I've gotten so much help with my FIL situation. Thanks!!

[CaliforniaDreamin]

PT2
I am next going to call adult services if there is one nearby. We live in a tiny town so I may have to do some digging to find out who handles this..thank goodness for cell phones, no long distance charges.

We haven't even considered getting power of attorney. I will certainly suggest it. He is in his right mind and is still very sharp. He just gets confused easily and of course, right now is in no position to make financial decisions. He is not the only one in the family who doesn't want the house sold. None of his kids want to see it sold either. Personally, I would because my FIL has no will. He WANTS the government to get it because he is afraid that all the kids will end up fighting over who will get how much and there have been several indications over the years that this is a liklihood. My DH wants nothing. He has been disgusted by some of the comments about the way his brothers and sisters have faught with each other over the land and house when their parents died. He told me that he is going to tell them all he wants nothing. MY dad heard this and told him that he knew it would be nasty but for Rodney not to throw his hands up and not fight for a share. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

My nephew (who is actually older than me, lol) is the branch manager of a local NC State Employee credit union. It was his dad that died last month. I will ask him about a reverse mortgage. I'm sure he will have some info on that.

Their church was actually one he co founded decades ago. But it's just a small country church. I don't think they can help us, but I will ask the preacher. (He has a FT job outside of the church and lives in his own house. This is just to give you guys an idea of how small a church it is. I'm guessing he gets some salary from the church, but it can't be much and there is no parsonage).

Thank you dnsymom about the info about a quit claim. I didnt even know that was something that was done, but it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, with this family, it was probably for the best it had never been done. He absolutely refuses to sell the house and none of us can afford it or pool in together to help him financially. I cant see him ever agreeing to a nursing home. He would probably die the first day in. Thats how he is./

I'll also call Medicaid today and see what can be done. Since I am not PofA or a legal guardian or even a blood relative, I may not be able to do anything specifically for him. But I'm sure they can provide me with general info and what needs to be done. I just dread this because I'm sure there will be a struggle with in as to who could and should be Power of Attorney. These people cannot get along. Its a shame. I love them all, but I don't like some of what I have seen over the years.

Thank you to the poster who brought up someone asking him for money or his social or things like that. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't do that, but it is something I will make sure that he is told TODAY to give out no info to anyone outside the family. If someone tells them they need his social, he can direct them to one of us and we can check out the legitimacy. Thank you so much, I never would have thought of that.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Bumbershoot, you asked about SAH spouses. There are a couple of us. I am one, but my DH is trying to keep me out of this. I'm trying to get disability for several disorders, 4 of which include anxiety related issues. But I will help. Even if I can just make calls and spend one night a week out there and do laundry and fix a meal, I think I can handle this. And things will feel much more managable for everyone when the shock and grief has subsided ( I know someone on this thread said that exact thing, but can't remember who, but thank you) Their daughter who lives next door is almost completely broken. She is on social security because she cannot work due to severe back problems. She has been the one (and her adult daughter who is a SAHM) that has run them to all their dr appts. Some of them hours away. She is mentally exhausted and right now, she really cannot help. She is trying, but we are insisting that she look after herself before she winds up in the hospital). I have 2 other BILs on disability. So there are about 4 or 5 of us who can help. That sounds like a lot, but since all but one of us is disabled, we really only equal about one good person. lol

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

The VERY best option involves my BIL David. He is single. He works for himself. He rents an apartment. FILs house has an extra bedroom, 3 total. One for him, one for Eddie and an extra one. He asked David to move in. Even said he would give David the big bedroom. David said no. I am not mad, just disappointed. On one hand, he could live rent free, utility free etc. On the other hand, I'm sure he wants his space. I wish the family could just tell him if he will move in now, the house will be his when FIL passes. Unfortunately, if I were to suggest this to the family, I would be drawn and quartered.

Sorry for all the posts, I just wanted to thank all of you and respond to all your questions. The advice I have been given is wonderful. I have been in so much pain and felt so helpless. I think with all this info, I will have a chance to help. Thank you so much.

