How do u get your spouse to participate....

[code3chica]

In a family budget? Mine keeps complaining about our finances, but groans when I ask him to sit down and talk. I even set up YNAB and he acts like its too much inconvenience. He used up all the planned savings because he didn't pay attention to it and overdrafts paying too much on a bill.

 

[crisi]

Sit him down without the kids. Explain to him that he has three financial choices.

1) Participate in a budget, help set goals, and spend in accordance with the budget
2) Let you handle everything - he gets an allowance. He doesn't pay bills and he doesn't get credit cards - he gets cash for his needs and comes to you.
3) Hurt the relationship that you have. Money issues are a frequent cause of marital strive - even divorce - and you love him and really do not want to see you marriage damaged by something that can be addressed now - but if things don't change, that is what will happen.

(My husband chose door #2 - he does get credit cards, but only because his natural rate of spending is within budget for us - a few times a year he goes beyond his natural rate of spending and gets read the riot act - but he also knows I "budget" for that too. When we started, and made less money, he had a budget, his own checking account, and the cash card for that - he didn't touch the household accounts)

 

[code3chica]

I have tried multiple times to do this in the 5 years we have been married, but I've never given him those choices. Perhaps I should. He takes cash out of our account almost weekly. Not a lot, like $40, but then I can't track what it's used for. Neither of us can get an allowance to spend what we want because I can't keep up with what he is doing with that money. If its his fun money, then he needs to stop using other money to buy stuff he wants.

Right now he using our debt as a reason to not have more kids. And that is killing me.

 

[crisi]

Oh, I'm sorry. That is a different problem and much bigger. I suspect it isn't that he refuses to participate in a family budget. I suspect he has decided to refuse to grow up. If he wanted more kids, something like a budget wouldn't stop him - he'd do what was necessary. I would suggest marriage counseling.

 

[ShariVT]

In our house I pay all the bills and he does buy things without asking if there is money in the budget for it. We have been doing this for 26 years and it works out great he knows I won't spend money we don't have and so he knows he can't either. We get pocket money each week to pay for things that come up and if any is left over it goes in the disney change bucket a choice we both made. If you are waiting for the perfect time to have more kids it will never happen.

 

[code3chica]

Yeah. We clearly have a big problem right now, but it's the same problem we've had the whole time. He came from a family with two kids and endless money, and I didn't. I've never been scared to work for what I want but all he can ever see is dollar signs.

But anyway, we DO need to fix the budget, regardless of anything else.

 

[NYCDiane]

My soon-to-be ex is the same way and that was the main cause of our breakup. He had no idea of how to handle money or budget money or anything else.

If I tried talking to him about ways to pay off our debt, he would scoff at it.

If I tried talking about budgeting out a certain amount per month for each expense, he would scoff at it.

He overdrafted our checking account by taking money out without telling me and payments would bounce, costing us $35 per bounce. I would tell him. His response? "It's my money, too".

I would make a $50 payment on a credit card; the next day, he would use $40 of it.

He would run to the ATM almost daily to take out cash advances from his credit card. I would try to explain to him that he's being charged $5 for the ATM fee, $5 for the cash advance, plus a higher APR because he's taking cash rather than using the card for a purchase. That $20 would end up being $35. He scoffed at that as well.

We could NEVER break even, no less get ahead. I would tell him that we HAVE to be more responsible with money so we could save in case of an emergency ---- scoff, scoff, scoff.

It caused sooooo much stress on me and really did a number on my health.

After a while, I just got disgusted and our marriage was OVER. I couldn't even stand looking at him. This was back in 2002 and I'm just now getting around to filing the divorce papers, etc. We've (very unfortunately) been living together this entire time because (financially) I wouldn't have been able to make it on my own (because of all the debt). Now? I have a plan. MY debt is almost paid off (his is a disaster and thankfully we have no joint accounts!) and I am saving money to get out of here with my daughter. Once I'm working full time again, I will be squirreling money away and, by this time next year, my daughter and I will have our own place.

 

[mrsklamc]

Yeah. We clearly have a big problem right now, but it's the same problem we've had the whole time. He came from a family with two kids and endless money, and I didn't. I've never been scared to work for what I want but all he can ever see is dollar signs.

But anyway, we DO need to fix the budget, regardless of anything else.

I am a big believer in doing everything you can to save a marriage, but I would tell him, we're either doing this, or we're done. It's just not negotiable. If you aren't mature enough for a budget you aren't mature enough to be responsible for a family.

