Jim Hill for President!! - Another GREAT article!!

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK, so president may be a bit much, but I do think he's got his finger on the pulse of Disney. He shoves some verbs next to some nouns and conveys the slow disintegration of the Disney Corporation so much better than I can. All my long posts, ravings and esoteric essays over the past year is summed up beautifully in this article. His reluctance to write, yet again, another negative Disney story. His saddened reaction at what is so apparently wrong (to him at least) with this company. For me, every word rang true. It's as if he went inside my head and picked out the feeling, and put them into easy to read words.

Hill Article

Well. What did you think of it?

 

[HBK]

I don't think I need to re-iterate my stance on this issue....

but one thing hit me when reading the article. And that was how it seems like Hill's struggling to shake the "negative" image his writing has suggested. I sometimes feel that way as well.

The reason we bark so loudly about declines in maintenance, cutbacks to the guest experince (the magic if you will), etc is this.....we care. We want the Disney company & Disney experince of old. We don't want to have a company which BLATANTLY has their hand in our pockets to see how much they can get. Just as Hill wrote, the company could have had the intent of making a "Titanic" sized blockbuster with Pearl....but they didn't have to tell us that. They could have said "We've got something special here....something we're proud of."

Ei$ner has done this....but for the wrong movie. In his letter to the Cast Members, he spoke so glowingly about the Anne Frank movie on ABC. No refrences to Ratings, ad dollars, etc. He just said he felt proud that the Disney company could produce such a movie. It wouldn't have been that hard to do the same for Pearl.

But Hey....Who knows...maybe one day my son will go to "Dreamworld" and run around wearing green ears.

 

[YoHo]

The article is good, As usual, I disagree with his take on certain of the minutia. (such as mistating the underwear issue) That should be excusable, since I think his point is valid. (but I know others around here who will jump on it, myself often enough included)


I'm willing to forgive Pearl Harbor, mainly, because I really enjoyed the movie, but I have a problem with Atlantis. Atlantis is winning reasonable praise from audiences and critics, yet Disney is already distancing himself. Maybe I'm just a Nieve Midwest downtoearth kind of guy, but If I had a movie that was getting good critical and audience review, I wouldn't back away. I'd stand by it. Just as Disney shouldn't be shackled by what the other themeparks do, they shouldn't be shackled by what other film companies do. I think there are plenty of people who both don't care for, or are willing to see both shrek and traditional. jut be disney and it will work.

 

[J. Thornhill]

I don't think Rock N' Roller Coaster is "lightly themed," do you? I think its pretty heavily themed if you ask me. The attention to detail along the queue is terrific and the loading area is out of this world.

Anyone?

Jonathan

 

[JeffJewell]

...is considered "lightly themed" for several reasons.

First, the items in the queue area, while fun to look at, can be acquired largely from pawn shops. Speaking as a guitar player who mainly uses a 1963 guitar and a 1964 amp, some of the items are reproductions. Also, the use of FastPass has cut out a big chunk of the internal ride queue, meaning guests don't even see the lion's share of the display, anymore. The queue area was "themed" in the same manner that the walls at TGIFriday's are themed.

Second, the load/unload area is "themed" to be a basement parking garage. There was not much Imagineering that went into the design, and not much more than brick and concrete that went into the construction.

Finally, the ride itself is "themed" to be an Interstate highway. Again, no Imagineer brains were strained during design, and the flourescent paint and black lights used in the execution could be gotten at your local Spencer gift shop (ah, irony).

Don't get me wrong, none of these points mean that Rock 'n' Roller Coaster cannot be fun or cannot be enjoyed... I personally think it's quite a fun ride (although it's way short).

But it's clearly another example of Disney strangling its own Imagineering department by purchasing ride mechs from outside and low-balling the theming budget. Even though R'n'RC is fun for a lot of people, the trend of hacking up the Imagineering department is unmistakable. I believe the trend is also dangerous to Disney's business, because I feel it was the work of the Imagineers that created the environment for all of our individual visions of the Magic.

Jeff

PS: Another way to look at "lightly themed" is to wonder what Aerosmith has to do with Disney-MGM Studios' alledged theme of 1940's Hollywood.

PPS: If the trend to widen the definition of "Studios" continues, we can probably expect the next DVC project to be all one-room units; the Disney Studios Studios... Phil Collins can do the theme song...

