Livid - Missing School Vent

[HappyLawyer]

it is not a teachers place to discuss that with a child, if she wanted to remind your dtr of days missed she should be talking to you the parent, i would make a complaint and take it as high as you can,

 

[Schmeck]

Teachers do not get paid to stay after school to get their photocopying done for students who will be absent. That would amount to 'overtime', which teachers in my area do not get, ever. Of course, the teacher could just step out of class, leave the kids unattended, go to the photocopy room... Or, she could go during her designated 30 minute duty free lunch period...

If your daughter has only missed five days (and that would be during the 1st quarter, right?) I see no problem with missing two more days, in a different quarter. Could she get the extra work after she comes back?

 

[justKim]

I REALLY HOPE YOU'RE KIDDING!!! Photo copy for the teacher?!? That's part of her job that she gets PAID to do!?! Boy, I really hope your kidding!!

At the three schools where I taught, teachers weren't allowed to use the photocopying machine. The volume was so great that clerks were the only ones with the codes for the machines. That's one reason why getting work copied for kids in advance can be tough.

Now, at my son's elementary school, parent volunteers do all of the copying.

 

[zurgswife]

Those of us who follow the schools rules and vacation during breaks are often made to feel on the DIS that somehow this makes us inferior parents who do not value the time with our kids.

I have pretty much followed all these threads and while the parents that chose to pull there kids out are very firm in there belief that it is a good thing to do....I have never read once where someone called another parent an inferior parent for choosing to do something different.

Everybody is entitled to there opinion and standards....An I for one pull my kids out....but lucky for me I'm not breaking any school "RULES" by doing so....So, I don't have the added stress that other parents might when deciding whether I will or won't...

 

[crisi]

Since the teacher framed this as pros and cons, perhaps the thing to do is to sit down with your daughter and make a list of the pros and cons. If the cons really do outweigh the pros, maybe this is the last time you'll be able to pull her from school. Use this as an opportunity to teach critical thinking and decision making - as well as understanding that people have different priorities.

It might also be worthwhile to define for yourself and your daughter's teachers what you feel is the upper limit of days you will pull your child from school for something like a vacation. For some people, this number is zero, no exceptions. For others it much higher. Some people its variable....a larger number for elementary school children a smaller number for a high school kid - and maybe none for a high school kid having problems making good grades. I can see why a teacher might be concerned - the school year is not yet half over and you've pulled your kids for two family vacations - a person with a low tolerance for missing school might wonder what Spring will bring. It is possible that your priorities and the schools priorities are incompatible enough that home schooling will be a good option.

I'm currently taking college courses, and its amazing to me how many students in college miss many of the classes, and then are astounded when they don't do well. In many cases, attendance is tied to the grade. In other cases, they just don't know the material because they weren't in class. They haven't been taught that attendance is important. Its also really frustrating when we have to cover material we've already covered because a student felt something else was more important than showing up to class. Its terribly disrespectful of my time, I was there the first time it was taught.

 

[tink2]

Wow- these threads always get interesting...
I say, do what is best for you child and your family. If it means never missing school- fine. If it means pulling your child out for family vacations- fine- as long as they are doing well.
Personally- I am a second grade teacher and my daughter is in kindergarten. We are both missing next week to go to WDW. We had originally planned to go a different time, things happened, and we are now missing a week. I have spoken with her teacher, the principal, and superintendent- mainly b/c of me missing a week. All were very supportive. It is something I've never done- being away from my class for an entire week- except when I had my children. Anyway, I do not feel bad at all for taking my daughter out. Yes, she will miss some things- especially some Christmas activities. However, she is doing very well in school and is not struggling. As a second grade teacher, I have at least one student- if not more- a year miss a week for some sort of vacation. It is never a problem- unless they are struggling with their work.
This is a family decision. I believe only if it becomes a continual habit of missing a lot of weeks in one school year should it become a school decision. Family is number one. There are families whose jobs will not allow them to take vacations but certain times of the year- like my husband's.
Good luck with your problem. I would talk to the teacher and principal. I would explain my side, then I would go and have a good time! My goodness, never made a B? I think she can afford to miss two days!

