Is it realistic for your kid to pay for college on their own?

[Kalliope]

Ok. But you can complete loan applications and grant/financial aid forms if you're at least 18. My point was that there's a lot of options to borrow enough money to cover the cost of school.

You need a co signer for loans and financial aid forms will ask for your parents income information. Financial options have gotten much smaller in the last 10 years when it comes to financing a college education.

 

[gwynne]

You need a co signer for loans and financial aid forms will ask for your parents income information. Financial options have gotten much smaller in the last 10 years when it comes to financing a college education.

Yup. You can get the forms, fill them out...but in order to have them actually processed they require your parent's income information. (Unless you are over 24, have a baby, married or in military)

 

[FlightlessDuck]

College is crazy expensive and a minimum wage job no longer pays for it.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

It is entirely possible to have a successful and rewarding career with no college as well. Sometimes I wonder if the costs involved in a 4 year degree really provide an adequate return on the investment in many cases.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It is entirely possible to have a successful and rewarding career with no college as well. Sometimes I wonder if the costs involved in a 4 year degree really provide an adequate return on the investment in many cases.

Yes. The whole "every child should go to college" movement is silly. If you want to have a vocation that requires college, fine. If not? Why bother? Take an apprenticeship and turn into the best auto mechanic, electrician, stand up comic, etc., in town!

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Yes. The whole "every child should go to college" movement is silly. If you want to have a vocation that requires college, fine. If not? Why bother? Take an apprenticeship and turn into the best auto mechanic, electrician, stand up comic, etc., in town!

There are just so many options, and very good options, where a college degree simply doesn't matter. I agree with you that the movement seems a bit short sighted at times.

 

[Christine]

There are just so many options, and very good options, where a college degree simply doesn't matter. I agree with you that the movement seems a bit short sighted at times.

Certainly our public schools here do NOT encourage it at all. My husband is an electrician and went through the 5 year apprenticeship program. It's not easy to get into here and is very tough on math. The trades used to be a place for students who weren't that great "book-wise"; however, were often mechanically inclined. Most kids in the electrical apprenticeship are struggling with the math. On top of it all, it is becoming popular with the college grads to go into it. My cousin went in 2 years ago, after getting a 4 year degree (with no job prospects and student loans). The math is REALLY hard!

 

[morgan98]

There are just so many options, and very good options, where a college degree simply doesn't matter. I agree with you that the movement seems a bit short sighted at times.

I agree with this as well. I love learning and appreciate the importance of college and some of the intangible parts of the experience that provides for a well rounded education. However, it is NOT for everyone.

I am also a realist (some would say glass half empty, lol), but that is not really the case. I believe people need to have a plan that fits in with their strengths and future goals. Things like being a skilled laborer, etc. are just as important as degreed fields and quite frankly, it seems to be harder to find high quality craftsmen.

While money is not everything, it is something. Before people jump in head first into a degree that requires a huge investment I think people need to spend time thinking about how they are going to apply that degree once they are done. If you have to take out six figure loans for college and get a degree with a very low income or where job opportunities are limited, one may be better off to consider another alternative.