 

[BRERALEX]

As usual i dont have much to contribute here but article after article it seems just too late for Disney to recoup from all these bad things. i see it too hard to reestablish themselves as a solid brand and all these posts and all these discussions even though I love reading them are all for nothing because nothing can be done.

 

[All Aboard]

In response to BrerAlex,

First, I agree that the Disney Brand has slipped a bit. However, it is not at the low point that it was in the late 70's / early 80's when Disney movies had little luster.

Eisner's success seems founded on rekindling that brand. With the huge successes at the theater from 1989 to 1994 and the Disney Brand had once again peaked.

--------

There are those moments that define a man. Decisions he makes that shape his future. I fear I am about to make one of those decisions...

Perhaps it is time for Disney to refocus and head in a new direction. Perhaps Eisner is not the man to lead that charge.

---I now cower in fear that JJ, DVC, et al will rush me like the bulls in Pamplona.---

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

gcurling!! Welcome to fold!

The car pool departs daily. You can drive if you like.




Por favor mantengan se alejado de las puertas

 

[JeffJewell]

I now cower in fear that JJ, DVC, et al will rush me like the bulls in Pamplona

Heck, I'll even buy you a drink.

Jeff

PS: Which reminds me of something. Lest anyone still believe I'm nothing but a Disney/Eisner basher, I still see some places in Disney World where it's obvious that they're going all out to put the best possible product in front of the customer. Here is a list of the places where Suzy and I were completely blown away, either on our honeymoon last week or on our November 2000 or March 2001 trips: Jiko, Liberty Tree Tavern (for lunch. I'm not really impressed with the buffets), Kona Cafe, The Coral Reef, Shula's Steak House (okay, not really Disney, but it must be mentioned), The Hollywood Brown Derby, California Grill, San Angel Inn, Le Cellier... you get the idea. Many of the restaurants still drip with Disney quality and attention to detail. The non-restaurant highlights of this recent trip were The Power of Blast! show and getting to ride Space Mountain with the lights on.

 

[larworth]

Jeff, you had me worried there for a minute.

I thought someone must have slipped a pressler (instead of a mickey) in your drink while you weren't looking when you started listing all those restaurants.

It's a nasty little pill that makes you forget about e ticket rides and only focus on places where you can spend money. They are working on getting it into granular form so they can put it into the salt shakers.

However, I started to have my doubts when you didn't have any gift shops on your list. Very rare that someone doesn't develop this effect. The clincher for me though was you enjoyed riding Space Mountain with the lights on. A pressler induced person would never have said that as having the lights on costs extra money.

Glad to see you are OK afterall. Hope you had a great honeymoon.

 

[JeffJewell]

you didn't have any gift shops on your list

Actually, thanks for giving me this opening. I'm pretty cranky about the gift shops. Even beyond the fact that every ride must now exit through one, I have a problem with the shops themselves, at this point.

For example, the new Agrabah market. If you haven't seen the make-over yet, the most visible change is that there are now tent-like awnings stretching from the existing shops, providing shade for the wheeled racks of Aladdin merchandise you must drag your kids past for a Magic Carpet ride. There were probably decorative changes to the buildings themselves that I'm glossing over, but again, the theming or lack thereof is not what stuck in my craw this time.

The three shops that previously existed still exist in much the same state as before, but the merchandise has changed somewhat, particularly in Elephant Tales. The majority of product in Elephant Tales is now the same stuff that is offered in Harambe at Animal Kingdom. We later discovered the same exact stuff in the Morocco Pavilion at Epcot.

If you're going to put a shop every four steps, at least give me some variety, you know? Several years ago, I bought a nice Adventureland polo shirt in Elephant Tales, and almost bought a Tomorrowland polo at Mickey's Star Traders, but didn't care for the colors as much. Little did I know that would be the last chance I'd have. Now, all the shops have the same, generic "Magic Kingdom" shirts, or even worse, simply the same "Walt Disney World" shirts available in all the parks and all the resorts.

I did get an Animal Kingdom Lodge polo; the resorts still do generally have a couple exclusive items, if you're willing to poke around through all the more generic items.

Anyway, sorry for dragging you all off-topic. Just wanted to mention that there are some instances when I was trying hard to spend some money, but Disney wasn't coming close to offering any unique, exicting or even interesting products.

