HOA, is this legal?

[mom2aredhead]

I say Kudos to your HOA for having the nerve to do it. I wish we could on our board, but we are required to keep account information confidential.

I'm on my HOA Board. We volunteer our time to attend meetings, make many phone calls and e-mails to obtain, modify, and negotiate bids on contracts for snow removal, landscaping, and general and emergency maintenance. We act as liaison between our homeowners and our property management company who handles most of the billing, payments and banking. A lot goes into it.

Our annual budget is about $240,000.00 which comes 90% from HOA dues and 10% from renting out the clubhouse for parties, interest and late fee income, and pool pass fees. Our expenses as a community have gone up just like everyone else's have, so we have to budget VERY CAREFULLY. We have recurring expenses that have to be paid every month - water and sewer, electric for the street lights, insurance for the common areas - all of which have gone up about 12-15%% in the past year alone. We got walloped with more snow than we have seen in decades, and unfortunately you pay the snow removal guys by the inch. The list goes on and on.

When people start to not pay, the board can't just not pay the bills. The rest of the homeowners still want the pool open. They still need the street paved. We can't turn the streetlights off. So guess what happens. Either expenses get cut (the pool opens in June instead of May, no pool party, and we put off paving your road for a year) or your dues go up to cover the loss in revenue from your neighbors not paying. And then guess what happens. People blame the HOA for mis-managing the money because they are now getting less and paying more.

I would venture to guess that this is not the first contact your HOA has had with the delinquent homeowners. There have probably been many prior phone calls, e-mails, and promises made and broken to have it come to this. From my experience, there are some people that legitimately cannot pay. There are others that choose not to pay because they can get away with it for a while. Maybe calling them out in public will help. I just hope it doesn't get the board sued...because guess who is going to have pay the legal fees for the Association.

 

[bicker]

The HOA board decided to publicly shame residents who were seriously delinquent on their dues. They listed the homeowner's name, address, and the amount of money they owed. Then they suggested we "talk" to these neighbors in an attempt to "get them back on track" with their dues.

Yes, that's perfectly legal.

First of all, I'm pretty sure this is illegal, and even if it wasn't, our bylaws are written to protect a homeowner's privacy in just such situations.

That could be. Please post the passage in the bylaws that you think says that.

This was confirmed to me by a previous board member.

Who perhaps was just saying that because s/he was upset by the action that the board took, and as such may not be a reliable source of legal advice.

Second of all, do they really think this is going to help them get their money?

There have been many news articles in the past year or two where the posting of delinquencies have resulted in an increase in collections.

 

[mrs_hower726]

I say good for the HOA to take care of it in that manner. It's working in our condo association, we get a letter every month of who is behind and how much, along with their last payment. You can see quite clearly who is working on paying it off.

We also instilled last year new rules about the legal avenues we can follow to get our money. After 3 months with no payment and no discussion about a playment plan due to financial hardship, a lein is put on the condo, and it is taken to collections with our lawyer.

Anything so we don't get stuck with another large assessment is good in my book!

 

[bicker]

I don't know. I was a trustee for an HOA in the past and all we did was put a lien on the properties.

I think that's becoming a logical second step, as the publication of delinquencies costs a lot less, and only delays the prosecuting of a lien.

I suppose it is public information for your subdivision members.

Absolutely. I don't know of any HOA that is allowed to keep any of its records secret from any of its members.

Pull out your bylaws and read them. The thing about bylaws is that they can be so vague.

Yes, very true. When reading the bylaws, it always pays to read them with an open mind, rather than with a mind bent on finding justification for what you feel the bylaws should (or should not) say.

 

[bicker]

I guess it would depend if they are bound by the same laws as other creditors, etc... Banks can't call your neighbors and go "Hey your neighbor owes us tons of money, here's the records, go be our collection agent and harrass them".

Banks (all financial institutions) are subject to additional rules. There are many sectors that have additional rules regarding privacy, including health care providers, educators, etc. Our HOA is governed only by a section of state law and our own bylaws, and I don't recall seeing any rules whatsoever that would fall into this category.

 

[bicker]

Bylaws are really weak to be honest. Found that out.

Better to have bylaws than to have people just do whatever the heck they want to do.

It has to be extremely specific otherwise it is up for interpretation.

With benefit of doubt always going to the person taking action (the board, in this case) for which someone is trying to impose sanction (whatever the OP thinks should be done to the board members).

