I don't understand why its such a big deal to take your children out of school..

[kay_key3]

I too am from Kentucky and it is so stupid. I had to go to Lexington for a Doctor appt and was told that if my son missed 3 days then I would go to court.
I wanted to take my children to DW when I grad. this May but can not due to the rules in Ky.


I hate the school system here.

 

[skbasnett]

Not sure. They have a stronghold in MI,WI,IL,MN,IA,OH, etc. and CA. Not sure about every state. But I would guess the reason they talk about the Northeast the most, is the wage scale is probably higher than the Midwest. I'm most familiar with WI, and the vast majority of districts here get a pension, 100% paid for health insurance, no deductible.

Once again, my mom, dad and sister are all teachers here in MA (the northeast) and NONE of them have free health insurance and they each have a deductible that needs to be paid. The unions do back them on issues but I dont see how much better it is than any other place in the country.

As for people saying basically that anyone could walk in and teach ~ try it!! I tried and failed miserably at it. My family (once again, ALL teachers) show up to school over an hour early and they are there each night until at least an hour after the kids are gone. Later if they have to get a test ready or meet with parents. Please note that this is all time that they are not getting paid for. They have gotten to a point where they have MAYBE 2 prep periods a WEEK. Even those get taken away when they have to go to meetings or if something else comes up that can only be handled at that time.

Lets talk supplies...there arent any!! I was just talking to them over dinner last week and I was told that the budget for paper was already used up! There is none!! They had 1 yes just 1 box delivered early in October and that was for the whole school!! It sickens me really. But we are in a state where a govenor wants all the kids in private schools anyway and leave the public schools to fend for themselves.
OK...I am getting off of my soapbox, but this is why I feel that teachers are stressed out enough. Take your kids to Disney or anywhere else...it would be a good break for everyone. I feel the same for teachers taking a week or just a few days to themselves also.

 

[WIcruizer]

As for people saying basically that anyone could walk in and teach ~ try it!!

I don't think anyone has said that? I know I couldn't be a teacher, or at least not a very good one.

Lets talk supplies...there arent any!!

That is a problem in many districts. But now it's 100% tax deductible for teachers.

Please note that this is all time that they are not getting paid for.

Actually, they are getting paid- it's a salary. They aren't paid by the hour. We keep talking about the word "Professional." Any professional who is salaried will put in hours beyond the "normal" work day.

Once again, my mom, dad and sister are all teachers here in MA (the northeast) and NONE of them have free health insurance

I'm not familiar at all with MA, but maybe that's unique to that school district. I would bet that Boston, Springfield, the suburbs, etc. all have free (or nearly free) health insurance.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually, they are getting paid- it's a salary. They aren't paid by the hour. We keep talking about the word "Professional." Any professional who is salaried will put in hours beyond the "normal" work day.

This makes an incredible about of sense!

Many in the work force are salaried. Once salary--the duties can go beyond 40 hours per week without compensated over time. Whatever it takes to get the job done in other words!

Now the salary may not be that of a CEO--but it is still well above the poverty line and it is more than you'd make flipping burgers.

My husband is salaried if he chooses to read a book about new software or something...the company will buy the book, but they will not compensate him the time it takes to read that book. (A very loose example).

Teachers are all in different walks on how much out of classroom time they spend doing their job. I know some who spend a great deal of time--and some who spend very little.

I imagine it is easier to grade an algebra test than it is to grade a research paper. However--it doesn't mean the English teacher is worthy of more money just b/c it takes longer to grade the material.

(And before you bash me as a teacher hater--I don't hate teachers..could they earn more money--sure! But you aren't paid for clock hours. You are paid for the contracted days as someone put it--and technically..any additional time required outside of those days to prepare for classes and grade).

 

[skbasnett]

(And before you bash me as a teacher hater--I don't hate teachers..could they earn more money--sure! But you aren't paid for clock hours. You are paid for the contracted days as someone put it--and technically..any additional time required outside of those days to prepare for classes and grade).

I dont see how that can be backed up since I know for a fact that they spend a good amount of their weekends ~ their free time ~ getting the next test ready or grading papers. OK...so I guess the teachers can do alot less then. Then they should do alot less because once you break down their pay to what they would be getting per hour, dont forget to include the home prep time that they use, they definatley deserve raises. OR...they could just not do anything in their free time and let the kids suffer....hmmmm....

Also, what was stated is hypocritical. Are they contracted for their days for actual work or everyday of the week? That is how I read it above. They are contracted for one or the other. So which is it??

