It's happened again -- another mass drowning in a shallow river.

[Silent1CB]

That's really sad. Rivers are bad places if you can't swim due to currents. Ponds are at least a little safer.

And Dollar Stores sells floation devices like float noodles if you cannot afford life jackets or swimming lessons.

Something is better than nothing. Heck, even a rope tied to you is better than nothing. We use a rope when swimming off the back of the boat due to the current. And we wear life jackets just because you can get tired fighting the current.

While I'm not a strong swimmer, I can at least float on my back for a very very long time. Able to breath. People need to learn to turn themselves over & float to save their lifes. There was just a story on this locally showing even infants can learn this.

 

[NotUrsula]

You kinda have to understand a bit of African American cultures. Blacks are more than 3x's as likely to drown than whites. I grew up in Harlem and it wasn't until I was almost 30 before I learned to keep my head under water and I went to the beach all the time.

I know it sounds ridiculous but my kids can't swim and yet we go to the Jersey shore all the time. My family goes to Disney world and we spend just as much time in the pool and water parks as we do in the 4 main parks. My oldest (19) is learning to swim because he goes to college and he has to take a PE class so decide on swimming.

Not one person in my family knows how to swim. My dh & I were boat owners for almost 10 years before we learned to swim and even now I would not call myself compatent (sp) in the water.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/teens-drown-wading-louisianas-red-river/story?id=11312631

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/drowing-rate-black-kids-times-whites/story?id=10965334

For many minorities swimming lessons are way down on the things to pay for and if you live in the inner city like I did, where would you even go for lessons?

While all that is definitely true enough, the study that USA Swimming did for their new program found that cost was NOT the primary reason why African Americans mostly don't swim. The primary reason was parents' fear.

That old bullcrud "scientific" article from the 1930s that a PP mentioned was a big part of it, as was segregation, but somehow a myth was created that convinced an enormous number of American blacks that it was useless and dangerous for them to try to learn to swim, and that belief has been passed down for generations now. The problem, of course, is that it is just not TRUE. That "three times as likely to drown" statistic is true now, but it does NOT have to remain true for much longer. It can be stopped with this generation if enough people take steps to stop it. There is no physical reason for blacks to be any less individually able to swim than whites are, and that is why I'm pulling so hard for the Make a Splash program to be a success. It is creating opportunity for inner-city kids (and small-town kids, and suburban kids), but more importantly it is going to the heart of the matter: the fear.

This is from the actual survey results, at http://swimfoundation.org/Document.Doc?id=66

...

​

2. Fear of injury and drowning found to be strong predictor variables of no and/or low swimming ability.
a. Multiple regression analysis, comprised of variables fulfilling the primary research objectives (page 4), revealed child and/or parent "fear of drowning" and "concern for getting injured while swimming" by child/parent/caregiver to be two significant predictor variables of swim ability.
b. The "fear of drowning" (or absence of fear) was found to be the strongest overall predictor of swimming ability among the variables under investigation.
(1) Free/reduced school lunch recipients reported significantly higher fear of injury/drowning than non-qualifiers.
(2) Black/African American and Hispanic/Latino respondents reported significantly higher fear of injury than White respondents.
(3) Black/African American respondents reported significantly higher fear of drowning than White respondents.
c. Interviews with parent/caregivers demonstrate a state of fear restricting children from participating in swim lessons.
(1) A parent in Boston, who does not allow child to swim shared, "[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]I know how I am and she knows if I panic, if mommy feels like anyt[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]hing is going wrong, it’s over… as she starts getting uncomfortable I jump right in[/FONT][/FONT]."
(2) A parent in Minneapolis/St. Paul admitted keeping her daughter out of swim lessons, stating, "[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]I’m scared…. I’m [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]scared for her[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]… [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]while it[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]’s the cost, I’m scared…I’m scared for her, I don’t know, I’m kinda scared, but she’s not [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]afraid[/FONT][/FONT]."
3. Family and parental swimming involvement/encouragement found to be critical to child’s swimming ability.
a. Items associated with encouraging a child to swim (e.g. My parents/caregivers encourage me to swim) were tested and found to be a significant contributor to a child’s swimming ability.
(1) White respondents were significantly more likely to provide/receive family/parental encouragement to swim.
(2) Recipients of family/parental encouragement to swim were significantly:
1. more skilled swimmers
2. less worried about injury/drowning
3. more likely to enjoy swimming and desire to swim more
b. As stated by a Boston parent, "[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]A lot of African American and Latinos don’t swim because their parents don’t swim, they don’t encourage it. I think we need to educate the parents o[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]n the importance of swimming as a life saving skill. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]You know they just don’t really value swimming as an important life saving skill. Cause they didn’t swi[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]m[/FONT][/FONT]."
c. As revealed within this report a majority of parents/caregivers (54%) self-reported low swimming ability while approximately one-third (34%) of the adolescent respondents agreed with the statement My parents/caregivers know how to swim.
...

