Live Nativity at Public School Christmas Concert

[TAX GUY]

Except public school winter holiday concerts are held around the same time as Hannakuh, Kwanzaa, Yule, Pancha Ganapati, etc., etc.

Now, granted, while our nation has a diverse set of religions (and lack there of), Christmas and New Year's Day are in general considered the reason that schools are closed between December 24th and January 2nd. This country started as mostly Christian and is experiencing the growing pains of diversification.

Since we live in a country that was founded on the idea of religious liberty, we need to accept the fact that not everybody in this country is, in fact, Christian. But we just about all have a winter holiday.

I thought it was Christmas Break? And for those that aren't Christian, why do they participate in these Christmas breaks? I know several Jewish families and they take Jewish holidays off (paid) and Christian holidays off (paid). Now, I'm not Jewish so why shouldn't I have those off paid too? What about atheist beliefs? Should they not get any religious holidays off? Everyone wants to "opt out" of traditional beliefs until its a benefit to them...

 

[Dawnlight]

I thought it was Christmas Break? And for those that aren't Christian, why do they participate in these Christmas breaks? I know several Jewish families and they take Jewish holidays off (paid) and Christian holidays off (paid). Now, I'm not Jewish so why shouldn't I have those off paid too? What about atheist beliefs? Should they not get any religious holidays off? Everyone wants to "opt out" of traditional beliefs until its a benefit to them...

We're a more traditionally observant Jewish family, and while my husband does take the Jewish holidays off from work, he's never been paid for them. He has to use his vacation time, just as any other person would. He doesn't get those days off and vacation days. It's the price we're willing to pay to maintain our observance, and due to this we are usually unable to take a normal family vacation.

I've never heard of a Jewish person getting paid for days off for Jewish holidays; it comes from their vacation allotment.

 

[LukenDC]

I welcome all good wishes that are spoken from a spirit of goodwill. This includes Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Peace be upon you, and even God bless you. There is too much hate and loneliness in the world for people to get upset by a greeting.

 

[TAX GUY]

We're an observant Jewish family, and while my husband does take the Jewish holidays off from work, he's never been paid for them. He has to use his vacation time, just as any other person would. He doesn't get those days off and vacation days. It's the price we're willing to pay to maintain our observance, and due to this we are usually unable to take a normal family vacation.

I've never heard of a Jewish person getting paid for days off for Jewish holidays; it comes from their vacation allotment.

I've seen only a few different companies that those of Jewish faith took the Jewish holidays off, with pay, AND the traditional Christmas holidays off, also with pay.

As I asked before, what was the movie being shown that you opted out for your children?

 

[frndshpcptn]

I've seen only a few different companies that those of Jewish faith took the Jewish holidays off, with pay, AND the traditional Christmas holidays off, also with pay.

I've never heard of that policy. What companies are these?

 

[goofy4tink]

Many years ag, when my now 21 y/o was in kindergarten, the teacher read a story that had Santa Claus in it.....a mention, he wasn't the subject. Well, a friend of dd's said that she didn't have to listen to that stuff and turned her chair around. She is Jewish. Several days later, this girl's mother was in there, reading a Hanukah story. I guess a 100% religious story was ok vs one that was 'seasonal' with a mention of Santa.
So, fast forward through the years....the kids are in high school. Our town population that is very mixed....Christian, Jewish, Muslim. A huge Indian population that is involved in many different religions. So, now the schools have a 'winter' concert. BUT.....traditionally, this choral concert ends with a mass singing of the Halleluia Chorus. All alumni of the school's music dept is welcomed up to the front to join in. This chorus is about as Christian as you can get. No one has ever said anything about it. And believe me, in this town, if anyone had an issue with it, the school dept would know. The rest of the music is very secular....not festive at all.
So, when dd was a junior, one of her Jewish friends said there was no way she was singing g that last 'church' song. And she didn't. Now, here's the thing.....no one said a thing to her, no one really cared. Her mother asked me later, in the lobby, why her dd hadn't taken part. I told her that due to, I assume, religious differences, she chose not to. Her mother was shocked!

We have an ecumenical Thanksgiving service in this town. Each church, temple, whatever, is asked to participate. This year instead of the old form, we had a panel of several religions, including Sikhs. They were to explain their beliefs. Sadly, bad weather canceled it. There needs to be more of that type thing. We need to be more welcoming and get to know more about other beliefs. No one is trying to recruit new members....it's about sharing knowledge.