 

[claudia]

Bumbershoot, you asked about SAH spouses. There are a couple of us. I am one, but my DH is trying to keep me out of this. I'm trying to get disability for several disorders, 4 of which include anxiety related issues. But I will help. Even if I can just make calls and spend one night a week out there and do laundry and fix a meal, I think I can handle this. And things will feel much more managable for everyone when the shock and grief has subsided ( I know someone on this thread said that exact thing, but can't remember who, but thank you) Their daughter who lives next door is almost completely broken. She is on social security because she cannot work due to severe back problems. She has been the one (and her adult daughter who is a SAHM) that has run them to all their dr appts. Some of them hours away. She is mentally exhausted and right now, she really cannot help. She is trying, but we are insisting that she look after herself before she winds up in the hospital). I have 2 other BILs on disability. So there are about 4 or 5 of us who can help. That sounds like a lot, but since all but one of us is disabled, we really only equal about one good person. lol

maybe this link will be helpful: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/olderadults/index.htm
I read down the list and it seems to address many of your concerns for your FIL......

 

[Mimi1965]

Since your FIL owns his home I would definitely look into the Reverse mortgage
It takes a couple months to set up. The bank lets you draw a set amount-like 30% of the apprased value over years

My MIL house was appraised at like $90k and she has $30 k to use over the last several years. She uses this to suppliment her monthly income
When she dies , the bank is paid back first when the house sells-the remainder divided among the heirs.
Is he mentally alert enought to manage his financial affairs?

 

[golfgal]

Ok, first, you seem to be under the assumption that there is something he can "qualify" for. The only thing that he could get under Medicaid is a bed in a nursing home. If he qualifies for that it sounds like a good option since he has no money-only the house. He would have to sell the house and use the proceeds to pay for his care until that is gone, then Medicaid would pay the rest. You can use some of the proceeds to prepay a funeral though.

To get in home care you will need to pay out of pocket and that is expensive. If the kids can pool money to do that, it might work for a while. My guess is, however, you are going to find that he needs a lot more care then you think since his wife has been doing so much for him. I would start by calling a place like LivHome to see if they can do an evaluation to see what his needs really are. They will assess his home, look for dangers to him (area rugs, etc.), talk with him and find out what level of care he will need. If he only needs someone a few hours/week, for example, that won't be all that expensive but if he needs more than a couple hours/day, it would be worth investigating the nursing home route.

Assisted living would be a good option but that is going to run at least $3000/month not including food, etc.

In the mean time, look into Long Term Care Insurance for yourself and your spouse so your kids won't have to deal with this when your time comes. It sure makes the decision making process a heck of a lot easier if you know you won't have to pay for the care.

 

[bettymae1121]

My grandmother is 93, and also just lost her license (or gave it up, not sure which). She has trouble getting around (uses a walker now) and is very hard of hearing. She would probably do best in an assisted living situation but flat out refuses to consider it. She wants to be HOME, thank-you-very-much. After a year of my aunt nagging her, she finally agreed to have a lady come 2-3 times a week to do housework for her. My aunt has MS, my uncle still works and his wife has health issues of her own, and my mom passed away in '07, and lived clear across the country in any case. The rest of us are too far away to come on a regular basis to help, we could short term in an emergency but month after month it just isn't relistic. And anyway my grandmother would be agast than ANYONE go out of their way that much to help her. She's completely aleart, you can't get anything past her, so at least we don't have to worry about some con-man ripping her off.

She likes the housekeeper (which is amazing, grandma doesn't like strangers much) but feels bad that she has to work so grandma just visits with the lady the whole time and tries to clean the house herself so the lady has nothing to do! My aunt's husband works from home and he can arrange his schedule to drive her to apointments, and they both do the grocery shoping for her when the do their own and drop it of at grandmas. My uncle helps by fixing anything in her condo that breaks, he doesn't have much time during the week but is happy to help out on weekends.

At any rate, if there aren't much in the way of senior sevices in your area, here are a few suggestions that you can do on your own. Some will cost money, but it's still cheaper than having a home health aid or have him move to assisted living.

You could have a housekeeper come once/twice a week to do cleaning/laundry and have meals on wheels come to help provie lunch during the week (can someone come over once a month to do batch cooking? then you can pre-portion meals and he can just take them out of the fridge and re-heat for days that meals-on-wheels doesn't come, and for dinner too during the week. I did this for my dad after mom died, so he'd have something to eat while he learned how to cook and he said it worked out well! He even asked me for a few of the receipes).

That leaves driving around and bill paying. Bill paying you should be able to set up automatcaly bill pay for him, once it's set up you can monitor it remotely. Driving around, I know there are often senior shuttles run by local governments and/or churches that hopefully can take care of getting him to doctors apointments and anywhere else he wants to go. If there isn't a senior shuttle, maybe some people who belong to his church could volunteer to drive, or maybe a trusted neighbor? Does his area have something like Peapod that delivers groceries? A lot of meds can be mail ordered so that would cut down pharmacy trips.