 

[estherhead]

As a group, children in America are not valued (beyond thier worth as consumers).

Children are very rarely valued. They are to be Seen and not heard. Just look at Star Wars. Do we see Luke and Lea growing up? No, because their childhood story is not important. Only adults are important, didn't you know that?

That is why we parents of minors have to FIGHT for their rights and be active. Reading this post makes me tense inside myself and reminds me why I am homeschooling my 5 year old. It is broken and I am sad that it is broken but I cannot fix it. All I can do is make sure that I value my own child and that any great teacher I see I tell them how amazing they are.

 

[melagan]

I have 2 dd 9 & 7 in Michigan. I will be taking them out of school 4 days before Christmas Vacation to take them to Disney. I have already spoke with both of their teachers and there is no problem. There will be no homework, of course they will have to turn in the homework given on Monday due on Friday a few days early but not a problem. I personally don't see a problem taking your child out of school while they are in K-6 and have very good attendance and grades. But that is only my opinion and my decision for my family.

As for Kentucky, just for the way the schools are with their attendence policy I would home school. That is just crazy. I understand that local and state goverenment make up these policies but what about the voters do they not have any say? Right now in Livonia they are purposing that all 5th and 6th graderes in our district be moved to different schools that will be called upper elementary before moving on to middle school. I personally do not like the idea of this but they have held meetings where I can voice my opinion and it will be left up to the school board to decide,after hearing what both the parents and the demographic commitee have to say. I would think most parents in Kentucky disagree with this attendence policy, isn't there somthing you all can do as a whole to be heard??

 

[WIcruizer]

I dont see how that can be backed up since I know for a fact that they spend a good amount of their weekends ~ their free time ~ getting the next test ready or grading papers. OK...so I guess the teachers can do alot less then. Then they should do alot less because once you break down their pay to what they would be getting per hour, dont forget to include the home prep time that they use, they definatley deserve raises. OR...they could just not do anything in their free time and let the kids suffer....hmmmm....

Let's be honest. Don't pretend that a grade scholl teacher is putting in countless extra hours grading teast or preparing course work. If t is taking too much time, that teacher probably is lacking in time management skills. It doesn't take hours to grade basic math, spelling tests, etc. It's not necessary to work weekends. Let's be real. When my wife was a teacher, sure she would work a couple hours every Sunday night. But she did that so she didn't have to do that work during the week- her choice.

There's also time built into the day. What does the teacher do when his/her students are in gym class...music...art...recess....lunch. She can gab in the teachers lounge, or get some work done. It's all a choice.

 

[WIcruizer]

I have already spoke with both of their teachers and there is no problem.

That's the key sentence. You didn't say "I pulled my kids out for a week, it's my right, and I could give a *&% what they think."

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I dont see how that can be backed up since I know for a fact that they spend a good amount of their weekends ~ their free time ~ getting the next test ready or grading papers. OK...so I guess the teachers can do alot less then. Then they should do alot less because once you break down their pay to what they would be getting per hour, dont forget to include the home prep time that they use, they definatley deserve raises. OR...they could just not do anything in their free time and let the kids suffer....hmmmm....

Also, what was stated is hypocritical. Are they contracted for their days for actual work or everyday of the week? That is how I read it above. They are contracted for one or the other. So which is it??

My hubby was hired to work a 9/80 schedule...every other Friday off.

If he has something to do requiring him to be in work--he goes in. End of story!

Someone mentioned the contract for the days. But it would be IMPOSSIBLE to work just those days during school hours and have everything completed timely in one planning period.

I'm not a teacher--so I don't know about contracts. I just know--that from the first day of school--to the last, the teacher is employed (plus prep days prior to the start of school). They are salaried to take care of business. How their contract is written is between them anad their district.

The key is--they are not hourly employees. So there is no obligatory paid overtime...and if they are needed extra to accomplish a job, they have no recourse legally under labor law.

What the poster was saying makes sense--teachers make a salary--the time they spend doing their job is their choice. It isn't hypocritical in the least.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Let's be honest. Don't pretend that a grade scholl teacher is putting in countless extra hours grading teast or preparing course work.

A fellow dance parent is a Kindergarten teacher with 4 girls. She does her prep work/grading work (when necessary) during dance class. Keeps her not bored--and saves that precious time at home for her family.

