Juneteenth set to become a federal holiday in the USA

[MOPNB]

Telling someone their opinion on the name is "white privilege" is no OK. People seem to forget that not all white people had slaves or agreed with it. My grandma was a slave herself. She was taken at 16, stripped naked, violated, and then sent to work on a farm at the mercy of the farmer. White people have been slaves in the last century. Even though this did not happen in the US, slavery is not just a black person issue. It has affected almost every single culture in history. This Country does a horrible job of teaching history but it includes all of us. To divide people even more by saying in essence, "you are white, so you don't get an opinion", is not the right way to go about having a conversation about the holiday.

Great point.
When my relatives arrived in the 1800s they were called "indentured servants." From wiki: Indentures agreed to provide up to seven years of labor in return for passage to the New World and food, housing, and shelter during their indenture. At the end of this period, their masters were legally required to grant them "freedom dues" in the form of either land or capital.
My family members got small sections of land, that at some point was bought up by the government again anyway for highways.

 

[4Hawks]

When people seem to be offended about what seems like everything it just becomes background noise after a while.

Maybe, but we can’t legislate people’s emotions…it’s not for anyone to decide how others should feel.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Not sure I agree with you. Cancel culture seems to be a relative new term (to me at least, maybe not to you). It may be two sided, not sure since I seem to agree with one side. People in general seem to go one way or the other, just the way it is. Different strokes for different folks?

Funny thing is that now it seems like the people I considered to be part of the "cancel culture" are starting to eat their own. Attacking people who usually attacked the right. Interesting development. We shouldn't try to take peoples voices away (cancel them) unless we want our own voices taken away. What goes around comes around?

I don’t want to derail this thread, nor get it locked because I think it’s an important conversation being had, but I don’t know how you can’t see it isn’t one sided - you even point out that you agree with one side. How is cancelling Coke & MLB because of the All Star game, not cancel culture? NFL? NASCAR? NBA? The list goes on and on.

I do agree the term is new and coined by one side. But it’s hypocritical because they’re doing it as well. In any case, if you’d like to discuss it further, feel free to DM me and I can explain further how it is absolutely not one sided.

I know what free speech is. And I obviously was not referring to anything that you are talking about. But my point is very valid. Discussing a name of a holiday is an acceptable topic and I don't feel that people should be told to just shut up about it or made to feel like they did something wrong for having an opinion. If it was any other holiday, we would not be having this discussion. There is a difference between disagreeing and giving your point of view and telling someone that they are "white privileged" for having an opinion on a name. I am not saying that I agree with it, just that I don't like seeing people being name called and shut down for having their opinion. And are far as "one sided". there is a difference between giving your opinion and your side of the discussion, and name calling to try to shut someone up.

Ok I can accept you misspoke because you absolutely did put them into the same thought. And you didn’t talk about general free speech. You specifically said it’s in the Constitution. The one in the Constitution has nothing to do with being able to express an opinion here.

Now I agree with you that everybody should be able to express an opinion here. But then they also need to be ready to accept the feedback they get, even when they don’t like it.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Which "both sides" are you talking about?

Both sides of the political spectrum. That’s partly why the President wants this happen. All races can view the holiday as a stand for dignity and equality. My earlier post was trying to get that across. I respect the meaning and history of the day. I hope what I said was not perceived as offensive. Many on this board want the holiday to feel inclusive to everyone. So I was trying to explain a personal story to emphasize how those of us with different backgrounds can celebrate the holiday too because of everyone’s family struggles of the past. MLK Jr. Day represents civil rights for all ethnicities. Why can’t Juneteenth, going beyond the literal historical component, be similar? All holidays have different meanings personally to a variety of people. Having an expanded meaning of a holiday makes it more inclusive and does not detract any significance/meaning from its original interpretation. Just my thoughts. Thank you for your reply.

