Heartbreaking news...a big reminder to be aware of wildlife on property

[bumbershoot]

I forgot the other disney example. Castaway Cay! So many people just walking on by this sign each time I've been there.

I thought, but could be wrong that you used to be able to swim in that water and even had an Iron Man where you swam in the water (though not sure if it was that specific lagoon)

For 2 years starting in 2004 they had a Half Ironman, with the swim in Bay Lake. Yikes.

But then I was looking up info about the the amoeba, and apparently it's something that settles down in the silt AND requires it to be 85 degrees or higher to live (or be active? not sure with amoebas), and that combo is rare for a *lake*. But if you churn up the water and the water levels are low...

Being IN it and wading are two different things. They said the toddler was wading in their feet. They have it set up like a beach for goodness sakes. I'm always sick of people on these boards who expect everyone to be a Disney expert and comb these boards. 99% of Disney travelers aren't like that. You'd think by looking at a picture at you could put your feet in. I was talking with my mom and sister about this (who have never been) and they were shocked Disney didn't remove all alligators. Or allowed children to get right into areas where they are able to snatch you. Do they deserve to have their children eaten? No.

Guess I watched just enough Crocodile Hunter to know that even walking along the water's edge you're at risk.

My son at 6.5 barely even wanted to walk up on the path at CBR, because HE had watched enough Crocodile Hunter reruns to know that they can run FAST for a short period of time.

Perhaps they can send episodes of that show to people when they book a stay or buy a ticket? Might help. But then I don't watch their videos, not since I realized they changed the awesome "get in the photo" planning video. So maybe they already are; I don't know.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think they *have* signs already. I know perfectly well to not go into any body of water other than the pools, for instance. Because of their signage.

As I said... we often stay at BLT (are owners there), have been at the little "beach" there many times, and always have followed the signs. Would NEVER imagine NOT doing so, whether the sign said don't swim, don't enter the water, or beware of alligators. I am a rule follower.

However, a "no swimming" sign can be read as just reflecting Disney's RULE -- please no swimming here. That is not the same as communicating a KNOWN DANGER of wildlife known to be in those waters.

Seems clear to me, personally, that Disney could and should improve their signage. That doesn't mean everyone will follow the signs even when they do. But EVERY company has room for improvement... this seems like a place Disney can and should easily improve.

 

[Jennasis]

They have transitioned to recovery operations now.

 

[goodeats]

The CNN article said a handful of people witnessed the attack, but it's not clear what they witnessed. I suppose it's possible it could be a hoax/cover up.

Maybe the movies on the beach (and weddings, corporate parties, etc) are not such a good idea. I've always known there were gators in the various water spots at WDW, but I never gave thought to them feeding at night near the shore. Not that I go wading in that water, but in the summer heat I'm sure it's common.

 

[kagmypts]

I posted very early in this thread, but I cannot stop thinking about this family. My heart is absolutely breaking for them. I was literally in tears as I was watching the most recent press conference. So tragic.

I have contemplated not posting my thoughts because it seems so soon. However, there is never a good time. I don't think that any party is to blame in this situation. It was a terrible tragedy. However, it is highly probable that Disney will be found to have been negligent. Negligence occurs when a party does not prevent or properly warn of dangers that are "reasonably foreseeable." Given the well-known existence and prevalence of alligators to people native to Florida, Disney was certainly aware of the alligator threat. In fact, the have a special team of people dedicated to removing dangerous animals (per the press conference). In spite of that, Disney creates a zero entry beach, sets up lounge chairs, and hosts movie nights near the water's edge. All of these things signal to the average visitor that the beach is a safe place; it even makes the water inviting! Aside from a "No Swimming" sign, which has been shown in this thread can mean different things to different people, Disney has apparently not warned guests of the threat. On top of that, there have been numerous reports of people watching kids splashing or wading the in the water. It seems that Disney never asked the kids to stop splashing in the water; once again, it gives the impression that wading in the water is safe. My opinion only. However, according to the press conference, there is an active investigation.