I live in an urban environment, and I see black families out swimming all the time. I see them at the Y where my younger one takes lessons, and it is clear at open swim that most of the kids really don't know what they are doing. Our aquatics program manager is just wonderful -- she prowls around at open swim and looks for kids like this, and sweet-talks their parents into signing them up for class. The kids usually do great, but very often their poor parents sit on the deck biting their fingers down to the first knuckle. Please, I don't care what color you are, but even if you are afraid or don't want to swim yourself, do your best not to hold your kids back.

Also, one other thing occured to me today while I was thinking about what happened in Shreveport today, and what happened near St. Louis four years ago. Thanks to the prevalence of organisms such as giardia in freshwater streams, lots of kids who DO know how to swim do not know how they should react if they encounter someone in trouble in a stream, because they have never been swimming in a natural stream and don't know what it is like. My own son, who swims like a fish in both pools and in the ocean, and who is currently training for a lifeguarding certification, has never been swimming in a natural body of fresh water. When I got home today I talked to him about it, and he now knows never to try to rescue someone in a stream or open water without taking in some sort of flotation device with him. I told him that if something like this ever happens at a party, grab an ice chest, flip it over and dump it, and get it to the person in distress, and that it is a good idea to take in a rope, too, if one is available.

Another good idea that I've heard for kids who know how to swim: have them jump in a pool fully clothed as if it were cold outside, coat, shoes and all. It is really a good idea for kids to get a chance to know what it feels like to try to swim like that.

PS: Just FTR, my DD's current YMCA swim instructor is African American -- AND a girl! There are actually 3 African American instructors at my Y, two of them female. The community pool I use also has four African American lifeguards, though all of them are male. The Post-Dispatch ran an article a couple of weeks ago about the cultural issue, and among the people that they interviewed was an aquatics instructor at an area YMCA that has a predominantly African-American clientele: she is 91, and did not learn to swim until she was 62. http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/article_ad4ed0de-d03f-57f3-8258-700298524c76.html
I really don't mean to pick on you, Eliza, but I think that this shows that that cultural tide is finally beginning to show signs of turning, and I think it's a really good thing that we all need to encourage. Perhaps when your eldest finishes learning to swim he can teach you, so that you can teach your younger ones.

 

[eliza61]

fear is one reason sure, but I wasn't really stating reasons. primarily answeing some previous posters questions as to why they were near the water and no one knew how to swim.

Almost 70% of Blacks do not know how to swim but spend a lot of time near the water. Hence the higher rate of drowning.

I totally admit I am only 1 african american but no one I know over 50 years knows how to swi. Including almost 30 first cousins, my 2 sons, my dh & I (boat owners) and pretty much every black friend and relative.

I now live in southern NJ. I could not even tell you where to learn to swim. Nearest Y is 30 miles away, no swim clubs and no way am I paying gym fees to enroll my kids in swim lessons. there h.s. does not have a pool and like I said we spend the majority of our summers at the Jersey shore. Those families would have not had any problems going to the beach for a picnic

I do have a fear of the water but I don't think my kids do.

 

[Sheree Bobbins]

Maybe there was false confidence because they thought there was "safety in numbers."

 

[Crystal0608]

That is horrible! It's so sad for the families!

I am not a fan of river swimming at ALL!

 

[kristilew]

deleted - didn't want to be contributing to the "weird turn!"

 

[Magic Mom]

This thread has taken a wierd turn. My prayers go out to the families.

 

[MarriedToAPrince]

Please I mean no disrespect but if none of the teens or adults could swim why did they go in? I agree, this is a tragedy. I pray for these poor people.

I couldn't agree more. If you cannot swim then you shouldn't be near water.

 

[C.Ann]

How tragic..