It is easy to say it is not about the money until one is saddled with huge student debt payments that delay other life goals (like having a house or a family). I feel it is about a balance of investing in yourself and a return on the investment. This may be less of an issue if your education can be paid for without borrowing.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I agree that in theory a college degree is not needed. But we have created a world where it is needed, even when it isn't. At any hs I work in getting into the trade school is very difficult. My dh is a union hvac/r mechanic. Getting an apprenticeship is extremely tough. I believe they take 17 per year and most have some sort of connection. You will finish your apprenticeship with your associates degree. Journeymen make more than many college grads. Today in my area you need a college degree to move up in management in even convenience stores. A bachelor degree has become the inflated hs diploma. Many of these jobs do not pay enough to justify the cost of that degree but part of the results of the recession is that unemployed people with higher degrees are taking jobs where they are fairly over qualified.
Now as to cost - in theory you can pay for college but it would be very difficult with no family help. I believe most students can pay for community college if they live at home and work a decent summer job. But the last two years are a problem. State tuition varies widely from state to state. Not everybody lives close enough to a state school to avoid housing costs. Not everybody has family who will allow them to live at home after high school.
The system is unfair to students who's parents can't or won't help. You need to include your parents income to be eligible for aid. Aid is limited to people with fairly low incomes. You will not be able to borrow enough to pay for your schooling without a parent's co-signature and they need good credit and income to do that. There was a period of time when I had 3 in college at once. My expected contribution was around $8,000. each and our income was under $60,000.
Most students I know who kind of work their way through still have considerable family help. Parents pay car insurance, cell phone bills, buy books, bring packages of food on every visit, take them clothes shopping, scrape together the last couple thousand in tuition.... Without this sort of help I really believe that even a state school is tough. Many people here are saying their kids got scholarships. I am very happy for them. But scholarships are tough to get. Many students have at least one bad year in hs where they struggle to grow up. Not all schools offer AP courses that have weighted grading.
On top of all of this many students who graduated during the recession have not found decent jobs in their field. Entry level jobs have been taken by people with more experience who are not moving on yet. Baby boomers who lost savings are not retiring. Companies are abusing free and low paying internship positions. Most late 20 something and early 30's people I know are working but at crummy service jobs. I am a sub teacher and our department is full of college grads doing this in the daytime and waiting tables at night. The income based payments on their loans is not even covering the interest. These are bright young people who did all the right things. They have great grades, excellent resumes, good internships and references. College costs and student loans are preventing people from buying entry level homes. This will be the next big crisis I believe.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I agree with this as well. I love learning and appreciate the importance of college and some of the intangible parts of the experience that provides for a well rounded education. However, it is NOT for everyone.

I am also a realist (some would say glass half empty, lol), but that is not really the case. I believe people need to have a plan that fits in with their strengths and future goals. Things like being a skilled laborer, etc. are just as important as degreed fields and quite frankly, it seems to be harder to find high quality craftsmen.

While money is not everything, it is something. Before people jump in head first into a degree that requires a huge investment I think people need to spend time thinking about how they are going to apply that degree once they are done. If you have to take out six figure loans for college and get a degree with a very low income or where job opportunities are limited, one may be better off to consider another alternative.

It is easy to say it is not about the money until one is saddled with huge student debt payments that delay other life goals (like having a house or a family). I feel it is about a balance of investing in yourself and a return on the investment. This may be less of an issue if your education can be paid for without borrowing.

It's one of the reasons I'm so glad our boys will be able to complete their college life with no debt. When individuals start going into debt in order to obtain that degree, I think it is important to evaluate whether there will be a viable return on that investment.

 

[Colleen27]

"This is interesting. A credit hour in 1979 at MSU was 24.50, adjusted for inflation that is 79.23 in today dollars. One credit hour today costs 428.75."

That's crazy! This bubble will burst IF we stop mortgaging our children's futures for tuition. As long as the attitude is "everyone needs to go to college or they won't amount to anything" the colleges will continue to increase tuition. Time to invest in vocational education in the high schools for options that won't leave a child in debt that they will pay for decades. I can't tell you how many people I know who are paying massive loans and not even working in the field that they went to school for. No, your child doesn't have to go to college as their only option for success.

I agree that the bubble needs to burst, but I don't see it happening any time soon. First of all, as long as ratings of school quality are based entirely on college-oriented measures (percentage of kids taking AP classes and tests, percentage going on to college, etc.) the schools will continue to push college as the only path and cut back on programming that doesn't serve that end. And second, what parent wants to be the one to encourage a non-college path in an era of ever-expanding credentialism that demands a degree to open doors to jobs that didn't used to require college and that still don't require college level training? We're the generation that has seen it first-hand - my first real job now demands a degree, when 15 years ago all I needed was industry certifications, though the pay hasn't increased. Working one's way up within an organization is less feasible than ever; most companies would rather bring in new college grads than promote "uneducated" workers from within. Heck, there was even a post on this board a while back about a company that wanted even their custodial staff to have higher education to better serve the company culture. It is no wonder it feels very risky to encourage our kids to take their chances on life without a degree.

