Lost - Season Six (Spoilers Welcome)

[Amy]

At the end where Hurley was "translating" what Isabella wanted to tell Richard and Isabella appeared next to Richard - do you think Richard could actually hear her, or did they just stop showing Hurley translate? Remember Hurley told Richard to close his eyes? Or maybe Isabella was talking to Richard telepathically or something?

beattyfamily - I think the Isabella that Richard saw when he was still chained in the ship WAS MIB manipulating Richard, just like he appeared as Jack's dad and Eko's brother, etc. But the Isabella that Hurley was talking to was the real Isabella.

It's so great to finally have Richard's story, although I kind of thought he was around much longer than the 1800's. I also thought his story would be more.....interesting?.....than it was. Don't get me wrong, I thought it flowed well and was a good explanation of how he came to be on the island, but I expected more of a blockbuster-type explanation.

And I don't think they're in hell or purgatory. When they were on the beach in the beginning of the episode and Richard told them they were all dead and they were in hell, it just didn't sit right - what a cop out!

I still think Jacob is good and MIB is bad, but they're doing a great job of blurring the edges so you're never quite sure. Isn't that the way life is? Nothing is ever black and white, just shades of gray.

 

[wvjules]

That was SO good. So much info I think. And the 'cork' reference was mentioned!

I'm having a debate with my sister who still thinks Jacob could be bad and MIB/Flocke could be good and that they are just tricking us into believing the opposite. I never said one was good and the other was bad...They both certainly manipulate...for different reasons.

I believe they are having some sort of debate/game going on and each wants to prove their points and MIB wants off the island and the only way he can leave is to have someone kill Jacob for him.
My sister is also insisting that Richard's wife could have just been an hallucination and not MIB manipulating Richard. Oh please!

I CANNOT wait for the 23AD episode giving us the history of Jacob and MIB. I would hope that would answer lots of questions...like why Jacob and MIB are having this battle. Why Jacob brings people and MIB kills them and why he can't leave till Jacob is dead etc....

AWESOME show!

Jacob is dead so what is keeping him there now? Is it because of the 6 remaining that he touched? Also, if that is the case then why isn't Flocke tring to kill each of them?

BTW, last night's episode was awesome!

ETA: When does 23AD air?

 

[ICF]

ETA: When does 23AD air?

I think that is episode 15 (next to last) - and is actually called Across the Sea

The remaining list appears to be:

6x10: The Package (Sun/Jin)
6x11: Happily Ever After (Desmond)
6x12: Everybody Loves Hugo (Hurley)
6x13: The Last Recruit (Claire)
6x14: The Candidate (Frank or Jack)
6x15: Across the Sea (Jacob/MIB)
6x16: What They Died For (rumored multi-centric)

http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63626

 

[wvjules]

I think that is episode 15 (next to last) - and is actually called Across the Sea

The remaining list appears to be:

6x10: The Package (Sun/Jin)
6x11: Happily Ever After (Desmond)
6x12: Everybody Loves Hugo (Hurley)
6x13: The Last Recruit (Claire)
6x14: The Candidate (Frank or Jack)
6x15: Across the Sea (Jacob/MIB)
6x16: What They Died For (rumored multi-centric)
http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63626

Hmmmmmmm, so are they dead?

 

[beattyfamily]

Jacob is dead so what is keeping him there now? Is it because of the 6 remaining that he touched? Also, if that is the case then why isn't Flocke tring to kill each of them?

BTW, last night's episode was awesome!

ETA: When does 23AD air?

Right, he's dead now. I just mean that over the 100'a of years, Jacob brought people there and MIB killed them...and also was always trying to kill Jacob. Now that he has succeded, his mission is to get off the island. He needs a way off.

Remember Jacob said to MIB, you know you can't kill him? That's why. For some reason, either its just the rules or it's cause Jacob touched them, he can't.

 

[LoveKermit]

Amy--

We agree. The episode went fast. Before we knew it, we only had 15 minutes left. But there was nothing I didn't expect.