At the end of the day, nothing will bring back the child. It's heartbreaking beyond words.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I forgot the other disney example. Castaway Cay! So many people just walking on by this sign each time I've been there.

There you go! Something closer to this at these little "beaches". Seems like a reasonable expectation/request. Then the consumer makes a fully informed decision -- if they ever pay attention to signs at all. Can't prevent EVERY tragedy, but this seems an easy attempt to make.

 

[Gillyrose779]

Yahoo news just posted this statistic: There have been 23 fatalities caused by wild alligators in Florida since 1973.

Obviously this is a very very rare occurrence.

 

[LMarge]

"A minor scratch"

Just sayin'... I would probably fight to my death.

MG

AMEN!

 

[dnkmmw]

I forgot the other disney example. Castaway Cay! So many people just walking on by this sign each time I've been there.

For 2 years starting in 2004 they had a Half Ironman, with the swim in Bay Lake. Yikes.

But then I was looking up info about the the amoeba, and apparently it's something that settles down in the silt AND requires it to be 85 degrees or higher to live (or be active? not sure with amoebas), and that combo is rare for a *lake*. But if you churn up the water and the water levels are low...




Guess I watched just enough Crocodile Hunter to know that even walking along the water's edge you're at risk.

My son at 6.5 barely even wanted to walk up on the path at CBR, because HE had watched enough Crocodile Hunter reruns to know that they can run FAST for a short period of time.

Perhaps they can send episodes of that show to people when they book a stay or buy a ticket? Might help. But then I don't watch their videos, not since I realized they changed the awesome "get in the photo" planning video. So maybe they already are; I don't know.

The sign is no good. Is says "swim". It doesn't mention wading, walking, standing, sitting in, dipping toes in, splashing or playing in the water. It also says to stay off "rocks" what about boulders?

Dawn

 

[bumbershoot]

When people enter a theme park like Disney you feel like you are in a bubble where every experience is carefully thought out.

I don't. I'm highly resistant to feeling safe just b/c there are pretty signs.

But then my mom and stepdad lived in Country Walk Estates (after I went to college; I never *lived* in Miami... I only visited) which was originally designed by Disney and had adorable little "turtle crossing!" signs and they brought in (manufactured) snow one xmas and it was all totally adorable and bubble-like (in South Miami which was anything but safe) until the moment Hurricane Andrew hit and it was almost 100% flattened because Arvida developers (hired by Disney!) (not that the jury got to hear that) and/or their builders used FINISH nails to put the houses together instead of proper nails and screws.

There's no bubble.

You are in a different state of mind at disney. Not for a second are you thinking about the dangerous wildlife in this very manipulated environment.

That's a person-specific thing. Not an overall thing.

Unfortunately who is at fault is of little concern at this point to these poor parents.

Actually, to me, if I had lost my son in this way, to realize later that I had managed to miss ALL the "no swimming" signs, I would feel *even worse*. It would make a big difference to me. It would concern me. Especially since from a followup I just read, I see they have at least one other child. It would change how I did things in the future. It would be OF concern to me. Of course, for me, since I only have the one child, it would be of concern for about 2 minutes before I ended my life because there would be no point for me to continue. (my feeling about my life, not putting it on anyone else; others are stronger than I am or have different beliefs etc)

 

[fairytalelover]

They pretty much don't have mosquitos at WDW, so I figured something like gators would be pretty much nonexistent too..

No mosquitos?? We were eaten alive by mosquitos at POFQ sitting outside the food court!

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I think the sign should say:

Welcome to the Walt Disney Resort. For your safety, please do not leave your room.

The reality is, there are dangers everywhere. I am from the Midwest, never lived south of Chicago, but I was aware of alligators in Florida and at Disney World, this is not secret information. I travel to the Pacific Northwest and am aware of Bears, travel by car and am aware of the risks and on and on.