It was shocking to me over the years reading college threads on The Dis how many had a student in 12th grade and were just getting around to figure out a way to pay for University. Many seemed to think the government would pay for most of it. I mean, they had 18 years to figure this out.

I don't think many people expected that the astronomical cost increases could persist this long without some sort of fix or correction.

There are just so many options, and very good options, where a college degree simply doesn't matter. I agree with you that the movement seems a bit short sighted at times.

I think those options are fewer with every passing year. My MIL worked 30 years in an industry where, after a layoff, she couldn't even get an entry level position for lack of a degree. My first adult job, at a distinctly entry-level wage of $13/hr, now demands a degree. DH's supervisor has been there since high school and worked his way into management but that upward path isn't open to people who hire in now (or within the last decade); even lower management/front office jobs now require a degree, and are usually filled through the college internship pipeline. And the trades, while viable as a way to earn a living, still feel very vulnerable to outsourcing or importing of talent. Plus many require working in conditions that might be fine at 20 or even 40, but are hard to endure at 55+. I know a lot of tradesmen who were basically forced into an early retirement that they weren't ready for because their bodies just can't handle the physical demands of their work.

My oldest is going into a trade and while I have no doubt it is a path that suits his abilities and talents I do worry about the long-term prospects. I hope the pendulum shifts back towards promoting based on experience and dedication rather than credentials by the time he's established, so he will have the option of moving into less physically demanding work as he gets older.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

My oldest is going into a trade and while I have no doubt it is a path that suits his abilities and talents I do worry about the long-term prospects. I hope the pendulum shifts back towards promoting based on experience and dedication rather than credentials by the time he's established, so he will have the option of moving into less physically demanding work as he gets older.

I think it has to swing the other way otherwise we'll have a required Phd for "do you want fries with that?". At least I certainly hope it starts to swing the other way.

 

[sk!mom]

Oh I wouldn't expect this to pay for college-just pointing out that there are tons (she has 155 possible scholarships she is eligible to apply for) out there - but it will be hours weekly applying for them all lol!

A student could spend a great deal of time applying for these types of scholarships with little or more likely zero return. DD did receive a couple of smaller scholarships last year as a Freshman. They came from local sources though- her Elementary PTO, a local foundation. Her major scholarship is academic and directly through her University- renewable for 4 years as long as she maintains her gpa. If your student has the time to fill out 155 apps then great but I found that receiving much aid this way was one of the myths- "the scholarships are there- you just have to look."

Ok. But you can complete loan applications and grant/financial aid forms if you're at least 18. My point was that there's a lot of options to borrow enough money to cover the cost of school.

My DD has filled out FAFSA twice now. She has not been offered enough in loans to cover the cost of school without our contribution. Due to our income and savings, she doesn't qualify for grants or any subsidized loans. If she accepted the full amount offered to her independently, she would still be about $8,000 short of her total cost of attendance. Thankfully we are prepared to pay an amount that has so far prevented acceptance of debt for her or us. Students with parents who do not or can't contribute will have a difficult road and fewer options unless their parents have a very low income.

 

[Bec3b1g]

It varies by state and is something to look into. I mentioned Utah upthread----one the schools DD had narrowed it down to was in Utah, where they ENCOURAGE students (yes, students, under age 24) to get residency. In that case, the main things they had to do were stay in the state year round (no more than 30 nights outside Utah in a calendar year) and not be listed a dependent for tax purposes on their parent'y income tax. I think they also needed to get a Utah DL (or ID if they do not drive) and bank account registered to a Utah address (Which could be the dorm). MANY kids qualified for a "first year out of state tuition waiver" and then if they fulfilled the residency requirements after that could continue to pay in state.