MIB doesn't have to represent bad. I think it's more evil things--hedonism (keeps trying to get people to do what would make them "happy) for one. Maybe others we haven't seen yet.

MIB/Flocke hasn't found a "vessel" for leaving the island--yet.

But how did Jacob keep getting off the island? Can't wait to see that one.

But starting to feel less like my time is being wasted as I did earlier this season (Kate episode).

 

[brerrabbit]

I thought it was a great episode! And I think it answered some questions while verifying the answers to other questions.

While the discussion has been, is Jacob good, and MIB bad was answered. Jacob thinks people are inherently good and will do the right thing if left to find the answer on their own, MIB thinks man is inherently bad and will do what benifits themselves the most.

Also we found out that both Jacob and the MIB can either appear as or send visions of people to interact with certain people on the island (Hurley talking to Isabella). To me the Isabella on the Black Rock was MIB while the Isabella Hurley talked to was Jacob.

There was a hangman version of a spoiler circling the web that was answered last night. What is the island? It's a CORK. It holds hedonism in it's worst form in from unleashing Hell into the world.

The comments about everyone being dead and the island being Hell was pretty much squashed when Jacob starting dunking Ricardo in the ocean and asked what do you want? Ricardo's answer was "I want to live".

Also it is clear that MIB as smokie can read every detail of a person by scanning them as he did when Ricardo came face to face with it while still chained inside the Black Rock. That was how MIB was able to send Isabella to Ricardo right after that because he saw her in his memories.

The other thing that still is debatable amoung Lostie's is does the smoke monster only collect thoughts of a person up to the point he reads them? The reason people question this is important because many fans are still pulling for Locke to come back so that he can be the new Jacob. Some say MIB appearing as Locke knows about his past because he "read" him not long after the plane crashed while others say that MIB knows Johns past because he is in his form. They point to the fact that MIB knew Ben killed Locke because he said it, and that was three years after smokie did his reading of Locke.

Personally I think I accept the producers comment that "dead is dead" and that John as a candidate is an impossibility.

The rules of the game ie Jacob vs MIB were defined a little more last night through some flashbacks of their interaction. We also saw that the ship seen at the end of season five offshore of the island when Jacob and MIB we talking was not the Black Rock as I assumed it was because the Black Rock got there in a totally different way.

Finally we got the answer of what happened to the statue that Jacob lives in the base of. The Black Rock took it out. That must have been one heck of a storm to kick up a wave that big.

 

[gometros]

Also we found out that both Jacob and the MIB can either appear as or send visions of people to interact with certain people on the island (Hurley talking to Isabella). To me the Isabella on the Black Rock was MIB while the Isabella Hurley talked to was Jacob.

I agree with everything you wrote except for this statement. Hurley sees deadl people (gee, Hurley sounds a lot like Haley ). I don't think that was Jacob in Isabella's form. It was the ghost (or whatever it is Hurley sees) of Isabella.

 

[kali3]

What I liked about the episode is that they are setting the whole show up to be just a game being played by these two supernatural beings MIB and Jacob.

 

[pweyl36]

I thought it was a great episode! And I think it answered some questions while verifying the answers to other questions.

While the discussion has been, is Jacob good, and MIB bad was answered. Jacob thinks people are inherently good and will do the right thing if left to find the answer on their own, MIB thinks man is inherently bad and will do what benifits themselves the most.

Also we found out that both Jacob and the MIB can either appear as or send visions of people to interact with certain people on the island (Hurley talking to Isabella). To me the Isabella on the Black Rock was MIB while the Isabella Hurley talked to was Jacob.

There was a hangman version of a spoiler circling the web that was answered last night. What is the island? It's a CORK. It holds hedonism in it's worst form in from unleashing Hell into the world.

The comments about everyone being dead and the island being Hell was pretty much squashed when Jacob starting dunking Ricardo in the ocean and asked what do you want? Ricardo's answer was "I want to live".