 

[skbasnett]

Let's be honest. Don't pretend that a grade scholl teacher is putting in countless extra hours grading teast or preparing course work. If t is taking too much time, that teacher probably is lacking in time management skills. It doesn't take hours to grade basic math, spelling tests, etc. It's not necessary to work weekends. Let's be real. When my wife was a teacher, sure she would work a couple hours every Sunday night. But she did that so she didn't have to do that work during the week- her choice.

There's also time built into the day. What does the teacher do when his/her students are in gym class...music...art...recess....lunch. She can gab in the teachers lounge, or get some work done. It's all a choice.

Obviously my previous post wasnt read. THERE IS NO FREE TIME!! The time used when the kids are in gym (what art? that got cut 2 years ago and there has been no music for at least that long.) is for cluster meetings. That, just so you know, is when the 8th grade teachers (or whatever grade) get together to discuss the curriculum, the students, etc. There has been no prep period for a couple of years either. I will also mention that the kids get a half hour for lunch. Taking the time to take them down and settled before they chow and head to recess takes about 15 minutes. The remainder of that time is for the teachers to eat.

This is why the teachers are taking there work home and doing it then. Dont talk in that way that teachers can take 20 minutes (or however long) to grade a couple of papers and go back to their day.

As for the one who said that teachers are under contract from the first day of school to the last. Actually, they start a week before students do. It does not state that they are to be employed on Saturdays, Sundays and weeknights.

We can argue this to the cows come home and I still will not be convinced here.

 

[KLAIT]

I come from a family where both of my parents are/were teachers.

When we first decided to take my DS out of K for a week, I was so nervous to tell the teacher....however, my dad told me that it shouldn't be a problem that kids need to spend time with their families now too....especially since most families have 2 working parents and don't get to spend the time together. Figuring that he has taught at all levels for 30 years he must know something so it made me feel better.

When we went to parent teacher conferences and I told the teacher, she said this "I don't have a problem with that..I think it is great. A child can learn more in one week spent with his family than he will in a week of class. She also said that it is her job as a teacher to make sure he learns the basics, but it is our job as a parent to show hm and teach him the world".

Sure, we did have a few pages of homework to catch up on before and after, but not a big deal.

This year DS is in the 2nd grade and we pulled him for 8 days.....again, no problems..we made sure we talked with the teacher and made up all his homeowrk before and during the trip. It was also fun to bring a few educational experiences into the trip that he brought back into class that related to what they were currently studying...

Now, living in a family where there were 2 teachers, I do think that a lot of people think it is an easier job than it really is. It is funny because it is one thing that is always being argued about somewhere or another.....my brother in law was always teacher bashing...until his child hit the 1st grade and has homework every night.....unfortunatley, this child does struggle a bit and a lot of time is required to work with him nightly on his homework...my BIL is finding that it is not as easy as he thought...

 

[mousierthanyou]

My dw and I take our dd out of school for a week between Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. We have done this for the past 5 years with no problem. The only thing that we consider is her grades leading up to that time. She does attend a private school, so there may be some differences there but I don't see anything wrong with doing this.

 

[WIcruizer]

I do think that a lot of people think it is an easier job than it really is.

I don't think anyone has said it's an easy job. On the contrary, we keep hearing how diffiuclt it is and how underpaid they are. I can't think of another profession that complains so much about pay, hours worked, etc.

Guess what. Nobody ever got rich being a teacher, and never will. They get a fair wage for not working a full year, with excellent benefits, and a pension. If it's not good enough, move on. Where does it stop? Police officers and Firefighters probably feel they're underpaid. But it's pretty rare to hear them b*%h about it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

As for the one who said that teachers are under contract from the first day of school to the last. Actually, they start a week before students do. It does not state that they are to be employed on Saturdays, Sundays and weeknights.

And if you read the parenthesis--you will see that I included that.

A salaried individual outside of the school system works year round. They do whatever they need to do to get the job done--even if it means for them homework or coming in on the weekend to get something done.

You are salaried. Contract or not--that is the job you signed up to do.

I have no problems with teachers...none at all. Could they be paid more and respected more...Absolutely.

However--it boils down to affective use of time and how you choose to take care of business. IF I were a teacher...I'm the kind that likes to get it done during the day and not on the weekends...so I'd come in early--or stay a bit late...so as to avoid bringing it home. And sheer excitement for school...I'm sure it would be on my mind all the time and me constantly looking for ways to improve my classroom...and especially back to school time. But that would be personal preference and I wouldn't go on and on about it.