To say it is up to parents to to teach this is short sighted. There are few people out there that can explain multiple other beliefs. It is only when we are knowledgable about other cultures and religions that we can have any hope for peace.
It is sad that so many are threatened by children singing various religious songs. We lose so much. To me, it would make more sense to have concerts that celebrate all religions.....especially those religions in the community. It used to be that you would never hear white people singing spirituals. Now? Stop at many churches and listen. It's commonplace.

I will continue wishing people a Merry Christmas or a Happy Hanukah. Very few are insulted if I wish them a happy 'wrong' holiday. They usually respond with their own greeting. And we all feel good.

 

[TAX GUY]

I've never heard of that policy. What companies are these?

The last company I worked for (privately owned) and a local insurance agency (actually two different agencies). Those are the three companies I've heard of that gave Jewish holidays off PAID to those of that faith AND the traditional Christmas holidays, paid.

 

[frndshpcptn]

The last company I worked for (privately owned) and a local insurance agency (actually two different agencies). Those are the three companies I've heard of that gave Jewish holidays off PAID to those of that faith AND the traditional Christmas holidays, paid.

And those days weren't vacation time used? Just "take the day off with no impact on your personal days / vacation days / sick days" time?

Did they give everyone of other faiths this same time off as well? For things like Diwali, Greek Easter, Ramadan, etc?

 

[sam_gordon]

I thought it was Christmas Break? And for those that aren't Christian, why do they participate in these Christmas breaks? I know several Jewish families and they take Jewish holidays off (paid) and Christian holidays off (paid). Now, I'm not Jewish so why shouldn't I have those off paid too? What about atheist beliefs? Should they not get any religious holidays off? Everyone wants to "opt out" of traditional beliefs until its a benefit to them...

I bet you a Dole Whip if you look at your public school calendar, it will be listed as "winter break", "semester break", or some else other than 'Christmas Break'.

To the PP who said "if the majority want it, it should happen" (paraphrasing)... um, no.

Regarding wishing someone "Merry Christmas", no one is proposing you (general) be forced to NOT say it (by the government). I'm sure there are some companies who force their employees to say "Happy Holidays" in order to be more inclusive, but nothing is preventing those people from saying Merry Christmas when off the clock (or finding another company to work for).

As far as the OP, as long as the concert was told to the students ahead of time AND they weren't forced to participate (being docked grades is "forcing" them), and other students weren't forced to attend (by the school, parents may force them), I see no problem with it.

I'm Jewish. If I wanted the High Holy days off, I would have to take them as vacation (if I wanted paid). When I was in school, I missed school. It was an excused absence.

And B&H Photo-Video (a HUGE NY and online company) is always closed for the Jewish High Holy days, and I think for Christmas (you can order online, but they post your order won't be filled until they return to work).

 

[SMD]

We're an observant Jewish family, and while my husband does take the Jewish holidays off from work, he's never been paid for them. He has to use his vacation time, just as any other person would. He doesn't get those days off and vacation days. It's the price we're willing to pay to maintain our observance, and due to this we are usually unable to take a normal family vacation.

I've never heard of a Jewish person getting paid for days off for Jewish holidays; it comes from their vacation allotment.

I've never been paid for them either. I have asked to take them unpaid, so I don't have to use a vested vacation day that is allotted for a later vacation. Sometimes it's accommodated, sometimes it isn't. I've also had to work them, but I'm not observant anymore, so it's mostly ok with me as long as it's handled professionally. Many years ago my sister was fired from a new job for requesting either Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur off. It's been so long I forgot which one it was. They said she misled them when she said she was available to work weekdays.

I thought it was Christmas Break? And for those that aren't Christian, why do they participate in these Christmas breaks? I know several Jewish families and they take Jewish holidays off (paid) and Christian holidays off (paid). Now, I'm not Jewish so why shouldn't I have those off paid too? What about atheist beliefs? Should they not get any religious holidays off? Everyone wants to "opt out" of traditional beliefs until its a benefit to them...

I've also had to work Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, New Years. I get paid holiday pay for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years because those are federal holidays. If the Jewish holidays were federal holidays, you'd get paid for them. I have no issue working on Christmas or covering for someone on Christmas or Easter, because I don't observe those days. But I routinely encounter people who think it is somehow unfair to them that our religious observances happen to fall on other days. What is a traditional religious belief? Being Jewish is very traditional to myself, my family and millions of other Jews in this country. How would you feel to be in a Christian minority where Christmas was not a federal holiday and you had to make arrangements and ask for permission and exceptions to miss work to observe it?

