Legal Questions for the DIS Lawyers

[hockeyplayer]

My friend is separated from her husband. They have an informal custody arrangement whereby each parent gets the two children every other week. Last week, friend's daughter was injured on July 4th. Father waited two days to seek medical care (broken finger/hand) but instead of taking off work to deal with the doctor appointment/x-rays, he sent his girlfriend with the child. (Father has flexibility to take off whenever he wishes - is self-employed, but sent girlfriend instead.) Father was aware that mother WAS available to take child to doctor, but did not notify her. There is nothing on file/no legal arrangement/no permission forms etc. designating the girlfriend as one who has permission to seek non-urgent medical care for the children. Medical insurance is held by the mother.

My friend is now furious that the medical center treated her child without a parent there, or without at least checking with her to see whether it was Ok to treat the child. This "girlfriend" could have been any old person off the street - the medical center didn't know her and she was not listed on any of the paperwork. She doesn't know the child's health history, and could have inadvertently consented to the administration of medication that the child is allergic to. Fortunately, nothing bad happened. Mother was not notified of the visit until 4 days after the original injury.

Is she liable for any cost not covered by insurance? Or should this be the Dad's problem? What can she do to prevent this from happening in the future? This is in Pennsylvania, if it matters. I want it made clear that she is not upset that the child was taken for care (upset that it took so long, but not that care was sought). She IS upset that the child was treated without a parent present and without notification.

 

[ilovemk76]

The father is a legal guardian and he could have given written permission to get the child treated.

A form agreement would spell out when and how the non-custodial parent is to be notified in the case of an injury and how soon afterthe injury.

She is liable for the bill but a formal agreement would spell out who pays what

The way to fix this problem is to have a formal visitation schedule with medical, calls and the like called out.

My friend is separated from her husband. They have an informal custody arrangement whereby each parent gets the two children every other week. Last week, friend's daughter was injured on July 4th. Father waited two days to seek medical care (broken finger/hand) but instead of taking off work to deal with the doctor appointment/x-rays, he sent his girlfriend with the child. (Father has flexibility to take off whenever he wishes - is self-employed, but sent girlfriend instead.) Father was aware that mother WAS available to take child to doctor, but did not notify her. There is nothing on file/no legal arrangement/no permission forms etc. designating the girlfriend as one who has permission to seek non-urgent medical care for the children. Medical insurance is held by the mother.

My friend is now furious that the medical center treated her child without a parent there, or without at least checking with her to see whether it was Ok to treat the child. This "girlfriend" could have been any old person off the street - the medical center didn't know her and she was not listed on any of the paperwork. She doesn't know the child's health history, and could have inadvertently consented to the administration of medication that the child is allergic to. Fortunately, nothing bad happened. Mother was not notified of the visit until 4 days after the original injury.

Is she liable for any cost not covered by insurance? Or should this be the Dad's problem? What can she do to prevent this from happening in the future? This is in Pennsylvania, if it matters. I want it made clear that she is not upset that the child was taken for care (upset that it took so long, but not that care was sought). She IS upset that the child was treated without a parent present and without notification.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

The father is a legal guardian and he could have given written permission to get the child treated.

A form agreement would spell out when and how the non-custodial parent is to be notified in the case of an injury and how soon afterthe injury.

She is liable for the bill but a formal agreement would spell out who pays what

The way to fix this problem is to have a formal visitation schedule with medical, calls and the like called out.

I HIGHLY recommend this!!! BTDT - just wait until father's GF becomes stepmom and see how quickly grey areas pop up.

 

[rgf207]

Since the child is a minor, there is implied consent involved regarding treatment meaning that if a parent or legal guardian is not present to specifically say "do not treat this child" they have to be treated. Any costs involved would be the responsibility of the parents / guardians.

Since the insurance is in the mother's name, they would be billed to her and she is liable.

 

[Princess Dolly]

You really need to look into having a formalized agreement. It doesn't have to be strict, strict, but it's important to have a signed piece of paper that spells out what is expected from both parents.

 

[tammymacb]

The idiots at my daughter's school allowed my ex to sign her out one day. He isn't on her paperwork ( he lives 1000 miles away and has never lived here- has a DL from another state ) and he's not on the "people who can take this child from school list".

Not only did they not stop him or question him. They didn't contact me.

If he'd wanted to take her back to NY and keep her, he would have been totally able to do that.

I don't understand why there are even rules about this stuff...no one seems to even follow up on it.