I know you're exhausted but once you have some time to read through this thread, talk to some of your relatives, and think about all of this, I'm sure you'll be able to put together a plan that will work. Be patient, it may take a few tries and some tweeking to get it to run smothly but I'm sure you'll get there. Good luck!

 

[minniecarousel]

Ah, when you throw the "disabled" son into the mix, it sure gets more complicated. I have a head-injured brother and after years of the "system" trying to pingeon-hole him in with developmentally-delayed adults, he refused to participate anymore. It sounds like some accomodations will be need to be made for this brother once Dad is gone.

For the time-being, if the single brother could move in, it would probably benefit Dad. Just having someone there at night is a good idea. We programmed my Mom's phone (she had her own land line) so that she could call my cell if she needed me, especially in the middle of the night.

Oh, my - good luck in sorting all this out. Don't lose hope. It's so good of you to volunteer to make the calls and get the ball rolling.

 

[MinnieFan]

OP, your DH and his siblings need to consult an attorney not only for issues such as power of attorney, but because North Carolina is one of the states that has filial responsibility laws. This means that adult children can be held financially responsible for expenses related to the care of an elderly parent if the parent is unable to pay. Your father in law may have resources such as his house now, but it is impossible to know what his needs or resources will be in the future. It is therefore very important that your family has an attorney with experience in elder law in your state help you through this.

So sorry for your family's losses, best of luck dealing with this unfortunate situation.

 

[arminnie]

He is 82. He is frail. He cannot take care of himself.

My FIL refuses to sell the house, has exhausted all his savings on his wifes burial.

Those two statements are mutually exclusive without someone else coming to the rescue. Is he still of sound mind? Ask him what he thinks should happen.

People keep mentioning assisted living or a nursing home. It sounds to me that an INDEPENDENT living facility might be best for him. A fraction of the cost of the others plus it provides a lot of social interaction.

You sound very, very upset. I understand. When my mother died I moved in with my father until he died in December. I've been through it all in the past decade.

Before my father agree to go to the independent facility last summer, I thought I was going to crack. Guess what when Dad moved in there he was happier than he'd been in years. All he had to do was walk a few steps to his 3 meals.

There are subsidized housing (independent) for seniors. Often the extra "help" they might need can be obtained by the hour. Most agencies cover 4 hours as it's not worth their time.

My dad was 89 when he died. He had lots of good years after 82 even though he could not have run the house on his own.

 

[ksjayhawks]

OP--sounds like you are on the right track today. Make lots of calls and get lots of information so that dh and his siblings can make the best decision for fil and themselves.

The disabled brother does add additional problems, doesn't it? Surely there are programs/services available for the brother. Someone will need to address this issue--of the brother and his wife and what will happen to them now. Also adding a new issue is the statement that NC has filial responsibility laws. Sounds like you need to contact an attorney who specializes in eldercare asap.

I hope your family does not pressure the single brother to move in. Just because he is single does not mean that he doesn't have work and a life just as much as the siblings who are married. While it might be the easiest solution for the rest of the siblings, it does not mean it is the right solution.

If your community has an independent living facility, that would be worth checking out. There is one or two around here and rents are based on a percent of income. I do know that there are qualifications that must be met--abilitites the person must have, etc--in order to move in and live on their own.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Ok, update here. I got a lot done. Well, I got a lot started. He made a comment to one of the kids that he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to stay in the house due to property taxes. He owns about 6 acres of land and the house. No one had any idea how much the property taxes were so I called the tax office and found out that they are actually generating the bills this week and they were able to give me what is due this year. It's a little under $800 a year. So he really has nothing to worry about. I'm almost positive that he can pay this. When we had the meeting about the tombstone, he wrote the $1300 check on the spot. I'm pretty sure he doesn't keep up with his bank account balance on a daily basis, and only has a general idea, but he is the type of person who would never write a check that would bounce. So obviously there is probably at least 3k. I'm guessing. But none of us know for sure. This is something the brothers and sisters are going to have to talk to him about so they know exactly what they are dealing with.
The only debt is hospital bills. I found most of the EOB statements from her hospital care for the past few months and their portion was around $1500, which is a whole lot better than I figured. They have a very good supplemental insurance. One bill was 29k, Medicaid (or Medicare, I cannot seem to keep these straight!) paid all but 4k and the supplemental insurance paid all but $119.

golfgirl- I got mixed up if I said Medicaid. Like I said, I cannot keep them straight, even after researching them! I should have said Medicare because they cover home health care if he qualifies. I'm still learning...there is so much and it's so complicated.