I do not mean to sound cold or unfeeling, I do feel very badly for these parents, but there shouldn't need to be a sign for every possible scenario that can befall us.

Dawn

Maybe not but I've been to Hawaii and Australia and No Swimming signs all had pictures of jellyfish, sharks, and/or crocs under them to indicate what the danger was. We stayed at the Poly in May and I was surprised the signs weren't more frank about what the issue is. Not everyone has exposure to how prevalent alligators are or what their hunting patterns are. People might assume the no swimming sign is due to no lifeguards or who knows what else. At work we often talk about telling people 'the why.' It increases compliance and lets people have info to make better choices.

I'm heartbroken for this family as well. It's just horrific.

 

[8caliace]

Absolutely incorrect. Here you go...what the heck is a water moccasin? I have heard the name..i knew at one point.. It is silly to think people coming from all over the country and world to Disney should know about alligator danger and water moccasins. That is so silly. If a sign said no swimming the natural thought is...there is no lifeguard , water gets deep fast, polluted water, boats , not..................alligators that might lurch out and drag your child to his or her death.

If that is one of the dangers they mean by "no swimming" why are they showing movies near the waters edge? The entire argument is ludicrous. I know people ask businesses to be sometimes over cautious with with warning and there are ridiculous law suits but this is Disney's fault end of story. They should have had a sign up alerting people.

When people enter a theme park like Disney you feel like you are in a bubble where every experience is carefully thought out. Not for a second do you feel like you have to be on guard about something like this especially when they are showing movies on the beach so close to the lagoon.....not to mention they put the sand on the "beach" . Logically you feel walking in the water surely can be done when there is a pristine man made beach. Perhaps not swimming if they put up a sign..but walking in the water....yes.

When you go under that Disney Arch you no longer are in reality.....they work very, very, very, very, very hard at making you forget reality. You are in a different state of mind at disney. Not for a second are you thinking about the dangerous wildlife in this very manipulated environment.

This is where it is one of those situations where it is simple Disney is at fault for not giving the warning. I know I would have a completely different approach to being near that water seeing a "no swimming sign" versus a "danger alligator" sign. Most parents when seeing a alligator sign would never let a child near the lagoon. I know I would not even let my child walk anywhere near the water. I assumed they had a way of seeing to it that there are no dangerous alligators around.

Unfortunately who is at fault is of little concern at this point to these poor parents. I can not imagine what they are going through. I hope to goodness that Disney takes full blame for this negligence in not warning visitors of the danger around the water ways properly of alligators or what ever other wildlife may be dangerous to visitors.

When you are in the business of making people feel like they are in fantasy and doing the best job on earth at doing that you have a duty to bring their attention to a real threat because believe be when in disney the majority of people forget reality of dangerous animals in a manmade lagoon.

To infer that simply being at Disneyworld means that as a parent you can let your guard down about anything related to your parental responsibilities is insane. No matter the passing under that "Disney Arch", it is still very much the real world, and if you subscribe to the belief that merely being on property allows anyone to be irresponsible for the same things they are responsible for outside the property, than you are ridiculous.

As a driver on the Disneyworld roads, do I get to disregard all rules and signage along the roadways? Of course not...

 

[A Mickeyfan]

http://myfwc.com/conservation/you-conserve/wildlife/
Check out that link when you plan your trip so you can learn more about our wildlife. Below is a screen shot of what you will find here...and Disney is not immune

 

[AFwifelife]

Absolutely incorrect. Here you go...what the heck is a water moccasin? I have heard the name..i knew at one point.. It is silly to think people coming from all over the country and world to Disney should know about alligator danger and water moccasins. That is so silly. If a sign said no swimming the natural thought is...there is no lifeguard , water gets deep fast, polluted water, boats , not..................alligators that might lurch out and drag your child to his or her death.