 

[Magic Mom]

My friend is separated from her husband. They have an informal custody arrangement whereby each parent gets the two children every other week. Last week, friend's daughter was injured on July 4th. Father waited two days to seek medical care (broken finger/hand) but instead of taking off work to deal with the doctor appointment/x-rays, he sent his girlfriend with the child. (Father has flexibility to take off whenever he wishes - is self-employed, but sent girlfriend instead.) Father was aware that mother WAS available to take child to doctor, but did not notify her. There is nothing on file/no legal arrangement/no permission forms etc. designating the girlfriend as one who has permission to seek non-urgent medical care for the children. Medical insurance is held by the mother.

My friend is now furious that the medical center treated her child without a parent there, or without at least checking with her to see whether it was Ok to treat the child. This "girlfriend" could have been any old person off the street - the medical center didn't know her and she was not listed on any of the paperwork. She doesn't know the child's health history, and could have inadvertently consented to the administration of medication that the child is allergic to. Fortunately, nothing bad happened. Mother was not notified of the visit until 4 days after the original injury.

Is she liable for any cost not covered by insurance? Or should this be the Dad's problem? What can she do to prevent this from happening in the future? This is in Pennsylvania, if it matters. I want it made clear that she is not upset that the child was taken for care (upset that it took so long, but not that care was sought). She IS upset that the child was treated without a parent present and without notification.

I don't understand why she would not want to pay her share of the bill? Because the GF took the child? Why would that make a difference in who pays.

 

[hockeyplayer]

Thanks for the advice. I will pass this information on to her so that she can get the necessary paperwork in order.

 

[Magic Mom]

The idiots at my daughter's school allowed my ex to sign her out one day. He isn't on her paperwork ( he lives 1000 miles away and has never lived here- has a DL from another state ) and he's not on the "people who can take this child from school list".

Not only did they not stop him or question him. They didn't contact me.

If he'd wanted to take her back to NY and keep her, he would have been totally able to do that.

I don't understand why there are even rules about this stuff...no one seems to even follow up on it.

AT our schools, unless there is some legal document stating the parent can not sign the child out of school, the school has no choice but to let them have the child. A parent doesn't need to be on the sign out list.

 

[kwelch10377]

I don't understand why she would not want to pay her share of the bill? Because the GF took the child? Why would that make a difference in who pays.

I would assume because if there was something done that didn't need to be done. For example say the Dr asked if the DD had a particular shot, the GF doesn't know so tells them do go ahead and give her the shot. Turns out the DD had already had the shot, but the GF didn't know. If the mom or dad were there they would have known that she didn't need it. The mom may now have to pay for something that was unnecessary.

 

[ilovemk76]

The idiots at my daughter's school allowed my ex to sign her out one day. He isn't on her paperwork ( he lives 1000 miles away and has never lived here- has a DL from another state ) and he's not on the "people who can take this child from school list".

Not only did they not stop him or question him. They didn't contact me.

If he'd wanted to take her back to NY and keep her, he would have been totally able to do that.

I don't understand why there are even rules about this stuff...no one seems to even follow up on it.

Does the school have a copy of the custody agreement and does it list who is the legal guardian during school hours. If not, then ha is her father and he can take her.

 

[DebbieB]

There should be something in their divorce agreement about who pays medical, including copays.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I'd certainly be much more angry about them waiting 2 days to take the kid in to get it treated than the fact a Gf took the kid in.

 

[ilovemk76]

I would assume because if there was something done that didn't need to be done. For example say the Dr asked if the DD had a particular shot, the GF doesn't know so tells them do go ahead and give her the shot. Turns out the DD had already had the shot, but the GF didn't know. If the mom or dad were there they would have known that she didn't need it. The mom may now have to pay for something that was unnecessary.

I took my nephew to our Dr when he got sick while he was visiting with us. My SIL knew we were taking him. He needed an antibiotic. At 5 he told us he cox not have a certain antibiotic as he gets itchy. We called my SIL from the Dr's and found out he was right and the Dr prescribed another med. I was the only one who talked to my SIL. The Dr treated him without a parent there.

 

[phorsenuf]

The idiots at my daughter's school allowed my ex to sign her out one day. He isn't on her paperwork ( he lives 1000 miles away and has never lived here- has a DL from another state ) and he's not on the "people who can take this child from school list".

Not only did they not stop him or question him. They didn't contact me.

If he'd wanted to take her back to NY and keep her, he would have been totally able to do that.

I don't understand why there are even rules about this stuff...no one seems to even follow up on it.

Not to take this thread off topic (but this is the Dis ) but if your husband is not suppose to be taking the kids, are you kids aware of this? I would think if he came to the school to get them and your child spoke up and said "my dad doesn't have custody of me and I'm not allowed to leave with him", I would imagine the school would probably give you a call then.