On the flip side, Colorado is one of those states that makes it very hard to qualify for in state tuition. DH and I grew up in Colorado. We both graduated high school and college there. Our only legal address in the US is in Colorado--where we get mail and DH still has his driver'S license but we really live here in Germany and just visit Colorado once in a while. DD spends every summer in Colorado. Her US ID is from Colorado. She will attend school there and be staying there in the summers and working--she no longer even has a residency permit to live in Germany and could not legally spend all of summer break living with us if she wanted to. She truly and legally has NO other legal address than that in Colorado, but she is not considered in state because we, her parents, do not live there.

Different states. Different systems and different priorities.

We aren't Mormon, but had considerable discussion about the kids applying to BYU. It's an excellent school for business and from what I remember they don't charge extra for out of state tuition. It seems like the Utah schools are a little more out of state friendly.

 

[Colleen27]

It's one of the reasons I'm so glad our boys will be able to complete their college life with no debt. When individuals start going into debt in order to obtain that degree, I think it is important to evaluate whether there will be a viable return on that investment.

But the question becomes, what is the alternative? For those with the ability, changing to a more lucrative major may solve the problem but what about the rest? The reality is that our economy needs fewer skilled workers than unskilled workers, and a degree is often the only chance one has at not being relegated to the ranks of the latter. And despite living in a post-feminist era, this is an especially difficult question for young women for whom the male-dominated trades may be difficult/impossible to break into.

I think it has to swing the other way otherwise we'll have a required Phd for "do you want fries with that?". At least I certainly hope it starts to swing the other way.

I hope so too, but logically I don't think it is likely to happen any time soon. We're a consumer economy in which wage stagnation has crippled the buying power of broad swaths of the consumer class, and businesses don't hire employees they don't need. So we have an oversupply of labor almost across the board, and that will continue to drive high competition even for crappy jobs, exerting upward pressure on the requirements for those jobs and continued downward pressure on wages.

The problem is that our culture trains us to attempt to solve every problem at the individual level. Systemic problems can't always be solved that way. By promoting education as the path to a good living - the individual, personal responsibility answer to the difficulty of earning a living wage - we've devalued the worth of that education while continuing to overlook the systemic problem underlying the whole mess.

 

[Bec3b1g]

College is crazy expensive and a minimum wage job no longer pays for it.

I understand your point. There are cheaper options than Yale. My alma mater, UW, is 33k. And I would never send my kids to the UW's rival college, WSU, but total cost there is 23k

 

[taylor1293]

You need a co signer for loans and financial aid forms will ask for your parents income information. Financial options have gotten much smaller in the last 10 years when it comes to financing a college education.

You do not need a co-signer for student loans. I have not co-signed one single student loan for my daughter. Nor did my parents ever have to co-sign for me. You are correct, however, that the parents financial information is needed to qualify for aid.

 

[Kalliope]

You do not need a co-signer for student loans. I have not co-signed one single student loan for my daughter. Nor did my parents ever have to co-sign for me. You are correct, however, that the parents financial information is needed to qualify for aid.

If it is a loan offered through financial aid, you are correct, you don't need a co signer. If it is from a private source, then yes, you need a co signer.

 

[piccolopat]

Certainly our public schools here do NOT encourage it at all. My husband is an electrician and went through the 5 year apprenticeship program. It's not easy to get into here and is very tough on math. The trades used to be a place for students who weren't that great "book-wise"; however, were often mechanically inclined. Most kids in the electrical apprenticeship are struggling with the math. On top of it all, it is becoming popular with the college grads to go into it. My cousin went in 2 years ago, after getting a 4 year degree (with no job prospects and student loans). The math is REALLY hard!

My daughter just started her 5 year plumber apprenticeship this year for the same reason. Math is hard there as well and many of those in the program without college struggle with this. It's tough work (she's currently working with a group of steamfitters replacing a school boiler and HVAC system) but she loves it.

 

[taylor1293]

If it is a loan offered through financial aid, you are correct, you don't need a co signer. If it is from a private source, then yes, you need a co signer.

Yes. Private loans do need a co-signer.