 

[4Hawks]

This here is where I see the problem. No one group has "ownership" over this holiday. It's now a Federal holiday so it belongs to us all not just one group and again as Buzz Rules said a few pages back and Lilsia said a few post above black people are not the only people who have experienced slavery.

That is some mental gymnastics right there…

Not sure why it being a federal holiday changes anything. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Perhaps a holiday that celebrates the end of other forms of indentured servitude in this country would be more appropriate? Instead of trying to co-opt one that celebrates the end of African slavery.

 

[kelpricer]

Somehow this thread morphed the term white privilege into a term used for anyone that had been slaves???? Maybe you don’t understand what the definition of white privilege is? You can disagree with the poster who accused someone of it but you can’t defend the accusation because white people were slaves too

 

[seshat0120]

This here is where I see the problem. No one group has "ownership" over this holiday. It's now a Federal holiday so it belongs to us all not just one group and again as Buzz Rules said a few pages back and Lilsia said a few post above black people are not the only people who have experienced slavery.

"Whataboutism" at its best. Juneteenth is not about every person who has ever been enslaved. It is about the emancipation of enslaved black people in America. To try to make it about anything else so one can feel comfortable with it - to want the name changed to something less "silly" so it can be understood is white privilege at its finest. Don't understand the name...look it up. The link in the first post explained it in the first sentence. If it makes one uncomfortable that it commemorates something that happened to black people and not white, perhaps one should reflect on oneself and wonder why that is.

For those who feel "excluded" from Juneteenth and need to find a way to make it about them, I wonder if there's also the same feeling of exclusion over Christmas...a day that commemorates an event specific to Christians...basically excluding non Christians. And before the "Christmas is celebrated secularly by many", let's not forget how ever year people get all up in arms about the "War n=on Christmas" and "put Christ back in Christmas".

 

[tzolkin]

Telling someone their opinion on the name is "white privilege" is no OK. ...
To divide people even more by saying in essence, "you are white, so you don't get an opinion", is not the right way to go about having a conversation about the holiday.

But, the thing is I think most people's opposition to the name actually IS the result of being white and feeling uncomfortable with it because it sounds too "black". So I think this is really something where race and background affects how people feel. I do agree with you that having a conversation with opinions and feelings from a variety of perspectives is important, but I think it would be impossible to have a real dialogue without acknowledging that race does play a role in those opinions and feelings.

An analogy would be a black community making a sign for an event that used African-American Vernacular English and white individuals coming along and saying, "You need to change the wording on this sign to make it more 'proper' and grammatically correct. Having a sign that says this will make some people uncomfortable." Sure, those folks' opinions are valid that having a sign with AAVE will probably make it less universally appealing. But that doesn't mean the black community should automatically change the sign just to appease the white people who are bothered. That would be a good opportunity for both communities to have an honest conversation about why they feel that way and then weighing the pros and cons of a new sign rather than just assuming one is right and one is wrong.

 

[soccerdad72]

Telling someone their opinion on the name is "white privilege" is no OK.

That's not what I asked. That's a poster expressing an opinion, just like you expressed opinions about the name. Nowhere in that exchange did anyone say you couldn't express your opinion.

 

[MOPNB]

That is some mental gymnastics right there…

Not sure why it being a federa holiday changes anything. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Perhaps a holiday that celebrates the end of other forms of indentured servitude in this country would be more appropriate? Instead of trying to co-opt one that celebrates the end of slavery as it was defined in 1865 (as far as i know, only Africans and their descendants were slaves back then).

No disagreement, just adding to the conversation...
Mine came from Ireland as an "indentured," in 1858. At least that was when my 4th great-grandfather arrived in New York.
I do not know the dates when their "servitude" was up.
In 1862 he was still in New York and arrived in a Northern or "free" state in before 1865. His servitude date should have been up around 1865.
My husband's grandfather came from Germany in a similar fashion.

The difference, they "agreed," albeit begrudgingly, to their servitude.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Mods please monitor the thread so it doesn’t end up locked.

