihan]

All these added variables which are adding to a disney vacation can be added for all other vacations. If you were to take a Caribbean vacation -- you need airfare, resort/room, food and drinks (if not all inclusive) activities and tours -- so this can add up to be an expensive vacation as well.

With DVC the room is already paid for - so you are paying for your fights and activities -- you don't have to hit the parks and you could have a resort or orlando trip, with meals in room to save money.

I guess the benefit of having DVC is that if you can't travel due to financial reason you have the option to rent out your points to make back your maintenance fees.

I agree... I just made offer!! So nervous!! 300 points, so lots mait fees!! and I am smiling, what is wrong with me??

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I agree... I just made offer!! So nervous!! 300 points, so lots mait fees!! and I am smiling, what is wrong with me??

That is how you are supposed to feel! You are buying property at the happiest place on earth! Good luck!

 

[Kim Gillihan]

That is how you are supposed to feel! You are buying property at the happiest place on earth! Good luck!

LOL, exactly!!

 

[crisi]

All these added variables which are adding to a disney vacation can be added for all other vacations. If you were to take a Caribbean vacation -- you need airfare, resort/room, food and drinks (if not all inclusive) activities and tours -- so this can add up to be an expensive vacation as well.

With DVC the room is already paid for - so you are paying for your fights and activities -- you don't have to hit the parks and you could have a resort or orlando trip, with meals in room to save money.

I guess the benefit of having DVC is that if you can't travel due to financial reason you have the option to rent out your points to make back your maintenance fees.

If I don't own property in the first place, I can switch my Caribbean vacation to a staycation. And I don't run the risk of renting my points out and having someone trash the room, or not pay me, or leave me with a suspended account because they didn't clear up their credit card bill when they left - or not being able to rent my points because the job loss/medical bill came at the last minute.

Now, if you have some money to risk - DVC is a pretty good deal. But I firmly believe that if this is a tight purchase for you now - unless your situation is unusual (someone here bought when things were tight - but they were also within a year of finishing their residency for their MD - when their income would go up by several multiples) - its a bad idea. For most people purchasing, if its tight now, they are at a place where money is going to stay tight - or even - if they are planning kids that haven't been born yet, or need to pay for college soon and haven't started saving - about to get tighter.

 

[Kim Gillihan]

If I don't own property in the first place, I can switch my Caribbean vacation to a staycation. And I don't run the risk of renting my points out and having someone trash the room, or not pay me, or leave me with a suspended account because they didn't clear up their credit card bill when they left - or not being able to rent my points because the job loss/medical bill came at the last minute.

Now, if you have some money to risk - DVC is a pretty good deal. But I firmly believe that if this is a tight purchase for you now - unless your situation is unusual (someone here bought when things were tight - but they were also within a year of finishing their residency for their MD - when their income would go up by several multiples) - its a bad idea. For most people purchasing, if its tight now, they are at a place where money is going to stay tight - or even - if they are planning kids that haven't been born yet, or need to pay for college soon and haven't started saving - about to get tighter.

Thank goodness i can finally afford to do this and not stress too much. good points made for sure. this is not a need, it is a want.

 

[JETSDAD]

I've been considering buying in for a couple of years and am again seriously thinking about it. For me I am in real estate and we never really know year to year what the income level will be....that is actually exactly why I am considering buying in. Right now things are great and we could buy in without it hurting. The maintenance fees will be no problem even on slow years but this would let me prepay/subsidize future vacations while I'm doing well.

 

[Dean]

It isn't about volatility of incomes - its about your income keeping pace with Disney inflation. Volatility is a factor - and most people with volatile incomes probably shouldn't consider the sort of commitment to annual dues DVC represents, but even if you have a steady salary job - if DVC is a stretch at the point of purchase, most Americans are going to find it less affordable each year.

Incomes have been stagnant for about the past 20 years for the middle class. http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

But Disney ticket prices have outpaced inflation: http://time.com/3721999/disney-world-magic-kingdom-ticket-price/ (click on the graph "inflation adjusted price).

So if you are in a position of wage stagnation - which MOST Americans are - Disney has gotten relatively more expensive to your income. There do not seem to be economic forces that are likely to change that situation - Disney doesn't not have a lot of price pressure since they have a capacity issue - and it doesn't look like real income in the U.S. is likely to see a change for the middle class.

While there's no way to guarantee catastrophic issues won't happen, most people most of the time can make reasonable predictions of their long term situation. If one is cutting it close enough that Disney inflation gets them without other major AND unpredictable issues, then they should not have bought in. This is part of the analysis one should do going in. Again, no way to predict everything but often these issues are predictable.

 

[ScubaCat]

But Disney ticket prices have outpaced inflation: http://time.com/3721999/disney-world-magic-kingdom-ticket-price/ (click on the graph "inflation adjusted price).

Time. Sheesh. That of course assumes that the offering for said ticket is the same. I remember MK with no splash mountain, 7dmt,... Epcot with less than half the countries open... That ticket in 1985 can't be considered to be worth the same as one you'd buy today.

Anyway, off topic. Moving on...

 

[DisneyRegulars]

Many people bought more points than they need and rent out points to offset MFs

More or less: $6 pt in fees, $14 value to rent.

Our example: We use about 250 points per year for personal use. I own 420 points and rent out about 170/yr. I owe a little more than $2500 in MF offset by a little less than $2400 in rental income.

This yr I've rented 181 pts so MF and rental income will be a straight up wash.

Meanwhile we have enough personal points to stay a week at Poly and a week at BCV each year.

I would caution against this strategy. We went this route. Purchased 150 extra points to rent out to offset the maintenance fees. Four years later we have yet to rent any points!!! We love using them too much! I suspect we are not the only ones whose points burned a hole in their pocket.