 

[RitaE]

Well, you can budget and budget and budget all you want. It isn't that hard.

But if he isn't going to follow the budget, not even to the point where you hand him a certain amount of money every week or every month and he agrees he won't make any other unplanned purchases beyond the cash he has on hand - it won't do any good.

You could try asking him to take the credit cards and the main ATM card out of his wallet (just leave him easy access to a secondary checking account that contains only the money he is supposed to spend) but he is likely going to resent that idea.

Because at this point he doesn't want to.

I don't know how to advise you to convince him. He either is onboard with wanting to improve your finances and the steps you plan together, or he isn't. He probably agrees with you in theory that your lives would be better if you paid down the debt and saved up some money, but when it comes to altering his behavior and saying no to spending too much, he isn't willing to alter his buying habits.

 

[piperdown]

Sit him down without the kids. Explain to him that he has three financial choices.

1) Participate in a budget, help set goals, and spend in accordance with the budget
2) Let you handle everything - he gets an allowance. He doesn't pay bills and he doesn't get credit cards - he gets cash for his needs and comes to you.
3) Hurt the relationship that you have. Money issues are a frequent cause of marital strive - even divorce - and you love him and really do not want to see you marriage damaged by something that can be addressed now - but if things don't change, that is what will happen.

(My husband chose door #2 - he does get credit cards, but only because his natural rate of spending is within budget for us - a few times a year he goes beyond his natural rate of spending and gets read the riot act - but he also knows I "budget" for that too. When we started, and made less money, he had a budget, his own checking account, and the cash card for that - he didn't touch the household accounts)

I agree this. My DH also picked door #2, although he does have access to credit cards and cash. However, I monitor the accounts on an almost daily basis, so he knows if I see anything unusual, I'm going to ask. Also, since we started using YNAB, he has access to the current budget balances on his phone, so he knows what he has available to him.

I also agree with another PP about him not wanting to grow up. It's easier for him to blame outside forces (you, debt, not enough income) than to face the reality of the situation. Honestly, if he truly does not want to participate, then there's not much you can do.

Maybe open another checking account in only your name. As soon as a deposit is made in the joint account, move the funds needed for bills and living expenses into the new account. If he overdrafts the joint account that's his problem; you have the necessary funds to maintain the household. It's harsh, but you have to do what you have to do to keep the household going.

 

[APiratesLifeForMe2]

I have only been married a little over a year so I am by no means an expert, but I have learned a few things.

The first is that you cannot make the other person to change. I am a spreadsheet queen with a binder that organizes all of our bills and I track things down to the penny. My DH doesn't even know how to open Excel, let alone sit down with me so we can plan the budget. Once I accepted it is my strength, not his, I wasn't nearly as stressed.

The second is to play at each of your strengths. Since I'm good with the bill paying on time etc, I do that part. I read Dave Ramsey's book and asked my husband to do me the small favor of reading one important chapter (I can't remember at this time which chapter it was but it was a good summation of how to resolve differences in opinion between spouses). From there we had a general understanding that together we should discuss how much money was coming in, and how much money we needed set aside for paying our bills. I worry about the specifics but he gets the general understanding of how much we have for extras. He can then take cash for his personal spending and i can account for it. It is by no means a miracle resolution but we did stop fighting about money. Again I'm just a newly wed so what do I know?

 

[eliza61]

I have tried multiple times to do this in the 5 years we have been married, but I've never given him those choices. Perhaps I should. He takes cash out of our account almost weekly. Not a lot, like $40, but then I can't track what it's used for. Neither of us can get an allowance to spend what we want because I can't keep up with what he is doing with that money. If its his fun money, then he needs to stop using other money to buy stuff he wants.

Right now he using our debt as a reason to not have more kids. And that is killing me.

Oh, I'm sorry. That is a different problem and much bigger. I suspect it isn't that he refuses to participate in a family budget. I suspect he has decided to refuse to grow up. If he wanted more kids, something like a budget wouldn't stop him - he'd do what was necessary. I would suggest marriage counseling.

As so often is the case, Crisi has stated it clearly.
the kid thing is a deeper issue.


So my dh and I had totally, totally different money styles. I had to accept the fact that he is not that connected with finances. and I was totally cool with that. I married him for the "other" great qualities he had.

Now my dh was an extremely goal driven individual so usually our finances worked out because when that man got a goal whether it was paying for a vacation, saving for retirement or a boat, he focused like a laser on the goal.

I was better for the day to day operations. I am the bargain queen, I am the investigator. so while our styles were different our good qualities complemented each other.