 

[TippyThomas]

Wow, this has been an interesting and disappointing read.

 

[Lilsia]

Now I agree with you that everybody should be able to express an opinion here. But then they also need to be ready to accept the feedback they get, even when they don’t like it.

Feedback is great, calling people names is not.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I feel the name is dumb. It's just a slang term. Let's give it a real voice and a proper name. That is my opinion. Yes I am white. But this is MY country and MY holiday and I would appreciate a more formal and celebratory name than "Juneteenth". This will very quickly turn into just another summer holiday, another "Memorial Day" or "Veteran's Day" where people are celebrating having a day off/three day weekend and not at all thinking about the reason why this is a holiday.

 

[Lilsia]

Mods please monitor the thread so it doesn’t end up locked.

The conversation has been civil. This is another thing that is annoying, people trying to have the thread go how they want it to. If there are not differences of opinions, then there is no point to these forums. They are discussion forums.

 

[4Hawks]

No disagreement, just adding to the conversation...
Mine came from Ireland as an "indentured," in 1858. At least that was when my 4th great-grandfather arrived in New York.
I do not know the dates when their "servitude" was up.
In 1862 he was still in New York and arrived in a Northern or "free" state in before 1865. His servitude date should have been up around 1865.
My husband's grandfather came from Germany in a similar fashion.

The difference, they "agreed," albeit begrudgingly, to their servitude.

Thanks for explaining that. I did not mean to discount your family’s experience, so I will edit my post.

I think it’s important to distinguish between this type of servitude and slavery (and you do that here, thank you). Both are terrible, but different things.

This particular holiday is about the liberation of African slaves, brought to this country against their will and to serve for the rest of their lives, and the lives of their descendants.

 

[Cheburashka]

black people are not the only people who have experienced slavery.

Actually, black people were the only people to experience the form of American chattel slavery that was so prevalent from the mid-1600's through the mid-1800's in the United States. It ended in 1865, and that is what there is a federal holiday to celebrate. It was a uniquely African-American experience.

Sorry not sorry to those who would like to pretend otherwise. Indentured servitude was not slavery, and did not even begin to resemble the experience that African-American slaves endured for 200 years of American history.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I feel the name is dumb. It's just a slang term. Let's give it a real voice and a proper name. That is my opinion. Yes I am white. But this is MY country and MY holiday and I would appreciate a more formal and celebratory name than "Juneteenth". This will very quickly turn into just another summer holiday, another "Memorial Day" or "Veteran's Day" where people are celebrating having a day off/three day weekend and not at all thinking about the reason why this is a holiday.

It is not your holiday. And not your country alone. It’s not a slang term and has historical context to it. Maybe take a minute and look it up?

If this post is real and not satire, it represents everything wrong with this conversation.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I feel the name is dumb. It's just a slang term. Let's give it a real voice and a proper name. That is my opinion. Yes I am white. But this is MY country and MY holiday and I would appreciate a more formal and celebratory name than "Juneteenth".

This is not a good start to having a respectable, constructive conversation.

Actually, black people were the only people to experience the form of American chattel slavery that was so prevalent from the mid-1600's through the mid-1800's in the United States. It ended in 1865, and that is what there is a federal holiday to celebrate. It was a uniquely African-American experience.

I understand that view but slavery existed in different forms in American society since its founding. Our diversity makes us stronger as a country but common adversity in our pasts unites us as one people. Like I said earlier, MLK Jr Day means so much to all races not just one.

 

[4Hawks]

Your persuasive arguments have changed my mind. I agree, the name should be changed to make it more inclusive.

While we're at it, Christmas should also get a more inclusive name. After all, it's a federal holiday, so it belongs to everyone, and a growing number of people in this country are not Christian. I propose "National Gift Giving day".

Who's with me?!

(Just in case - I'm being sarcastic in order to illustrate my point)