You control your career--how much time you do or don't put into it is solely up to you.

I did this with my career as well. My job description was to do A, B, & C and not X, Y, & Z. However--I did X, Y, & Z anyway b/c it made my job more fufilling...made me look better...made for much better reviews. I just don't like being average.

So while the teaching field is a unique career...in a lot of ways it has many similarities to business world jobs.

My husband's job doesn't require travel--but he volunteers for it b/c he's a motivated employee...and volunteering looks a lot better than force. But he doesn't get paid for his travel time. Alas--he is salaried--so while it would be nice to clock those hours--he can't. That is no different than you grading a paper on a Saturday afternoon. It takes his time and time from his family and isn't physically compensated. But it is an understood part of the job and as a salaried employee--it is a perfectly legitimate thing for the company to do. An hourly employee would be required by law to be compensated for that time. (for clarification--I'm referring to flight/travel time--he does "clock" hours once at his destination and he is physically working. But just a regular workday--he is not compensated for not being able to sleep in his own bed).

Teachers are not hourly employees! Very dedicated--underpaid....but not hourly and doing the expectations of the job whether or not it is spelled out in the contract.

I'm sure your contract doesn't explicitly spell out that you must give tests and such--but it is part of the job and you cannot evaluate the students if you don't grade the tests. It is part of the job. (this is just an example--I don't need an extensive laundry list as I am well aware of all the things teachers do. ).

I didn't say it was easy--I didn't say it wasn't rocket science...all I am doing is agreeing with WIcruizer that it is a Salaried position with expectations that might extend beyond the standard workday--and that is okay...b/c it happens in other salaried professions as well as part of the acknowledged duties of the job.

 

[In a hurry]

I don't think anyone has said it's an easy job. On the contrary, we keep hearing how diffiuclt it is and how underpaid they are. I can't think of another profession that complains so much about pay, hours worked, etc.

Guess what. Nobody ever got rich being a teacher, and never will. They get a fair wage for not working a full year, with excellent benefits, and a pension. If it's not good enough, move on. Where does it stop? Police officers and Firefighters probably feel they're underpaid. But it's pretty rare to hear them b*%h about it.

Maybe they don't because they are considered "heroes." Teachers seem to be considered the enemy about half the time. Now, SW's complain all of the time about how teachers make so much more than they do with fewer hours, and better benefits.

Business people complain about their cubicles and the work ethic of others. Dr.'s complain about the nonpayers/noncompliant patients. There are pros and cons for every position, but I do see teachers as being a bit different. I think that people in general, expect more from us. I wouldn't ask a policeman to do extra work especially for me, but parents tend to ask that of teachers all of the time.

Mostly, I think we/they complain so much due to comments about the long summers off (we get 4 weeks) and it seems everyone says teachers need respect, but many don't give it. I have had years when I have had children that needed 10X the attention of others in the class, and have given it only to be cursed at by the parent for giving the kid a "needs improvement" in reading, math, and social skills.

 

[skbasnett]

Guess what. Nobody ever got rich being a teacher, and never will. They get a fair wage for not working a full year, with excellent benefits, and a pension. If it's not good enough, move on. Where does it stop? Police officers and Firefighters probably feel they're underpaid. But it's pretty rare to hear them b*%h about it.

I dont think you can even compare the jobs listed above with teaching. Being a firefighter or a police officer is a much different type of job. But wait...dont firefighters work just 3 or 4 days a week? Teachers work 5. Again, not comparing because it is impossible to do. I am curious as to what you think the "excellent benefits" are? Besides having a month off for the summer...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now, SW's complain all of the time about how teachers make so much more than they do with fewer hours, and better benefits.

what is an SW?

 

[MrsPete]

Actually, they are getting paid- it's a salary. They aren't paid by the hour. We keep talking about the word "Professional." Any professional who is salaried will put in hours beyond the "normal" work day.

Well, this is half-true. Teachers are salaried employees and are requried to put in the hours necessary to finish the job. That means writing and grading tests at home, selling football tickets (not optional) a couple times each year, chaperoning dances, supervising club meetings . . . there's more "extra work" than people realize.

On the other hand, if I take a day off (assuming I'm not sick) for personal reasons, it's deducted from my paycheck.

My husband, on the other hand, who's also a salaried employee can tell his boss, "I need to go to a meeting with my accountant this afternoon" and he's not docked -- if he did it too often, of course, he would be. This is fair because he frequently works long hours and weekends when the work dictates.