 

[TAX GUY]

And those days weren't vacation time used? Just "take the day off with no impact on your personal days / vacation days / sick days" time?

Did they give everyone of other faiths this same time off as well? For things like Diwali, Greek Easter, Ramadan, etc?

Correct. And I know this because I was the controller/general manager. I handled the payroll and there was no reduction of personal/vacation/sick time.

There were the traditional Christians and Jewish faiths in this place so the other days you listed didn't apply.

 

[TAX GUY]

I bet you a Dole Whip if you look at your public school calendar, it will be listed as "winter break", "semester break", or some else other than 'Christmas Break'.

To the PP who said "if the majority want it, it should happen" (paraphrasing)... um, no.

Regarding wishing someone "Merry Christmas", no one is proposing you (general) be forced to NOT say it (by the government). I'm sure there are some companies who force their employees to say "Happy Holidays" in order to be more inclusive, but nothing is preventing those people from saying Merry Christmas when off the clock (or finding another company to work for).

As far as the OP, as long as the concert was told to the students ahead of time AND they weren't forced to participate (being docked grades is "forcing" them), and other students weren't forced to attend (by the school, parents may force them), I see no problem with it.

I'm Jewish. If I wanted the High Holy days off, I would have to take them as vacation (if I wanted paid). When I was in school, I missed school. It was an excused absence.

And B&H Photo-Video (a HUGE NY and online company) is always closed for the Jewish High Holy days, and I think for Christmas (you can order online, but they post your order won't be filled until they return to work).

Just the part specific to me..... our son attends a Catholic school so it reads Christmas break

 

[Debbie19]

I bet you a Dole Whip if you look at your public school calendar, it will be listed as "winter break", "semester break", or some else other than 'Christmas Break'. To the PP who said "if the majority want it, it should happen" (paraphrasing)... um, no. Regarding wishing someone "Merry Christmas", no one is proposing you (general) be forced to NOT say it (by the government). I'm sure there are some companies who force their employees to say "Happy Holidays" in order to be more inclusive, but nothing is preventing those people from saying Merry Christmas when off the clock (or finding another company to work for). As far as the OP, as long as the concert was told to the students ahead of time AND they weren't forced to participate (being docked grades is "forcing" them), and other students weren't forced to attend (by the school, parents may force them), I see no problem with it. I'm Jewish. If I wanted the High Holy days off, I would have to take them as vacation (if I wanted paid). When I was in school, I missed school. It was an excused absence. And B&H Photo-Video (a HUGE NY and online company) is always closed for the Jewish High Holy days, and I think for Christmas (you can order online, but they post your order won't be filled until they return to work).

You owe me a Dole Whip because I just looked at my school district calendar and it states Christmas break. And it a large suburban public school.

 

[lizabu]

A live nativity wouldn't fly here either. People would probably walk out. When schools have a winter concert they sing songs about winter etc. if people want their children to have religious influences in school they don't send them to public school. We have Christian, Muslim, Jewish and catholic schools in my city. I'm Christian and I think I would be really shocked if I saw a live nativity in a public school. When I was a kid, Christmas and prayers were common in school but I think we've come to realize that not everyone is Christian.

 

[marmalade]

I just checked my kids calendar to see what they call the break nowadays and they are calling it "Holiday Recess". I never paid attention on what they label the breaks.

 

[Hrhpd]

I thought it was Christmas Break? And for those that aren't Christian, why do they participate in these Christmas breaks? I know several Jewish families and they take Jewish holidays off (paid) and Christian holidays off (paid). Now, I'm not Jewish so why shouldn't I have those off paid too? What about atheist beliefs? Should they not get any religious holidays off? Everyone wants to "opt out" of traditional beliefs until its a benefit to them...

In our state, none of the public schools have Christmas break. It is Winter Break. Nor do we have Easter break, it is Spring break.

I have no problem singing different songs in a Holiday concert. Yes, we do not have Christmas concerts. We have a Holiday concert.

Choir in our state is a class, so the concerts are mandatory if you take the class. You cannot just decide to sing.

Now, the HS choir director is very good at mixing up all different songs. They are very diverse.

But you should have seen the uproar when the students were required to stand in a circle around a post and do Wiccan chants as part of the program.

But if you accept one religion's songs represented in a Public school's Holiday concert, you have to accept all religions' songs and traditions.