Jeff

PS: Don't anyone get me started on how there were eight CM's working the (at that point) bereft of customers Agrabah Market shops, while Disney couldn't be bothered to staff the Sunshine Tree Terrace until 11:00. It's almost impossible (we chose not to stand in the enormous line for the single open register at Cosmic Ray's) to buy something cold at MK until after 11:00 (we found the little house beside the Fairy Tale grotto, along the little-used path from the hub towards the Tea Cups, was actually open and selling frozen lemonades), which made for some uncomfortable June mornings. I pity you August visitors...

 

[CapHook]

On the subject of merchandise for Atlantis ... My kids are pretty burned out on the whole movie merchandising thing. They don't want any of it. I think Star Wars I was the last big merchandising coup that is going to be pulled off. I don't think it is limited to Disney. I think they are looking at the fact that the Atlantis stuff is not moving and discount based on that not off of the fact that the movie only did 20 Mil.

 

[YoHo]

JeffJ, Harambe, Morroco and adventureland have had the same merchandise at least since june of 1999.

Not that that's a good thing, but it is true.

They also sell the glass work on mainstreet, in adventureland, AND in the Mexico exhibit. I think its elsewhee as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[JeffJewell]

Harambe, Morroco and adventureland have had the same merchandise at least since june of 1999

I wouldn't be complaining if the unique items hadn't disappeared at some point during that time span.

It's not that a specific item is available more than one place, it's that more and more of the same items are _all_ that's available in more and more places. The glass is another example (you left out at least Downtown Disney as a source), there are plenty more examples that it would benefit no one to list.

Jeff

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

JeffJ, Harambe, Morroco and adventureland have had the same merchandise at least since june of 1999.

I don't think anyone alluded to this being a brand new concept. It's been slowly going this way for quite a while now. My wife first pointed it out to me on our '97 or '98 trip. You used to be able to pick up unique shirts or coffee cups (I collect them) at the different resorts. I learned long ago, if I found something that struck my fancy at the Contemporary, for example, I'd better jump on it. Not so today. The Poly, the Floridian, The Marketplace, and the Emporium will ALL have the same thing.

Kind of sad when you think of it. At least to me it is. I love resort hopping. Taking in the atmosphere of the other resorts. Trying out a restaurant, checking out the pool, and doing a little shopping for that unique little something. But today, one of those pleasures has been taken away. Just save all the shopping for the last day and hit the Marketplace or the Emporium. EVERYTHING can be found there.

 

[YoHo]

Actually, as of the last time I was there, (jan 2000) and my trip to DL, they still had one or two unique items at the various resort gift shops. And there are still places in MK and the rest of the world that have unique merchandise such as PotC which has PotC merchandise. But, most of it is available everywhere. that's the biggest thing I'd change from a store perspective if I were in charge. More important then removing them from ride exits.


P.S. Jeff, you mean they sold something other then the Pooh characters in safari outfits and Lion King/Jungle book/Tarzan merch stuff?

Yeah that's what I need 12 places to buy the same @#$% plush toy. You've got me there for a week or more to see four supposedly unique parks, wouldn't it make more sense to sell 4 different types of merchandise? I mean, then your more likely to get 4 purchases. as it is, I'm only going to buyy one tigger (which I did in 1999) from one of the 4 stores, depending on when it strikes me as a good time. every other store that has it is wasting my time.

 

[Moriarty]

After reading all of the replies to the original message, the question I used as the subject of this post came to mind. It seems that the Disney company has been in an analogous position before during the 1970s and early 80s when the company's animated films were not very good and not a lot of innovative things were being built at the theme parks. Hopefully (and that's a BIG HOPE), Disney is going through a cycle as most companies, economies, and other processes do, and we are near bottom where the only place to go is up.

I don't know what happened to Michael Eisner to turn him into this apparent money hungry executive. Maybe it's the fact that he couldn't find the right person to balance the imagination needed in a company such as Disney against his management style after Frank Wells died. We probably will never know.

One thing is for certain, even though things look dark (really dark) right now for the Walt Disney Company, I think that things will turn around. When you ask? I don't know. But like I said above, there was a time when it looked like there wasn't a light at the end of the tunnel, but it eventually came. Just wait. Keep up the posts about the degradation in quality, and someone in a position to do something about it will listen.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

It seems that the Disney company has been in an analogous position before during the 1970s and early 80s when the company's animated films were not very good and not a lot of innovative things were being built at the theme parks.