Again, thanks everyone for all the support. I'm gonna try and get some sleep. Everyone is running on empty.
Oh, I don't think I mentioned this, but my FIL does have 3 vehicles and 2 tractors. He is going to sell all but my MILs van and use the money to prepay for his funeral. He is so scared that he will die without enough money to cover his funeral. So plans are starting to take shape. I did call the Counsel for Aging in this county and was able to pre apply him for a grant thru the county for some home health care. I'm hoping he will be approved.
Again, thanks for everything guys....you don't know how much all your info has helped me help my DH's family. And that makes me feel really good and I am so grateful.

 

[aprilgail2]

The VERY best option involves my BIL David. He is single. He works for himself. He rents an apartment. FILs house has an extra bedroom, 3 total. One for him, one for Eddie and an extra one. He asked David to move in. Even said he would give David the big bedroom. David said no. .

Can't blame him- to put all the pressure on the one person just because he is single would not be fair.
Couldn't you just move the father in with you temporarily until you got everything straightened out and in place. Perhaps he doesn't WANT to leave his house but he may HAVE to leave his house....could always sell it and build an apartment/room onto one of your homes so he could have his own space there.
Taxes are only 800 on his house so even if all the siblings had to split that up between them to pay it wouldn't be much at all....you could also talk to all the siblings about splitting the cost of the funeral to put your FIL's mind at rest that he won't have to worry about that.

 

[wdwfan16]

...from what I could see, that poster wasn't doing anything towards you. They quoted in that post in order to show you that they had been responding to *someone else*. In response to what the other person had said. It wasn't at you, except the first post about independence being taught and then that big one. It was a convo with another poster.

Thank you for seeing what I was trying to show the OP.

 

[golfgal]

Ok, update here. I got a lot done. Well, I got a lot started. He made a comment to one of the kids that he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to stay in the house due to property taxes. He owns about 6 acres of land and the house. No one had any idea how much the property taxes were so I called the tax office and found out that they are actually generating the bills this week and they were able to give me what is due this year. It's a little under $800 a year. So he really has nothing to worry about. I'm almost positive that he can pay this. When we had the meeting about the tombstone, he wrote the $1300 check on the spot. I'm pretty sure he doesn't keep up with his bank account balance on a daily basis, and only has a general idea, but he is the type of person who would never write a check that would bounce. So obviously there is probably at least 3k. I'm guessing. But none of us know for sure. This is something the brothers and sisters are going to have to talk to him about so they know exactly what they are dealing with.
The only debt is hospital bills. I found most of the EOB statements from her hospital care for the past few months and their portion was around $1500, which is a whole lot better than I figured. They have a very good supplemental insurance. One bill was 29k, Medicaid (or Medicare, I cannot seem to keep these straight!) paid all but 4k and the supplemental insurance paid all but $119.

golfgirl- I got mixed up if I said Medicaid. Like I said, I cannot keep them straight, even after researching them! I should have said Medicare because they cover home health care if he qualifies. I'm still learning...there is so much and it's so complicated.

Again, thanks everyone for all the support. I'm gonna try and get some sleep. Everyone is running on empty.
Oh, I don't think I mentioned this, but my FIL does have 3 vehicles and 2 tractors. He is going to sell all but my MILs van and use the money to prepay for his funeral. He is so scared that he will die without enough money to cover his funeral. So plans are starting to take shape. I did call the Counsel for Aging in this county and was able to pre apply him for a grant thru the county for some home health care. I'm hoping he will be approved.
Again, thanks for everything guys....you don't know how much all your info has helped me help my DH's family. And that makes me feel really good and I am so grateful.

Medicare pays for home health care in LIMITED situations-he would have to have a qualifying hospital stay and only then would they pay and then only for 100 days. It is VERY confusing, I agree. Like I said earlier, your choices are to put him in a nursing home if he qualifies to have Medicaid pay for that (Medicare does NOT) or find some in home help that you have to pay for out of pocket or move him into a senior living situation of some sort, again paying out of pocket. There is not federal assistance for this unless you go the Medicaid route and he WILL have to sell his home. I also think you will find that he needs more help then you think because mom has been doing a lot for him.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Around here, a home health aide is around $20 per hour, with a minimum of 4 hr block of time. I used an agency through referrals from two trusted individuals. Unfortunately, this can't be set up in an instant. Someone suggested one of the"kids" taking some Family Medical Leave. I was able to use some of my sick leave to care for my Mom.