What I do have a huge problem with is teacher/coach led prayers before a game, tournament, match, meet or anything else that is school sponsored. That is not appropriate. A moment of silence for the students to engage in their own prayer if they want is ok, but not one religion represented by a state employee.

One poster said "if you don't want to sing the songs, don't go out for choir." The same could be said that if you want your child to have their religion represented in their school, then they need to go to a private religious school.

A live nativity would not be allowed in our public schools.

I find it funny that people say this is an attack on one religion. I see it more as a push to get one religion more represented. As evidenced by the people who refuse to acknowledge that there are other religion's ceremonies in the same time frame.

And traditional beliefs? Traditional for who? Every different religion has their own traditions. There is no standard tradition for our country.

 

[bcla]

I used to work at a company with small offices around the world, including Singapore. Their national holidays get interesting, including days that are traditional Christian (Christmas, Good Friday), Buddhist (Vesak), Hindu (Deepavali), and Islamic holidays (two days for Eid) - as well as purely secular holidays like New Year's Day and two days for Chinese New Year. I remember getting messages about the office being closed during these days and found out more.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave-and-holidays/Pages/public-holidays-2014.aspx

Now while everyone got to take the day off, the mere fact of taking a day off doesn't confer that one is celebrating a religious holiday. It becomes a secular day off to do whatever one wants.

 

[frndshpcptn]

Correct. And I know this because I was the controller/general manager. I handled the payroll and there was no reduction of personal/vacation/sick time.

There were the traditional Christians and Jewish faiths in this place so the other days you listed didn't apply.

Those are three companies that are very generous with time off then! Lucky workers

 

[Hrhpd]

Many years ag, when my now 21 y/o was in kindergarten, the teacher read a story that had Santa Claus in it.....a mention, he wasn't the subject. Well, a friend of dd's said that she didn't have to listen to that stuff and turned her chair around. She is Jewish. Several days later, this girl's mother was in there, reading a Hanukah story. I guess a 100% religious story was ok vs one that was 'seasonal' with a mention of Santa.
So, fast forward through the years....the kids are in high school. Our town population that is very mixed....Christian, Jewish, Muslim. A huge Indian population that is involved in many different religions. So, now the schools have a 'winter' concert. BUT.....traditionally, this choral concert ends with a mass singing of the Halleluia Chorus. All alumni of the school's music dept is welcomed up to the front to join in. This chorus is about as Christian as you can get. No one has ever said anything about it. And believe me, in this town, if anyone had an issue with it, the school dept would know. The rest of the music is very secular....not festive at all.
So, when dd was a junior, one of her Jewish friends said there was no way she was singing g that last 'church' song. And she didn't. Now, here's the thing.....no one said a thing to her, no one really cared. Her mother asked me later, in the lobby, why her dd hadn't taken part. I told her that due to, I assume, religious differences, she chose not to. Her mother was shocked!

We have an ecumenical Thanksgiving service in this town. Each church, temple, whatever, is asked to participate. This year instead of the old form, we had a panel of several religions, including Sikhs. They were to explain their beliefs. Sadly, bad weather canceled it. There needs to be more of that type thing. We need to be more welcoming and get to know more about other beliefs. No one is trying to recruit new members....it's about sharing knowledge.

To say it is up to parents to to teach this is short sighted. There are few people out there that can explain multiple other beliefs. It is only when we are knowledgable about other cultures and religions that we can have any hope for peace.
It is sad that so many are threatened by children singing various religious songs. We lose so much. To me, it would make more sense to have concerts that celebrate all religions.....especially those religions in the community. It used to be that you would never hear white people singing spirituals. Now? Stop at many churches and listen. It's commonplace.

I will continue wishing people a Merry Christmas or a Happy Hanukah. Very few are insulted if I wish them a happy 'wrong' holiday. They usually respond with their own greeting. And we all feel good.

Very good post, although I disagree with the Santa being seasonal. It is rooted in its religion.

But I agree so much that there needs to be more sharing and acceptance of all religions.

But I say

as to me, it is more inclusive of everbody's traditions and celebrations in December.

And we celebrate a very traditional Christmas.

 

[frndshpcptn]

And B&H Photo-Video (a HUGE NY and online company) is always closed for the Jewish High Holy days, and I think for Christmas (you can order online, but they post your order won't be filled until they return to work).

Yes - B&H also closes early every Friday for Shabbos and is closed Saturdays as well. It's a religiously run business.

Same as any other religiously owned / run business being closed on their holy days.