Larger Contract than you intended

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by rojen, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. rojen

    rojen Mouseketeer

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    Hi, my wife and I recently came into a windfall. Wanted to use about $5k to purchase a 100 point contract at SSR or OKW. Looking at contracts on the ROFR page, and available resales, we're thinking that a 300 point contract might work better for us.

    We have three girls all under the age of four. Right now we all fit happily into a studio. Obviously things will change. I don't want my girls to have to deal with their disgusting father (me) punishing the toilet every morning on vacation while they're getting ready. So a 1 or 2 bedroom is totally in our future. We'll also be taking a minimum of one trip per year for the foreseeable future.

    So I'm looking at maybe buying a 300 point contract and renting out the extra 200 for the next four years or so. We'd come pretty close to even in the long run. We're liquid enough for it right now to purchase 300 points without borrowing money or putting ourselves into a pinch. I know the MF will be 3x higher per year, but I kinda consider that a wash when thinking about the money we'd save on the AP.

    This seems like a no brainer to me, but am I missing something in my calculations or anything? Anyone else do the same, rent points to reimburse yourself for larger up front costs? I know the market for rentals could change, but I don't see anything crazy happening in the next four years, which is how long we would rent out the extra 200.

    Have stayed at SSR, OKW, and BCV. I'm perfectly happy with SSR if we get 'stuck' there. Actually, I'm kinda confused why people have a problem with SSR, it was absolutely beautiful.
    Thanks in advance for the help
     
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  3. jimim

    jimim DIS Veteran

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    I know a hundred people will have other comments for you re: the amount of points, but just to let you know once ur kids are paying age for disney (above 2) u won't be allowed to stay in a studio. you can't have that many people in them. they won't let u book. 4 is the max. u will be a 1 bedroom family prey much so I would be looking at more points even for just 1 trip per year.

    jim
     
  4. BrerNashville

    BrerNashville DIS Veteran

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    I'd think seriously about just purchasing the 100 now, put the cash you would have spent on the other 200 in a safe account (I know, paltry interest) and buy the extra points when you need them.

    Most people on these boards will predict to you that point prices will continue to drop year after year, so you should ask yourself whether the extra $$ you will net on rental over the dues for those extra 200 points will outweigh the sum of (i) the decrease in point price over the next two years, plus (ii) whatever headaches, risks, etc. you have to put up with to rent the points. Perhaps the latter is not so bad if you assign your points to someone else to rent for you, but there is no guarantee those extra points will actually get rented.

    If prices fall by $5-$6 per year, you are awfully close to just break even.
     
  5. rojen

    rojen Mouseketeer

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    Have prices been dropping that much? Also, what risk is there to renting points? I've rented and it seems like all the risk is on the person paying for the points as opposed to renting out the points. I figure a rental contract with an indemnity clause will protect from any shenanigans by the renter, and you usually get the money upfront.
     
  6. lilpooh108

    lilpooh108 DIS Veteran

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    Funny, but ewh.

    I'd go for something between 100 and 300. 200 points per year to rent out is alot, and gets rather annoying. An indemnity clause will help you only if you're willing to sue your renter in his home state...unless you put other things in the contract but what a PITA.

    Or, buy a few smaller contracts. They're easier to sell. You "overpay" for them initially, but if/when you need to sell your 300 pt-er will be sitting on the shelf for LONG time.

    We have 400+ points made up of various contracts, and just sold one to bring us down to 350+. That contract sold in less than a day. Something to think about.
     
  7. DougEMG

    DougEMG DIS Veteran

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    Compare the two situations for the total costs:

    Case 1: Buy 300 points now, use 100 points a year and then rent out 200 points a year for 4 years. After that use all 300 points every year.

    Case 2: Buy 100 points now and 200 points in 4 years.


    So the only difference is it better to buy the extra 200 points now or later. Assuming MF of $5/point and rental income of $10/point (renting through a broker) that gives you $5/point extra for each of 4 years. Or a total of $20/point over the 4 years.

    Will resale prices drop by more than $20/point over 4 years? Will MF rise faster? Will rental rates change? Will you be able to rent out your points?

    I personally bought more points than I can use right now because I bought for what I wanted to do in retirement (4-5 years away) and am renting out the extra points.
     
  8. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    Going from the current need of 100 pts to a 300 point contract is a large jump both in total price and in yearly dues. While you'll get a better pp price, I don't believe it'll be enough to justify the extra costs and risks. I do agree with going larger than 100 assuming your planning on using them at DVC resorts only. I would not go all the way to 300, I'd look at 150-200, basically few enough that you can bank for a couple of years then get a 1 BR. If you aim for places like OKW, AKV and BLT for the 1 BR, that should be a good options and point of reference. Even a 100 pt contract at SSR that is loaded will get you pretty far for a while.

    I don't think many people have a problem with SSR, however, the reality is that it has a lower demand compared to all other on property resorts and that has an effect on the system, esp the 7 month reservation window.
     
  9. bumbershoot

    bumbershoot DIS Veteran

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    The AP discount is a perk that *could* go away at any time. I would be careful using that as a reason to deal with the MFs.


    We're a family of 3 and only reluctantly book a studio, by the way. It's just too much fun to have lots of space in the 1 bedroom! If I were thinking of buying lots of points, I would just start off by booking the 1 bedroom instead of the studio. :)
     
  10. Mtnman44

    Mtnman44 DIS Veteran

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    I would definately want to own several contracts in smaller chunks. While 300 points total is not a huge amount of points for many people, a 300 point contract is on the large side. As such, there are fewer buyers if you ever wanted to get rid of it. They also sell at a lower per point price.