If that is one of the dangers they mean by "no swimming" why are they showing movies near the waters edge? The entire argument is ludicrous. I know people ask businesses to be sometimes over cautious with with warning and there are ridiculous law suits but this is Disney's fault end of story. They should have had a sign up alerting people.

When people enter a theme park like Disney you feel like you are in a bubble where every experience is carefully thought out. Not for a second do you feel like you have to be on guard about something like this especially when they are showing movies on the beach so close to the lagoon.....not to mention they put the sand on the "beach" . Logically you feel walking in the water surely can be done when there is a pristine man made beach. Perhaps not swimming if they put up a sign..but walking in the water....yes.

When you go under that Disney Arch you no longer are in reality.....they work very, very, very, very, very hard at making you forget reality. You are in a different state of mind at disney. Not for a second are you thinking about the dangerous wildlife in this very manipulated environment.

This is where it is one of those situations where it is simple Disney is at fault for not giving the warning. I know I would have a completely different approach to being near that water seeing a "no swimming sign" versus a "danger alligator" sign. Most parents when seeing a alligator sign would never let a child near the lagoon. I know I would not even let my child walk anywhere near the water. I assumed they had a way of seeing to it that there are no dangerous alligators around.

Unfortunately who is at fault is of little concern at this point to these poor parents. I can not imagine what they are going through. I hope to goodness that Disney takes full blame for this negligence in not warning visitors of the danger around the water ways properly of alligators or what ever other wildlife may be dangerous to visitors.

When you are in the business of making people feel like they are in fantasy and doing the best job on earth at doing that you have a duty to bring their attention to a real threat because believe be when in disney the majority of people forget reality of dangerous animals in a manmade lagoon.

Just because you wouldn't let your kids go into an area with a sign saying there is alligator and water moccasin danger, that doesn't mean that others will follow suit. There will always be those who don't see a danger and therefore see a rule as frivolous. Would an extensive list of dangers for those who decide to step in the water keep Disney out of court? Probably but it wouldn't prevent anything like this happening again. Same with a fence or wall or getting rid of the beach altogether.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

My first thought was Pete Werner and "Stay out of the damn lakes" my second was the child was in the water after reading he was snatched from the beach which was correct.

I've have dozens of trips under my belt one of which included sighting a 7 foot plus alligator in the canal in front of the beach club entrance.

I often see children with thier feet in the waters and I always walk by and shake my head and while I will admit that the signage regarding alligator snatching is non-existent it isn't necessary. The water is slimy, murky and disgusting and I never let my children touch it for that reason. When the amoeba outbreak happened I showed it the story to them so they understood why I never let them in.

This was a an extremely rare and tragic event.

 

[minniemous]

I don't. I'm highly resistant to feeling safe just b/c there are pretty signs.

But then my mom and stepdad lived in Country Walk Estates (after I went to college; I never *lived* in Miami... I only visited) which was originally designed by Disney and had adorable little "turtle crossing!" signs and they brought in (manufactured) snow one xmas and it was all totally adorable and bubble-like (in South Miami which was anything but safe) until the moment Hurricane Andrew hit and it was almost 100% flattened because Arvida developers (hired by Disney!) (not that the jury got to hear that) and/or their builders used FINISH nails to put the houses together instead of proper nails and screws.

There's no bubble.



That's a person-specific thing. Not an overall thing.



Actually, to me, if I had lost my son in this way, to realize later that I had managed to miss ALL the "no swimming" signs, I would feel *even worse*. It would make a big difference to me. It would concern me. Especially since from a followup I just read, I see they have at least one other child. It would change how I did things in the future. It would be OF concern to me. Of course, for me, since I only have the one child, it would be of concern for about 2 minutes before I ended my life because there would be no point for me to continue. (my feeling about my life, not putting it on anyone else; others are stronger than I am or have different beliefs etc)