 

[laceemouse]

Everytime someone says "Well, we follow the school rules (or suggestions) and vacation during school break" you get the next dozen people saying "Family time is important" "Family time is important" "Family time is important!" Does family time only happen at WDW when the kids are supposed to be in school?? We have 4 kids. We eat dinner together every night. We do fun family activities every weekend. We have 2 or 3 vacations a year (sometimes one of them is Disney, we also like to go other places.) There are exceptions, like when a parent just can not get off at any other time. But don't use the excuse of valuing family time as a reason to take the kids out of school. Lower elementary, okay, but as the kids get older it is more complicated for them and the teachers. I make copies, and do lots of other things, for our teachers all the time. They work very hard to give my kids a great education. I also find Crisi's comments interesting. When the teacher has to go over something another kid missed, my kids have to sit through it again. I told the OP to go ahead and take THIS trip, but if it were me I would make it the last during school. Why put the kid through all that trouble?

 

[Jolimont]

You know what's best for your family, and I won't presume to take sides on this, but I think it's reasonable for the teacher to bring up that there are cons to this. The teacher probably should have taken the time to call you rather than speak to your child alone, but we have to keep in mind that schools are accountable for test performance these days. Is it possible this teacher thinks your child may not do well in future tests if she misses school at this time?

 

[Drizzo67]

I get what people are saying about family time at home, etc. but some of us have jobs that do not allow us the luxury of eating with the children. My DH gets home just as my kids are going to sleep. He only has Sundays off and is often exhausted. I feel guilty making him do too much just in order to spend time with the kids. They look forward to vacations like WDW just to have him all to themselves.

I, for one, am pulling my kids out of school for 6 days in February 2005. This is the only time my DH and I have off at the same time. The kids teachers have been notified as well as the school district. We have had nothing but best wishes for our trip. My DS (9) has decided on his own to write a report about the countries in EPCOT. He saw an opportunity to learn and to show what he'll learn to his teacher. If the teacher in question really had a problem with the missed days, the people to talk to were the parents not the DD.

Just one persons opinion.

 

[Buttercup26]

I am very sympathetic to both sides of the pulling kids out of school argument. But what really disturbs me about this is the way the teacher handled it with the child. It was completely inappropriate to discuss this with an 11 year old, particularly in this manner. If she (the teacher) was concerned, she should have dealt directly with the parents. An 11 year old does not have 'option' of participating in a family vacation. Pitting this poor child against her parents is deplorable. I would talk to the teacher, the principal and the district superintendent. Children have enough stress in their lives, trying to make an 11 year old child decide between school and family is absolutely horrendous. Please complain, calmly, politely and forcefully. Very inappropriate behavior!!

 

[takemetoo]

Alright, I know you probably weren't serious, but my vote if for home schooling! My dh is a private school teacher who has to do all of his own photo-copying, and we home school our 2 ds. Travel is learning, and if you home school you need not worry that it doesn't fit in to your child's teacher's plan. Seriously, home school her!

 

[cbbi]

That's exactly why I was so upset yesterday buttercup.
And Crisi - I also think the point that you make is valid.

Its also really frustrating when we have to cover material we've already covered because a student felt something else was more important than showing up to class. Its terribly disrespectful of my time, I was there the first time it was taught.

However, I taught college classes as well and I think the teacher who chose to go back over work already reviewed - not the people who missed class - is responsible for disrespecting your time. I would simply say "already covered" and move on. In fact, after a while I didn't even have to say it anymore...the students would say it for me.

 

[cbbi]

Seriously, home school her!

Oh - I am so tempted! I firmly believe that our travels are one of the reasons our children do so well in school. I still believe that when reasonable minds prevail there is room for a fair blend of both. And my husband is a big believer in the theory that surviving public school is also an education for life. The jury is still out on that for me. I wonder if the socialization lessons learned are worth the self esteem damage and peer pressure challenges for some children. But that is for another website! I am jealous of you flexible homeschoolers! Maybe someday....