One question though. why do you keep up with his fun money? For example my husband budgeted 100 bucks a week on what we called his "keep in my pocket" cash. whether he played golf with it, met the guys for a beer with it or went fishing with it, made no difference to the household budget. that is what he used for his daily living. He didn't use it for groceries or any thing else. Same with me, I would budget X amount of dollars for the week for my "entertainment". lol most of the time I saved mines so I could buy a designer bag but that's my vice.

 

[eliza61]

Yeah. We clearly have a big problem right now, but it's the same problem we've had the whole time. He came from a family with two kids and endless money, and I didn't. I've never been scared to work for what I want but all he can ever see is dollar signs.

But anyway, we DO need to fix the budget, regardless of anything else.

But I think you're going about it backwards. Sort of like when you've got a flood in your basement. Yeah you are taking care of the initial problem by moping it up but the big issue is that there is a leak.

You guys have to mesh your backgrounds together. Now he comes from an environment where money wasn't an issue. that's not your experience so of course you look at money differently. Has he ever had to budget?
I've never understood why we think budgeting is intuitive, it is not. So if he's not had to do it, grew up with parents who he never saw budgeting, it maybe totally foreign.

I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just giving you ideas to focus on.

Until you two go through those issues, the long term budgeting thing won't work. sure he may straighten up and fly right for a month or two but for the long term that's going to be an issue.

Good luck.

 

[crisi]

So my dh and I had totally, totally different money styles. I had to accept the fact that he is not that connected with finances. and I was totally cool with that. I married him for the "other" great qualities he had.

Now my dh was an extremely goal driven individual so usually our finances worked out because when that man got a goal whether it was paying for a vacation, saving for retirement or a boat, he focused like a laser on the goal.

Mine is similar - money is a bad abstraction for him. But I'm really lucky with him - like yours, he is driven - for him that means he's had a very lucrative career. Combined with my former career, it was good money (and even now that I'm 'retired' its still good money), and he really doesn't spend too much - I have to watch him on treating other people to expensive dinners and his clothing budget - but he talks to me about the second, and the first - well, its a work in progress (I do the same thing, but I'm the one with the budget in my head before I offer - he doesn't have any idea what the budget is).

 

[Marionnette]

Sit him down without the kids. Explain to him that he has three financial choices.

1) Participate in a budget, help set goals, and spend in accordance with the budget
2) Let you handle everything - he gets an allowance. He doesn't pay bills and he doesn't get credit cards - he gets cash for his needs and comes to you.
3) Hurt the relationship that you have. Money issues are a frequent cause of marital strive - even divorce - and you love him and really do not want to see you marriage damaged by something that can be addressed now - but if things don't change, that is what will happen.

(My husband chose door #2 - he does get credit cards, but only because his natural rate of spending is within budget for us - a few times a year he goes beyond his natural rate of spending and gets read the riot act - but he also knows I "budget" for that too. When we started, and made less money, he had a budget, his own checking account, and the cash card for that - he didn't touch the household accounts)

My brother's ex continually chose option #1 when he discussed budgeting with her. She didn't want him controlling the finances because he traveled a lot for business and she didn't want to be stuck without access to money if she needed it. At least, that was her excuse.

They're now divorced because she would continually choose to spend money on "wants" instead of paying the electric bill or property taxes. Anytime he brought up her overspending, she would accuse him of being controlling. You can only come home so many times to no electricity or see a letter from the township that your property is going up for sheriff's sale if you don't pay up by a certain date.

I'm not saying that the OP is in a situation as bad as my brother's. But when two people are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to how money is handled, it just adds to their other problems. My ex-SIL still cannot handle a budget. She is constantly coming to my brother for money because she "can't pay the gas bill and the kids are going to freeze this winter".

 

[Colleen27]

Like other posters, my husband chose door #2 on Crisi's list of options. We've had moments where he's gotten frustrated with it, usually when he's having a rough time at work and feels like the money he has available to spend isn't worth what he goes through to earn it, but 95% of the time he's cooperative and when he does get to griping it is usually solved with one agreed-upon splurge to give him a little boost (never anything major - like last week, it was a $18 round of golf even though he'd burned through his spending money on lunches and coffee and such). But for the most part, his resistance to budgeting is rooted in simple disinterest - it bores him, it isn't something he wants to spend his time thinking about, he's not computer-savvy enough to be comfortable with the software, and so he gladly handed over the financial reins to me.