Yes I agree..it is a person to person thing....but disney needs to think about the majority of people. The majority of people I guarantee are not for a second aware of the dangers of an alligator dragging their child to death while enjoying a movie at a resort on the edge of the water. They have a beach near a beautiful lagoon where they are showing movies in the evening. This is an attractive nuisance if ever there was to dip your feet in the water. They have a duty to warn of this specific danger end of story.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Absolutely incorrect. Here you go...what the heck is a water moccasin? I have heard the name..i knew at one point.. It is silly to think people coming from all over the country and world to Disney should know about alligator danger and water moccasins. That is so silly. If a sign said no swimming the natural thought is...there is no lifeguard , water gets deep fast, polluted water, boats , not..................alligators that might lurch oupt and drag your child to his or her death.

If that is one of the dangers they mean by "no swimming" why are they showing movies near the waters edge? The entire argument is ludicrous. I know people ask businesses to be sometimes over cautious with with warning and there are ridiculous law suits but this is Disney's fault end of story. They should have had a sign up alerting people.

When people enter a theme park like Disney you feel like you are in a bubble where every experience is carefully thought out. Not for a second do you feel like you have to be on guard about something like this especially when they are showing movies on the beach so close to the lagoon.....not to mention they put the sand on the "beach" . Logically you feel walking in the water surely can be done when there is a pristine man made beach. Perhaps not swimming if they put up a sign..but walking in the water....yes.

When you go under that Disney Arch you no longer are in reality.....they work very, very, very, very, very hard at making you forget reality. You are in a different state of mind at disney. Not for a second are you thinking about the dangerous wildlife in this very manipulated environment.

This is where it is one of those situations where it is simple Disney is at fault for not giving the warning. I know I would have a completely different approach to being near that water seeing a "no swimming sign" versus a "danger alligator" sign. Most parents when seeing a alligator sign would never let a child near the lagoon. I know I would not even let my child walk anywhere near the water. I assumed they had a way of seeing to it that there are no dangerous alligators around.

Unfortunately who is at fault is of little concern at this point to these poor parents. I can not imagine what they are going through. I hope to goodness that Disney takes full blame for this negligence in not warning visitors of the danger around the water ways properly of alligators or what ever other wildlife may be dangerous to visitors.

When you are in the business of making people feel like they are in fantasy and doing the best job on earth at doing that you have a duty to bring their attention to a real threat because believe be when in disney the majority of people forget reality of dangerous animals in a manmade lagoon.

Forgive me if duplication. .I saw this without my reply, yet it was like I posted with this above quote
Ok..now for my answer. .Disney is not immune to real life issues. Its not built in a bubble. They are not responsible for your lack of awareness of your surroundings. The magic and pixie dust is just for your imagination and fun, it doesn't stop crime, fatalities, traffic accidents etc...only you as an individual can do your best to prevent it. It's not Storybook land once you pass under the arch. One should never let their guard down. You take same precautions as if you were home. You don't assume others are watching you or or children.
With that said, it was a tragic accident what happened, Disney is no way responsible. My heart truly breaks for this family. I cannot imagine their pain

 

[Hibiscus]

As usual, the DIS PPB (Perfect Parent Brigade) is here to make sure the parents in the story look as bad as possible, while making themselves feel better about their own parenting. Applause for you.

By the strict standard of attention some advocate for, I guess you never need to buy Band-Aids, because every scraped knee or bruise is evidence of negligence. Why weren't you watching?!?!?!

 

[8caliace]

Just because you wouldn't let your kids go into an area with a sign saying there is alligator and water moccasin danger, that doesn't mean that others will follow suit. There will always be those who don't see a danger and therefore see a rule as frivolous. Would an extensive list of dangers for those who decide to step in the water keep Disney out of court? Probably but it wouldn't prevent anything like this happening again. Same with a fence or wall or getting rid of the beach altogether.

And it's those who feel that they can disregard "frivolous" rules who unfortunately have to deal with the very real consequences of the actions they take when they turn their head and act contrary to the rules.