 

[JLH]

As someone who works in the guidance office of a middle school, the absences are important to the school because the school is rated statewide (for blue ribbon status, etc) and attendance numbers count very much...also state funding is affected by absences. At our school, our principal does not approve of schooltime vacations and codes the requests/notes as "parent indifference" and the teachers are in no way obligated to provide make up work at all.

 

[crisi]

Perhaps you are right - I happen to think its the students - and a prof who lets them walk all over him (its a long complicated situation). But public school is a little different. With public school, and mandatory testing, the schools and teachers are responsible for the students learning the material that will be tested - just because the students don't bother showing up in class isn't a good enough excuse for "no child left behind."

(BTW, Louisiana does have a complusory attendance law - although I can't find it specifically. From what I can infer, you have 10 unexcused absenses before the school is within their rights to turn you over to CPS for violating the law. I'm not being judgemental - I pull mine from school on occation - just trying to give you facts to work with.)

 

[MickeysMyMan]

When the school decides to quit giving my kids work over the summer break and other school holidays, then I'll quit taking my kids out of school during school days.
I am always amazed that this topic creates such a fuss. I'm the parent and know what's best for my kids, I pay my taxes that fund the schools, I elect the school board members. I think I have a few rights.

 

[takemetoo]

"But that is for another website! I am jealous of you flexible homeschoolers! Maybe someday...."

Well, feel free to pm me if you want some leads to help you figure out if you really do want to hs! Be glad to help!

Oh, and there are PLENTY of socal/life lesson opportunities outside of public school.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I am pulling my son out for 2 days in January. The district says his absences will be "unexcused" which means the teachers are not obligated to let him make up the work - they can give him zeros. Last year he was out sick a total of 17 days (5 of them he was hospitalized). This year (knock wood) he has been healthy and has not missed any days. He is in third grade. In my opinion we are already way ahead of where we were last year, excused or not!

Yes, he will take standardized tests in the Spring. Yes, maybe I am being "indifferent". BUT I do value education. He has all A's and B's on his report cards so far, and if he doesn't do his best on an assignment then we speak with him about it. He has a private math tutor that is costing us a bundle but we feel it is important for him to have that individual help.

We have never been on a real family vacation. DS WON his airline ticket through a charity fundraiser - he worked really hard on that event and I am very proud of him. He deserves this trip, and I don't feel bad about him missing two days of school.

I feel like your DD's teacher totally overstepped her boundaries. It was completely inappropriate for her to point out the "pros and cons". The MOST she should have said was "You won't be allowed to make up that work" or "You will have quite a bit of work to make up when you return" or whatever. Not up to her to try to change DD's mind!! I would absolutely approach the teacher, maybe by saying "DD mentioned that you had her list the pros and cons of taking this trip. Can you tell me more about that?" Then make it crystal clear to the teacher that she was not invited to assist in making the decision about the timing of the trip! Whatever her motivation was in having your DD make that list, it was misguided at best and plain mean at worst.

Enjoy your trip! I certainly plan to enjoy ours!

 

[justKim]

For the OP, I wonder about the teacher's actions. Was this confrontation with your child an isolated event? I just can't imagine talking to an 11 year old like that. I did have discussions about attendence with some of my high school students, but I can't see contradicting a parent in front of the child unless the parent was clearly being negligent.

Of course, the teacher could be dealing with other students with other issues and let the frustration spill over to your child.

I do have to relate an incident that happened with one of my students years ago. A freshman missed the first week of school. When she showed up, there were no lockers left, and she couldn't make any of the schedule changes that she wanted. The mom was very angry. I asked why she had been absent and the mother told me that they had gone to Disney World. I just mentally rolled my eyes. Then the daughter countered that they weren't at Disney the first week of school. The mom then admitted that they had gone to Disney the week before school started, but that she kept her daughter home the first week of school to let her rest. Now, that's being indifferent to your child's education!

 

[mjmcca]

My husband is a teacher. I have not had to deal with this question yet becasue my chidren and too young. Teachers are not paid for work they have to do ouside of class time this includes class prep which includes photocopying any materials they need, making up exams and grading those exams and papers.