 

[tammymacb]

Does the school have a copy of the custody agreement and does it list who is the legal guardian during school hours. If not, then ha is her father and he can take her.

I have physical custody. Her paperwork states that I have physical custody and her father lives in NY state- we live in SC. The school is aware that I have custody.

I called the school when it happened and they apologized, but IMO that's a big mistake.

 

[indimom]

My friend is separated from her husband. They have an informal custody arrangement whereby each parent gets the two children every other week. Last week, friend's daughter was injured on July 4th. Father waited two days to seek medical care (broken finger/hand) but instead of taking off work to deal with the doctor appointment/x-rays, he sent his girlfriend with the child. (Father has flexibility to take off whenever he wishes - is self-employed, but sent girlfriend instead.) Father was aware that mother WAS available to take child to doctor, but did not notify her. There is nothing on file/no legal arrangement/no permission forms etc. designating the girlfriend as one who has permission to seek non-urgent medical care for the children. Medical insurance is held by the mother.

My friend is now furious that the medical center treated her child without a parent there, or without at least checking with her to see whether it was Ok to treat the child. This "girlfriend" could have been any old person off the street - the medical center didn't know her and she was not listed on any of the paperwork. She doesn't know the child's health history, and could have inadvertently consented to the administration of medication that the child is allergic to. Fortunately, nothing bad happened. Mother was not notified of the visit until 4 days after the original injury.

Is she liable for any cost not covered by insurance? Or should this be the Dad's problem? What can she do to prevent this from happening in the future? This is in Pennsylvania, if it matters. I want it made clear that she is not upset that the child was taken for care (upset that it took so long, but not that care was sought). She IS upset that the child was treated without a parent present and without notification.

Does she have reason to mistrust the girlfriend? If not, I would try not to get upset about this. (Talk calmy with dad about her preferences next time it happens, but try not to make a mountain out of a molehill.) I would assume that dad would have warned girlfriend about any allergies or concerns he had if he trusted this woman with his child.
I also do not see the correlation between this concern and who pays the bills.

The idiots at my daughter's school allowed my ex to sign her out one day. He isn't on her paperwork ( he lives 1000 miles away and has never lived here- has a DL from another state ) and he's not on the "people who can take this child from school list".

Not only did they not stop him or question him. They didn't contact me.

If he'd wanted to take her back to NY and keep her, he would have been totally able to do that.

I don't understand why there are even rules about this stuff...no one seems to even follow up on it.

They may have had no choice. See Below.

AT our schools, unless there is some legal document stating the parent can not sign the child out of school, the school has no choice but to let them have the child. A parent doesn't need to be on the sign out list.

It's the same for licensed day cares here in Indiana. Unless you have a legal document saying they cannot take the child, the day care is legally bound to hand them over.

 

[clm10308]

I agree that the mother needs to get a legal custody agreement done.

My DH is a police officer in a small town and has been faced with similar issues several times. Married/unmarked/divorced couple with kids but not legal custody agreement, one parent decides that he/she does not want to follow informal agreement and give kid back. Other parent calls police demanding that first parent be forced to give back child.

Without a official legal document both parents have equal right to child and the police can do nothing.

In this case the medical facility has no responsibility to notify the mom. The father should have done so.

 

[hockeyplayer]

Ok. Got some more information that may answer some of the questions asked by some of you. Issue with payment is this: Child was treated during a weekday, when family doctor DID have hours. Family doctor copay is low. Family doctor would have referred to an orthopedist office for x-rays. Copay there is also low - because these are both in-network facilities. Girlfriend instead chose to take her to an out of network medical facility. Copay will now be more than double what it would have been had proper protocol been followed. That's why friend is upset about financial liability.

Divorce is not finalized. They were JUST in court on Thursday. Left court with a document saying that no medical (except in emergency cases), educational, or religious actions are to be undertaken without knowledge of other parent. Child was taken to medical center the very next day. Mother was not notified until the day after the visit. This seems to be a violation of that order, but without it right in front of me to read the fine print, I don't really know...

 

[cornflake]

I have physical custody. Her paperwork states that I have physical custody and her father lives in NY state- we live in SC. The school is aware that I have custody.

I called the school when it happened and they apologized, but IMO that's a big mistake.

But it's not a mistake, unless he's specifically barred from taking her, he's her father; they can't refuse to turn her over to her legal parent. It's not the same as 'he's not on the list of approved people'; he supercedes the list, same as you, unless he's specifically prohibited for some reason.