This is NOT a true statement. Some say the ‘70’s was the “Golden Age” of Disney (myself included). And while the animation did kind of suck in the late seventies and early eighties, the parks couldn’t have been better. And remember 1981 saw the opening of EPCOT!!! WOW!! Talk about “theme park” power!!

It must also be kept in mind that it was in fact Ron Miller that started Touchstone and the turn around in live action actually began under his tenure with the release of their first film: Splash. Also, many don’t realize that the Little Mermaid was well under development BEFORE Ei$ner & crew took command and it was Katzenberg that pushed for it’s finish, OVER the objections of Ei$ner. The story is that Ei$ner relented only to keep Roy Disney quiet.

So, the decline was already turning around. And the parks were a technological wonder. Imagineering was running high. New and wonderful things were being developed and implemented at a tremendous rate.

And that’s the difference I see. Instead of gearing up the animation department and developing concepts like the Little Mermaid, Ei$ner is gutting the department. Instead of innovating and creating a park, which was unlike any park, before or after, (EPCOT) they are building ½ parks using off the shelf rides and cardboard cutouts (DCA). Instead of creating an historic EPIC, artful, inventive and inspired, they put out something that was geared to make money (Pearl Harbor). And they even failed at that.

No! There are HUGE differences between the Disney of 1983 and the Disney of today. And I really don’t see any end in sight.

Keep up the posts about the degradation in quality, and someone in a position to do something about it will listen.

And to think, this was going to be my last post. I thought we were just pis.. ah… well… spinning our wheels! I was going to give up. But… since you asked so nice. Well, I guess I’ll just have to keep it up!!!!




OK!! Side Note:
Sunday was Father’s day. You all know what that means!! YEP! That’s right, The Quotable Walt Disney is now in my hot little hands!! So….

QUOTE OF THE DAY - From page 97 (on business and the Walt Disney Company):

“Anything that has a Disney name to it is something we feel responsible for.”

Hmmm. Don’t ya just wish Ei$ner felt the same way?

 

[airlarry!]

I respectfully disagree on the DCA v. America thing. I think that this topic comes down to which side of the fence you are on:

1. You wanted Eisner to give us a Disney Seas built like DLP was built...in other words, you are asking Disney to shoot for quality & excellence in a park, instead of starting with a 1/2 park charging full price the entire time Disney slowly fills it up. Anything less then this is, for you, a failure by Disney.

or

2. You appreciate the revitalization of Animation, you enjoy the doubling of gates and quadrupling of themed hotel rooms, water parks, DD, etc, and say to yourself Eisner is giving the visitors more at a reasonable price, and at a cost that remains safe with the shareholders money. You remember that when MGM was built, the parking lot had to be doubled in size immediately because it was initially underplanned for parking.

Me? I'm a #1. And I used to be a #2. I kept saying to myself, look at the quality and the quantity Michael E. has given us. But now I realize that for every bit of quality he has given us, he has taken away. It is a wash.

Jim Hill is the media spokesman for all us little guys who want the Disney Company to be the best...to hit homeruns instead of singles everytime(remember Eisner's analogy in the movie business?). And Mike E, that does *not* mean an E*ticket ride every six months! It means give us the best park you can, and *then* we will reward the company with money, and loyalty, and support. Jim Hill's article, coupled with Al's alleged information from Disney 2000, just means that the company IN ITS PRESENT STATE OF MANAGEMENT cares more to deceive the shareholders with shaky short-term numbers than it does in providing quality at a premium cost.

You can read in Jim Hill's words that he is pulling for Disney to be #1, but is sad to report that his beloved team is in danger of losing the pennant.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

but Eisner is never given the credit he deserves for what Disney America would have been but for a well-heeled lobby against it.

I'd be glad to give Ei$ner credit. IF he would have built it. And IF it would not have been 'value engineered', as is his style and track record. Somehow I have a hard time giving someone credit for a failed plan, no matter how grand it might have seemed.

But maybe that's just me.



2nd Quote of the day - From page 108 - on success and failure:

Get a good idea, and stay with it. Dog it, and work at it until it's done, and done right.