Also it is clear that MIB as smokie can read every detail of a person by scanning them as he did when Ricardo came face to face with it while still chained inside the Black Rock. That was how MIB was able to send Isabella to Ricardo right after that because he saw her in his memories.

The other thing that still is debatable amoung Lostie's is does the smoke monster only collect thoughts of a person up to the point he reads them? The reason people question this is important because many fans are still pulling for Locke to come back so that he can be the new Jacob. Some say MIB appearing as Locke knows about his past because he "read" him not long after the plane crashed while others say that MIB knows Johns past because he is in his form. They point to the fact that MIB knew Ben killed Locke because he said it, and that was three years after smokie did his reading of Locke.

Personally I think I accept the producers comment that "dead is dead" and that John as a candidate is an impossibility.

The rules of the game ie Jacob vs MIB were defined a little more last night through some flashbacks of their interaction. We also saw that the ship seen at the end of season five offshore of the island when Jacob and MIB we talking was not the Black Rock as I assumed it was because the Black Rock got there in a totally different way.

Finally we got the answer of what happened to the statue that Jacob lives in the base of. The Black Rock took it out. That must have been one heck of a storm to kick up a wave that big.

Good thoughts, I kind of understand it some what now. Thanks

 

[brerrabbit]

I agree with everything you wrote except for this statement. Hurley sees deadl people (gee, Hurley sounds a lot like Haley ). I don't think that was Jacob in Isabella's form. It was the ghost (or whatever it is Hurley sees) of Isabella.

I agree Hurley can see ghosts, or talk to the dead, and I guess I really did not mean to say that Jacob took Isabella's form but more that in some way Jacob has a hand in sending the ghost to Hurley so he can talk to them. Because the ghost that shows up always to seem to be the right one for the situation. Like someone is intervening.

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain about what exactly your theory is here - can you elaborate a bit more please, because it sounds interesting. I always wondered if there will end up being a connection between the 3 characters named Charlie - Penny and Des's son, Charlie Pace, and Widmore.

Well, I really don't have a theory, I, like you, am just speculating really, will this lead to anything? Claire's mother talks almost exactly like Penny (and I find it pretty distinctive) and they definitely share the same hair color (as does Charlie, Claire and Aaron even). One is from the UK, the other Australia, but they speak the same..... Then we have Desmond and Penny raising a son by the name of Charlie. Charlie, a character that Desmond kept seeing premonitions of that foretold of his death. Charlie, a character Desmond had an off island interaction with as well (flashback Charlie playing music in the street for money). Right after this, Charlie saved Nadia's life when she was being attacked in an alley, when no one else would intervene (he became Nadia's hero).

Ultimately, it could all be nothing. It could be happenstance that Penny and Claire's mother just so happen to share similar traits. Penny and Desmond could have even named their son in memory of Charlie Pace, too.

 

[N.Bailey]

That was SO good. So much info I think. And the 'cork' reference was mentioned!

I'm having a debate with my sister who still thinks Jacob could be bad and MIB/Flocke could be good and that they are just tricking us into believing the opposite. I never said one was good and the other was bad...They both certainly manipulate...for different reasons.

I believe they are having some sort of debate/game going on and each wants to prove their points and MIB wants off the island and the only way he can leave is to have someone kill Jacob for him.

My sister is also insisting that Richard's wife could have just been an hallucination and not MIB manipulating Richard. Oh please!

I CANNOT wait for the 23AD episode giving us the history of Jacob and MIB. I would hope that would answer lots of questions...like why Jacob and MIB are having this battle. Why Jacob brings people and MIB kills them and why he can't leave till Jacob is dead etc....

AWESOME show!

Maybe the key to killing one or the other is doing so before they can utter a single word, but Jacob clearly said in season 5 that if the MIB kills him, it will only be in his current form, he himself will not be dead.

 

[N.Bailey]

If Jacob and MIB are enemies then why is it that Jacob and his people control smokie if MIB is actually smokie? KWIM?