This has got to be a very upsetting time for you all. You have my sympathy.

Now is the time to get one of the siblings to be a co-signer on his checking accounts.

Maybe a "reverse" mortgage so that he can use the equity in his home to hire help?

I'm just kind of brainstorming here. My Mom had been living with DH & I for the 9 years before her death, so my situation is different. I hope you can get some help for him.

Good luck.

(Oh, yeah - someone asked if he is a Veteran. There are possibly many resources if he was.)

I was thinking the same thing. I don't know much about it, but it might be a good thing to research.

I am sorry for what your DFIL and family are going through. It sounds like a very tough, emotional time for all involved. I hope you find the resources your DFIL needs. I hope it all works out for the best.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

They all want to, and they are now. But it's not practical. We are all already exhausted. Some of them live miles away, some have their own health problems (these "children" are in their late 40's up to late 50's with the exception of my DH). He is 82. He is frail. He cannot take care of himself. There is absolutely no way he can be "trained". He had a triple bypass a few years ago. He cannot see well, and as a result, lost his license. The death of his wife of 62 years is more than likely going to have devastated health effects in itself. If he lives the rest of the year I will be shocked. He lost his first born child and his wife in 4 weeks.This is not a situation where someone can be trained to cook, clean, pay bills, etc. Independence is not an option.
But thanks for your input, it was valuable.

You need to have people rotate and stay with him or bring him into you home. Yes you will be exhausted. Also you need to call on everyone that you know, family etc. to come in. Contact the social services, get a social worker, do everything you can think of to find assistance.

My sister/BIL are in the midst of it now and the MIL has SEVERE medical issues they are caring for. She is terminal and has a HUGE gaping hole in her abdomen. She is literally "falling apart".

They brought MIL into their home. My BIL had to go on FMLA to care for his mom.

I was there yesterday helping. My sister is very OCD and despite the situation is able to pull it together. Now they did make MIL come live with them as of 1 week ago because the daughter was in a car accident and could not care for her mom any longer. I took the SIL to the ortho surgeon because she has a broken ankle and needs surgery. (YES all of this on top of the MIL situation).

If truly you cannot work out your family watching out for him then you really need to start looking into nursing homes. You cannot leave someone who cannot care for themselves alone. So, be proactive to avoid the medical issues that will come. Confusion, dehydration, etc seem to be the thing that starts first and then comes an injury from a fall.

I am so sorry. It is hard to figure it out. You will find the right path you need to go.

 

[mamacatnv]

AARP has some really good information regarding reverse mortgages and some reputable lenders that they recommend.
A reverse might be ideal in his situation. It could allow him to stay in the house with some assistance and since upon his death or moving into a care facility the mortgage due has to be repaid via sale of the property (usually unless someone pays it off in cash) it would settle the who is going to get the house argument. The house gets sold, the mortgage settled and any residual funds go to the estate. While they are somewhat expensive to initiate the excess funds provided can go a long way towards independent living.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

The VERY best option involves my BIL David. He is single. He works for himself. He rents an apartment. FILs house has an extra bedroom, 3 total. One for him, one for Eddie and an extra one. He asked David to move in. Even said he would give David the big bedroom. David said no. I am not mad, just disappointed. On one hand, he could live rent free, utility free etc. On the other hand, I'm sure he wants his space. I wish the family could just tell him if he will move in now, the house will be his when FIL passes. Unfortunately, if I were to suggest this to the family, I would be drawn and quartered.

Sorry for all the posts, I just wanted to thank all of you and respond to all your questions. The advice I have been given is wonderful. I have been in so much pain and felt so helpless. I think with all this info, I will have a chance to help. Thank you so much.

I wonder if you could find someone, a college student (if there's a college in the area) or someone else just starting in life, who'd be willing to live there rent free in exchange for minimal duties -- keep the yard up, fix a simple breakfast (even if it's cereal and milk), pick up prescriptions, and be there in the night if FIL falls or something. The church might be a good place to start the hunt for something like that. If he had that, meals on wheels midday, and maybe someone to come in and clean and cook an evening meal (paid for with a reverse mortgage?) it might be workable. Perhaps the local children could take turns inviting him over for a meal on the weekends.

 

[tar heel]

Don't pay those medical bills until you are sure he owes them. With a good Medicare supplement, I doubt that he does. My dad had a seven figure hospital bill and owed less than that.