That was certainly a crappy thing for the board to do. I don't know what I would do in your situation. You do have a dog in this fight. Your board has gone rogue.

99.9% of the times I hear about HOA issues, the board is doing the right thing, and the criticisms are just a reflection of the natural tendency for Americans to play favorites for the so-called "little guy" against the "institution". It sure is easy playing back-seat driver, but I bet dollars-to-donuts that people's perspective on this would change if they had to spend a couple of years being responsible.

I did it, myself, for a few years, about ten years ago, and I've declined nomination back onto the board every other year since (two year terms), because of how impossible the job is, because you have to be responsible on the one side, and you have to make people happy on the other side, and those people typically never care about what you're actually responsible for -- they just want what they want how they want it when they want it for how much they want it and they're always right and everyone else is always wrong, especially the HOA board/school board/town council/team coaches/etc.

 

[happygirl]

I completely stay away for HOA neighborhoods to begin with.

I totally agree!! I hate HOA

 

[bicker]

I don't mean to start something here, but in these economic times I think we should all be giving eachother a break.

Starting with people paying what they owe, so that other people don't have to subsidize them.

By the way, how long into the economic recovery (which started two quarters ago) will that "these economic times" excuse be used? Perhaps until the next recession starts?

If someone can't pay their HOA dues, how is making that public info going to help?

Generally, people are making choices about what to pay. If there are fewer penalties for not paying one's HOA bills, as compared to paying the HBO bill (for example), then people will keep HBO. So this approach can at least get at least some of the folks who are making such selfish decisions to reverse those decisions and do the right thing, paying their HOA bill instead. It surely won't help for the people who really have no money to pay their non-discretionary expenses, but it doesn't need to solve the whole problem to be a valuable approach.

Maybe it would have been nice if the HOA said "These are your neighbors who appear to be in trouble financially. Go talk to them, see if they're OK, and if there is anything you can do to help."

I bet that if they did that, some, if not most, of the people criticizing them for what they did would criticize them for being patronizing. I see some visceral reaction to what they did, so your suggestion would only change what those people criticized, not the fact that they criticized or how much.

 

[bicker]

Me too!! I had really never heard of them before the Disboards! They seem to be just a bunch of power hungry little people making rules just to make them....

The members of the board, here in my neighborhood, are angels -- far nicer people than most, since they would probably let your comment pass without condemning you for it, while I clearly won't.

Your categorical condemnation is ridiculous. The vast majority of people I've known on HOA boards are great people, volunteering a lot of their own time to enhance the lives of everyone who is living in their community because they believe in what the community was established for.

I challenge everyone who has a bad word to say about their HOA board to run for the board, get enough people to trust you enough to get elected, and then serve (SERVE) at least two years, and then come back and talk with us.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

I totally agree!! I hate HOA

You just have to know what you're buying into! Read the rules and look at where the dues are going, and then decide whether it's something you can live with. I always thought HOA were terrible, until we started looking into some of them. We bought into a neighborhood with a HOA because it offered much more park space (including a basketball court and a children's playground) than other neighborhoods of similar size (with only public park space). We have so much green space, paths, and a connector with a footbridge over a river to a major city running/biking path. Our HOA dues are incredibly low (compared to what I've seen) and go towards maintaining our park areas. The "rules" are all common sense stuff like, "do not park vehicles in public park areas". We can do what we want on our own property (except for street-park an RV in front of our house for more than 7 days - which is a rule I'm also in favor of because I've lived in neighborhoods where people parked their trailers on the roads and blocked them up for months at a time), and we have a really nice green neighborhood where kids can play, because of our HOA.

 

[mom2aredhead]

I challenge everyone who has a bad word to say about their HOA board to run for the board, get enough people to trust you enough to get elected, and then serve (SERVE) at least two years, and then come back and talk with us.

I've been on my board for 6 years now. I'm with you!

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

If our HOA did that, we would be writing a letter of disapproval to the board without fail.

That is completely inappropriate to humiliate someone who, for all they know may actually be on the brink of losing their home. It's a tough world out there right now, with no lack of foreclosures.

I would NOT want to know my neighbor's private business, and I absolutely would NEVER presume to discuss what they should do financially with them. That's just ridiculous.

I'm sure not all of those in arrears are in fear of losing their homes, but that's not the point. I'd not want them to turn on me, and I surely wouldn't condone their having turned on others.

this.