 

[chloelovesdisney]

That is a horrible, sad story.

 

[mykidslovesdisney]

I didn't read all the pages. So not sure if this was mentioned. Which I find even sadder too. The initial child that started to drown was saved. Everyone else went in to save him and they never made it out. How sad knowing that you lost soo many friends bc they were trying to save you.

My heart and prayers go out to all of the families involved.

 

[kirstenb1]

every year, mostly men, drown fishing in the James or Appomattox rivers. They fall out of the boat, and drown. If you can't swim, please wear a vest!! Really, no vest, it's like getting in a car with no seatbelt.

I freely admit, I'm wiggy about water safety. Our older dd has been in lessons since she was 3. She's on swim team, so I'm slightly less wiggy. Our younger dd, who's 5 has autism. We haven't been able to get her to focus long enough for swim lessons yet, but we'll keep trying.

Spend a couple of hours at your local pool, and it'll convince you. Young kids just slip under the water. They don't thrash. It's eerie. Like the water has totally confused them, and survival instincts DO NOT kick in. Id' never believe it if I hadn't seen it firsthand. In the movies, everyone thrashes, screams, etc. In real life, I haven't seen it happen.

 

[mykidslovesdisney]

[
Spend a couple of hours at your local pool, and it'll convince you. Young kids just slip under the water. They don't thrash. It's eerie. Like the water has totally confused them, and survival instincts DO NOT kick in. Id' never believe it if I hadn't seen it firsthand. In the movies, everyone thrashes, screams, etc. In real life, I haven't seen it happen.[/QUOTE]There was just a thread here on the dis about 'silent drowning'. It was a interesting article to read.



Our younger dd, who's 5 has autism. We haven't been able to get her to focus long enough for swim lessons yet, but we'll keep trying.

Have u tried an autism swim class?? I work at an indoo aquatics center and it is a very popular class. Only 4 kids to the instructor. It is amazing to see the instructor interact with the students. not sure if they are offered at other places but we have a demand for them.

 

[Erin1700]

My prayers go out to the people in this story! How sad!

I think we can all say they shouldnt have been around water if they couldnt swim, but swimming where they were could result in a tragedy for anyone. My DD9 swims for USA swimming so she can swim well and has endurance in the water like you can not believe. BUT I would still not feel comfortable with her swimming in a river. Too many unknowns there or potential problems.
When we visit our local water park, it is amazing the amount of people who go down the slides knowing they can not swim!

 

[kirstenb1]

mykids love disney,
hey, we tried one on one lessons last summer, with a teacher who's day job is coaching adults with autism (she's also our older dd's swim team coach). Unfortunately, Zoe didn't have the attention span at that point.

This summer, I've dropped the ball. Trying to focus on weekly OT sessions. to help her function in a classroom setting. We're trying so hard to get her to be able to function in a normal classroom.

At the end of the day, I think we'll try to do one-on-one lessons again this year. With autistic kids, little is covered by insurance, so we have to pick and choose what's in the budget. If you'd asked me last year, I would have picked swim lessons as number 1 priority.

This year, after watching her in a classroom setting, it was painfully obvious that our priorities needed to temporarily shift. Anyway, we'll get there.

 

[laurie31]

Here is that thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2504179

and here is the link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndbGvjqEweA

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's really sad. Rivers are bad places if you can't swim due to currents. Ponds are at least a little safer.

And Dollar Stores sells floation devices like float noodles if you cannot afford life jackets or swimming lessons.

Something is better than nothing. Heck, even a rope tied to you is better than nothing. We use a rope when swimming off the back of the boat due to the current. And we wear life jackets just because you can get tired fighting the current.

While I'm not a strong swimmer, I can at least float on my back for a very very long time. Able to breath. People need to learn to turn themselves over & float to save their lifes. There was just a story on this locally showing even infants can learn this.

Okay--hit a button and now cannot scroll and don't want to retype..but last line should read that a homeschool family was relocating back to their home state up north---house was empty, moving vans were loaded and they were doing final walk through. Moments before they intended to leave, their 3yo son died in the pool. It just takes an accidental moment. They couldn't leave the state with him for a few days and another family stepped forward and drove the vans. They flew up when the state allowed their son's body to leave Florida. A month or 2 before...I told them about ISR because they saw my son floating at a pool party. I am on the verge of tears as I type that. I pretty much have told anyone about ISR since. Noone ever thinks it will happen to them or someone they love. And then tragedies like that in the OP occur.