    Having smaller contracts is desireable. As long as they are all the same UY and same resort, there is functionally no difference in their use. However, you get the added benefits of flexibility and to some degree, liquidity as smaller contracts can sell very fast, and a per point premuim.
     
  11. rojen

    rojen Mouseketeer

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    Thanks for the replies, definitely have more to think about now. We've been doing well financially recently, and just came into a large windfall. I just worry that we'll never be so flush with cash as to be able to add on more in the future. I'd just kick myself if we spend the next decade renting hundreds of points a year and have nothing to show for it. Kinda like the rent vs buy thing for buying a house.

    When buying multiple contracts through a broker, I assume you have to pay multiple closing costs too? Unless they're from the same seller?
     
  12. johnsbelt

    johnsbelt Mouseketeer

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    You are correct on the closing costs.

    That said, I agree with several PPs. Purchase a little smaller contract now (say about 150 points) and start by going every other year in a 1 bedroom. This way you can take other annual vacations. Put the extra funds in a CD (yes I know rates stink) to see if you really want to go every year. If you are in a bind for more points, you can always find a member to transfer you the points to use for one of the trips. The sponsor of this board provides this service.

    I have done the transfer route a couple of times now. I purchased 50 points at BLT a couple of years ago and the DD and future DSIL went last year while I wanted more points to suprise my wife this year with a 1 Bedroom for our 25th anniv. While my resale saved me a little, it was also the only way to get a smaller contract as we only want to go every other to every third year.

    While nothing is guarenteed, the best part is the flexibility.

    Hope the board input isn't overwhelming you.

    John
     
  13. Caren90

    Caren90 DIS Veteran

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    Each contract you purchase will require separate closing costs.

    My two cents: Buy what you will use now and when you need to purchase more, the points may end up being less expensive on the resale market, especially a few years down the road.
    Good luck.
    Stephen
     
  14. Caren90

    Caren90 DIS Veteran

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    Great point about transfers John. Transferring points into your account will give you control over how and when you use them.

    Stephen
     
  15. zavandor

    zavandor DIS Veteran

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    If you buy 3 contracts for 100 points each, you'll be able to gift one each to your daugthers, if you'll want in the future. So you could buy one now and buy the others when you'll find them.
     
  16. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    Two thing that I would consider going forward. The first is how you will be able to afford this contract and the associated trip costs without the benefit of any future windfalls. Maintenance fees on 300 points are in the neighborhood of $1,500 and going up every year. Transportation, tickets, food, etc. will likely cost twice that at least. If these numbers doesn't bother you, then you should go ahead with your plan of owning 300 points. As for whether or not you should buy it all now or wait, look to Excel for the answer. Numbers don't lie. :)

    The second is your likelihood of future Disney vacations. I get very nervous when people say that they are going to buy DVC based on predicted vacation patterns. You have a much higher chance of a successful ownership if your decision is made on a combination of a track record of visiting Disney and staying in Deluxes combined with a predicted future vacation pattern. If you feel this describes you, it's another plus for ownership.
     
  17. rojen

    rojen Mouseketeer

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    That's the thing, we can easily afford to rent points and pay for tickets once or twice a year into the foreseeable future. Just not sure if we'll have twenty grand sitting around with nothing demanding it be spent again.

    The math definitely works out, it's just the idea of writing a check or wire transfer for that much is kinda scary.
     
  18. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    Well if you can afford the point rental prices then you can definitely afford the maintenance fees. I understand about the sticker shock, but you'll get over it. :) The one thing to think of is whether or not you'd be more comfortable having the $20,000 sitting an an account with no demands on it...just in case.
     
  19. Deb & Bill

    Deb & Bill DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention

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    Not a good thing to even consider. By the time your three, all under four, daughters are old enough to pay DVC dues on their own, the dues will be horrible. Don't even consider buying to leave to your prodigy at this point.

    Buy for yourself and your family. And go from there if you want to buy. But don't saddle your babies with future DVC dues when they haven't even started kindergarten.
     
  20. staceymay00

    staceymay00 DIS Veteran

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    I would start with around 150 points and add on later if you want more points down the road. We bought 150 points at OKW a few years ago. We thought we'd start out staying in 1BRs (three kids as well), but decided on a 2BR for our first trip and never looked back. We really need 50-100 more points to stay in a 2BR for 5-7 nights at the times we travel, but I can't bring myself to buy more points. No regrets at all that we bought, but it is amazing how quickly school/activity schedules and expenses for three kids can change. We may end up taking shorter trips every year, or a week long trip every 1.5-2 years. I don't want to be in the position of taking trips just to use our points, or renting points, so for now we will continue to be creative in stretching our points for an annual trip (like staying offsite once every few years, adding a couple of cash nights at a favorite non-DVC resort if we can get a good rate, etc.). If you do decide to buy 300 pts now, you might want to buy two contracts anyway in case down the road you decide you don't need as many points. You can then sell one contract. It will cost you a little more buying resale this way, but you'll still save quite a lot over buying direct.

    Sent from my iPad using DISBoards
     
  21. Sammie

    Sammie DIS Veteran

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    Is college taken care of for the kids? I agree with the others, I would go with 150 and see how it fits.
     

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