Our HOA does not participate in this kind of behavior. I think they must just put a lien on the property.

 

[LindaG4458]

When we bought into our NH HOA there were still uncompleted buildings so the developer was still in charge. When it was fully built I volunteered to be treasurer. I discovered that some of the full-time residents were a year behind in dues. The developer just let it go and put his own money into the kitty to cover expenses. It wasn't that these people couldn't pay; they could get away with it and chose to spend their money on other things that were more fun. New carpeting, remodelling, new cars....all were seen.

When we had a HOA meeting after I took over the books I requested a fee increase. When asked why, I told them that I couldn't pay the bills and listed those bills that were overdue. I told them that not everyone was paying fees and, therefore, we were in serious financial trouble. I needed more cash. They asked who was overdue and I told them.

For the first time, I started assessing overdue fees and interest as provided in the bylaws. All but one member paid up. She was a local government employee and bad-mouthed us all over town. After I resigned and someone else took over she finally paid up the principal but refused to pay the penalties. She challenged their legality. She actually told our treasurer that she had lots of connections and that she would win any challenge based upon that. Our treasurer told our attorney; he had a chat with her attorney, and all fees were finally paid.

Our directors were/are very reluctant to place liens on property.

 

[bicker]

Our HOA does not participate in this kind of behavior. I think they must just put a lien on the property.

You say that as if you're implying that that is something that the debtor would prefer.

Remember, liens are public information, and may even be required by law to be published.

 

[dawson5]

If I am thinking of the right thing, a lien doesn't get the bills paid now. It just stops them from selling a property until the bill is paid, correct?

 

[PaulaSB12]

How much do you have to pay to be part of a HOA?

 

[dawson5]

How much do you have to pay to be part of a HOA?

It varies, depending on where you live and the amenities offered.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If I am thinking of the right thing, a lien doesn't get the bills paid now. It just stops them from selling a property until the bill is paid, correct?

Yep. We put a lien on the property after the required amount of time that was in the bylaws.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

How much do you have to pay to be part of a HOA?

Let's see, in the house I was in when I was a trustee, it was about 120/yr. That was for mowing, insurance, maintaining the entrance sign, electricity, mailings, block party, etc., oh and the dreaded repairs to the mud pits. The builder left us with quite a headache.

In TX it was about 800ish/yr. However that was for extensive landscaping & lawn care (required by the city), 3 lovely pools, tennis courts, several parks & playgrounds, wonderful walking paths, community center, fencing, etc... I happily paid fees for that subdivision, it was so wonderful. Of course the subdivison was large with 2000ish homes.

This house we are in is 400ish/yr and we have a pool, 1 small tennis court, and mowing/landscaping. The builder still holds the control and we do not have a formal HOA yet.

 

[Jeninindy]

Me too!! I had really never heard of them before the Disboards! They seem to be just a bunch of power hungry little people making rules just to make them....no painting your house unless WE say the color is ok, keep your garbage cans inside (BLECH), no taking down shrubs unless WE say you can, no parking your car on the street.......sounds like it is living in a dictatorship not a neighborhood!

When you move into a community with an HOA, you are well aware that there are restrictions in that neighborhood as to what you can do with your property. By buying the property, you are agreeing to abide by those rules.

Most of those rules are set up to help protect property values in the neighborhood and the HOMEOWNER has AGREED to follow those rules.

The "power hungry" people thing is not the normal way an HOA board works. They are a group of homeowners who have volunteered their time (usually a lot of time) to do their best to enforce the rules that everyone accepted when they bought their homes. Rules cannot be changed by the board - it requires covenant changes which the neighborhood must participate it.

Yes, there are HOA boards that aren't as good as others, but then you need to do to help fix that problem is to VOLUNTEER your time to help.

As to the situation with the OP, check your covenants and see if what they did was prohibited.

The flip side of the problem is that by your neighbors not paying their dues, it does impact everyone else in the neighborhood. Our dues pay for pool costs, tennis courts, pond maintenance, playground maintenance, landscaping common areas, electric and gas bills for common amenities, mowing, and general neighborhood upkeep, which is all expensive.

Sometimes the dues aren't paid just because their are people that are irresponsible with their bills. If you are having difficulty paying your dues, contact your board or management company - they can set up payment plans. By ignoring the problem, the problem gets bigger and more expensive for everyone since in our neighborhood, it gets sent to our attorney for collection proceedings.