....now the beginning of my post:
ISR teaches the infants. The youngest is 6 months and crawling. The crawling is necessary as those muscles in use indicate readiness to roll to a float.

Mine all learned this. Though my son was my first "infant". He seemed more prone to crawl and wander, so I didn't wait until the swimming season as I usually do. He learned the float at 10 months and then had a refresher after he was 12 months and walking to learn the swim-float-swim sequence.

While I don't know the physiology of how it works---infants can learn because they are tought using touch prompts to cue. Then like Pavlov's dog Learned to salivate at the sound of the bell...infants eventually learn to "find their float" when they find water.

I was at a water play area recently and witnessed a 1 year old who clearly couldn't do that. They struggled in the water trying to lift their head until she figured out how to stand uo. Her idiot parent was only half watching and did not attend to her. While she was okay---she actually learned a deadly behavior should that same idiot parent not be carefully watching her in the future. Essentially it will allow her to drown. I so desperately want to educate---but it will never be well recieved because they don't think their child will ever have a problem.

Noone is ever drown proof--but I just don't get why people won't take measures to improve their chances of survival. I can understand the apprehension with a baby--but for pre-school age and above, it is just senseless.

I'm so very much want to help my children that I have already waitlisted my 2 month old for lessons in January in the dead of winter in Virginia. My oldest Nearly drowned under my supervision when she was 20 months. And a couple of summers ago, I fellow homeschool family r

 

[simba20]

I heard this on the news this morning - why can't these kids swim?! All children should get swimming lessons, starting when they are very young. Can't afford it? Find a way. Skating lessons, skiing lesson, gymnastics, piano - all luxuries. Kids don't want to take swim lessons - too bad. Otherwise, these children are in danger of drowning for the rest of their lives.

I live(d) (just moved) from a small town to the city 45 minutes away. Back in the small town, our neighbor was the head middle school football coach for a number of years and would have the kids over for a summer pool party at the end of summer football practice. I have witnessed that most of the "kids" aged 11-14 hung out in the shallow end, becasue they could not swim. Sure there were some who did know how to swim, and some who would go off the diving board, but most would freak out if they passed a certain point int he shallow end. And, yes, most of the kids were AA.

The county is like this, most of the population is AA. I commented to my husband what I noticed and asked if they really couldn't swim, and he said yes. Our neighbor (the coach) grew up in the county and will tell ya, that most of the AA kids don;t swim, unless they go off to a creek somewhere, and even then they wade.

However, from what I see the county has a bigger problem. There is not one public pool in the county. Nowhere. The small town in which we lived HAD a public pool (the area where it is at, is now overgrown). The pool closed so that the county, at that time, could fight against desegregagtion. The pool did go private (so select people could use it), but failed because it made little profit. There is a country club in the town that has a pool, but do you think they ever participate in a PUBLIC swim education program....nope. Never.

So, anyway, no public pool for ANY child to learn how to swim.

There are private swim instructors, but they teach in private homeowner owned pools.

Just one of the reasons why I wanted to move to the city. I love swimming, I am a fish, and I wanted to be able to have the resource to teach my daughter about water safety, learn how to swim, and have a place to hvae fun. We joined the local Y, and we also ended up buying a house with an above ground pool. DD will be going to the Y for lessons and will be able to have her skills reinforced by the pool at home.

The small town/rural county where we used to live, just lacked a lot of resources.....it was 30-45 minutes to the nearest Wal-Mart.

 

[tinker&belle]

This does work well I will also note that if your a bit on the heavy side and think you wont float as well, its the opposite. I'm heavy and float better then people who are skinny as fat is less dense it is actually impossible for me to sit on the bottom I will float up no matter what. the trick is just to put your head back (ears in the water) as then you will be balanced and not end up head first.

It is important while you do this to try to take a deep breath, hold it, breathe out and another deep breath in immediately.

Keeping air in your body (ANY body, no matter how big or small) helps the body to act as a balloon. Fill the lungs with air, you can float.

 

[kamik86]

There is only 2 public pools in our entire county that i know of... both are at YMCAs so you still have to pay to be able to use them too.

The free swimming places are all lakes (there are many more lake swimming spots then pools) and unless people take swim lessons at the Y most learn to swim in lakes during summer camps.