Something to consider that hasn't been brought up yet - Could he be resisting the budget issue as an "out" on the baby question? Is he sabotaging the budget and then blaming your debt because it is easier than telling you he just doesn't want more kids? Telling your spouse that you don't want another child, knowing that s/he does very much want that, is incredibly difficult. It is an issue where there's no compromise - one person "wins" and one "loses" however it is resolved - and maybe he just doesn't want to face that head-on. I've seen guys do some really extreme things to avoid having that discussion with their wives.

I would try to sit down and have a heart-to-heart, some place where you won't have any distractions from the kid(s) or TV/computer/phone, and really try to get at how he's feeling about both issues separately. Counselling would help too, if he's agreeable. Maybe it is a straightforward issue - if he grew up with money, he may very well just feel entitled to a better standard of living than your household income can support. Plenty of people do these days. But I wouldn't discount the possibility that the budget battle is a proxy for some other issue either.

 

[code3chica]

I very much appreciate all this input. Until last night I didn't think my marriage was in trouble. I knew things were rough, and that I wasn't happy and he wasn't listening, but NEVER in my mind did the "D" word come up. Until yesterday. Yesterday I felt like I wanted to just take the kids and go away. That if I couldn't have any more babies that he might as well be dead to me.

Those do not feel like rational thoughts.

 

[mrsklamc]

I very much appreciate all this input. Until last night I didn't think my marriage was in trouble. I knew things were rough, and that I wasn't happy and he wasn't listening, but NEVER in my mind did the "D" word come up. Until yesterday. Yesterday I felt like I wanted to just take the kids and go away. That if I couldn't have any more babies that he might as well be dead to me.

Those do not feel like rational thoughts.

They probably aren't rational thoughts, and I made a big leap straight to the "D" word but I grew up in a family where no one knew how to be responsible with money and I just couldn't live like that now, I would lose my mind. I'm also remembering that many men are blindsided when their wives file for divorce because THEY were happy and they didn't realize that what their wife was upset about was "really that big a deal," so if I were in your shoes I would need to make that clear up front: "I'm not letting your irresponsibility ruin the rest of my life and our kids' lives."

Colleen also has a point- is he just using it to put off the kid issue?

 

[crisi]

My brother's ex continually chose option #1 when he discussed budgeting with her. She didn't want him controlling the finances because he traveled a lot for business and she didn't want to be stuck without access to money if she needed it. At least, that was her excuse.

It doesn't sound like she really chose #1: Participate in a budget, help set goals, and spend in accordance with the budget

She controlled the budget, she set the goals, and she spent in accordance with HER budget (which didn't include utilities) - he didn't get to participate or set goals.

In a marriage, at least one person should take door #1, but if both people do, then it has to be a cooperative exercise in goal setting with an equal commitment to the goals and compromise. And if one partner chooses door #2, there has to be trust that the partner who chooses door #1 is going to be looking out for joint interests. I can't decide that my goal with our surplus every month is to develop the world's best designer purse collection, but everything he wants to treat himself to needs to come out of his $200 a month allowance. That is just driving to door #3.

 

[crisi]

I very much appreciate all this input. Until last night I didn't think my marriage was in trouble. I knew things were rough, and that I wasn't happy and he wasn't listening, but NEVER in my mind did the "D" word come up. Until yesterday. Yesterday I felt like I wanted to just take the kids and go away. That if I couldn't have any more babies that he might as well be dead to me.

Those do not feel like rational thoughts.

I will tell a story from the other side.

I have a friend who married a guy whose first wife was "baby mad." When they were married, he made good money, he worked hard, he loved his kids, he participated in the family. But as each kid got to be toddler age, she wanted another one. After five he said "no more." Money might have been part of the issue, but the issue really was he thought five kids was enough - he had thought two was enough, the other three were "save the marriage" kids. Well, my friend is his second wife. And his first wife did find someone else to marry and had more babies.

I think your issue is the kid issue - the budget thing is a symptom. Why do you want more kids? Why does he not want more kids? How many kids do you want? Has this changed since you married five years ago? How many kids does he want? Has he changed his mind.

For some of us, the number of kids we have IS highly tied to budgets - I have two because two is all I can pay for four years of college in full for without making sacrifices we aren't willing to make - and four people on vacation is expensive enough - airfare for five to Hawaii and we wouldn't have gone. Perhaps that is the case for him as well. For others - its more of a "have kids, you'll figure out how to make due and if you never go to Hawaii (or WDW), it isn't really a sacrifice."