Who is deciding who lives and dies? Is it actually smokie, since he is the manifestation of the smoke monster. Is he the one killing people? Or is it Jacob, since he seems to have some control over what the smoke monster is doing?

Jacob brought Richard to the island. Why? Who knows, but did he decide to just kill everyone else and leave only Richard alive? If that was the case then why didn't he come and save him on the ship? Why was it MIB who saved him?

I'm so confused.

Did anyone think that it appeared that the MIB touched Richard, much like Jacob did with Locke and brought him back to life? We know that Jacob gave him immortality, but I wonder if the MIB has any candidates? Or maybe he doesn't use them in that capacity after he helps them?

 

[N.Bailey]

At the end where Hurley was "translating" what Isabella wanted to tell Richard and Isabella appeared next to Richard - do you think Richard could actually hear her, or did they just stop showing Hurley translate? Remember Hurley told Richard to close his eyes? Or maybe Isabella was talking to Richard telepathically or something?

beattyfamily - I think the Isabella that Richard saw when he was still chained in the ship WAS MIB manipulating Richard, just like he appeared as Jack's dad and Eko's brother, etc. But the Isabella that Hurley was talking to was the real Isabella.

It's so great to finally have Richard's story, although I kind of thought he was around much longer than the 1800's. I also thought his story would be more.....interesting?.....than it was. Don't get me wrong, I thought it flowed well and was a good explanation of how he came to be on the island, but I expected more of a blockbuster-type explanation.

And I don't think they're in hell or purgatory. When they were on the beach in the beginning of the episode and Richard told them they were all dead and they were in hell, it just didn't sit right - what a cop out!

I still think Jacob is good and MIB is bad, but they're doing a great job of blurring the edges so you're never quite sure. Isn't that the way life is? Nothing is ever black and white, just shades of gray.

Well we know the Black Rock isn't beside the statue, so how did it wind up in the middle of the Island? Did the island sink at some point?

 

[N.Bailey]

Jacob is dead so what is keeping him there now? Is it because of the 6 remaining that he touched? Also, if that is the case then why isn't Flocke tring to kill each of them?

BTW, last night's episode was awesome!

ETA: When does 23AD air?

I don't think he's dead. I was wrong when I said above that Jacob mentioned something in season 5 (I am watching older episodes alongside the newer ones and got confused). But didn't Jacob say last night that if the MIB had him killed, he'd just take another form?

 

[N.Bailey]

I think that is episode 15 (next to last) - and is actually called Across the Sea

The remaining list appears to be:

6x10: The Package (Sun/Jin)
6x11: Happily Ever After (Desmond)
6x12: Everybody Loves Hugo (Hurley)
6x13: The Last Recruit (Claire)
6x14: The Candidate (Frank or Jack)
6x15: Across the Sea (Jacob/MIB)
6x16: What They Died For (rumored multi-centric)

http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63626

and here is wiki
series # 113 - season #10 "The Package" (featured - none)
series #114 season # 11 "Happily Ever After" (featured -Desmond)
series #115 season # 12 "Everybody Loves Hugo" (featured -Hurley)
series #116 season #13 "The Last Recruit" (featured - TBA)
series #117 season #14 "TBA" (featured - TBA
series #118 season # 15 "Across the Sea" (featured -Jacob & MIB)
series #119 season # 16 "What They Died For" (featured - TBA)
series #120/121 season #17/18 "TBA"

 

[N.Bailey]

If Jacob took another form, who among the islanders could now be Jacob? Is that going to be a shocker?

 

[wvjules]

If Jacob took another form, who among the islanders could now be Jacob? Is that going to be a shocker?

I think, if anyone, it is Hurley. He is the most "good" of all of them.

 

[ICF]

IMDB lists my Episode 14 (or #13 on their list -since LA X 1 & 2 is listed as 1 episode) as what I had..."The Candidate" and no names for the last couple of episodes.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/episodes