Hats in Restaurants

[bennifer]

That's all that made your list? LOL

Yes general etiquette seems to have fallen by the wayside lately. And whenever it's brought up, I'm told, "You're so old fashioned" or something like that. If you take away all etiquette because people think it's "old fashioned" or because it's "It's simply an illogical reasoned form of etiquette today, that's upheld just because it's become the 'normal' thing to do" what are you left with?

A bunch of slurping, teeth picking, open mouth chewing, non door holding, don't bother to say thank you 'ing' group of people LOL.

 

[cobright]

I ignore most people's poor etiquette, but when I hold a door and they don't say anything or if they don't hold a door, ohhhh they know how I feel real fast.

And yet holding the door for someone is an ancient traditional courtesy that developed when doors were very heavy and women especially could not be expected to maneuver their contorted wardrobes through a gateway without a man's assistance.

In today's world, holding a door for someone is a needless exercise continued only for the message respect it conveys to its recipient.

This is true of most elements of etiquette. What practical purpose is served by standing for the national anthem?

 

[Tinkerboy00]

I say take it off when you are eating, no matter where, if its inside. Im always surprised how many men/kids don't do this. Some people are just raised right and some are not. Says a lot about todays society.

 

[gina2000]

In closing three sentences, it's clear your outlook would render me lesser of a gentleman for leaving my hat on in a casual dining environment and lack manners. My parents are worth in the area of $35,000,000 and I have a nice trust fund to fall back on, yet I've deployed three times in two wars and a fourth time in a civil unrest to avoid the stigma of being a trust-fund baby and to serve OUR country. I'm accustomed to many thing from military life, such as addressing every adult woman as ma'am and every senior male as sir and the same for professionals and those in authority. However, I'm a lesser gentleman than 'DH' since I support men wearing clean hats in casual dining settings. (Your last three sentences, firmly imply that.)

Just curious.....what are the standing regulations concerning hats in a military mess hall?

In my family, mens' hats are off in all dining situations including the local Burger King. I do notice if men are wearing hats in restaurants and do not think it's appropriate. Sorry.....

 

[SouthJersey]

Same with me...although, a couple of months ago I held the door open for someone and they didn't thank me. I said "YOUR WELCOME!" The guy turned around and apologized to me over and over again. He was just zoned out and he felt horrible. I felt even worse. Since then, I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Whoops lol

 

[SouthJersey]

Just curious.....what are the standing regulations concerning hats in a military mess hall?

In my family, mens' hats are off in all dining situations including the local Burger King. I do notice if men are wearing hats in restaurants and do not think it's appropriate. Sorry.....

There's no existing military regulation to remove headgear before entering DFACs. The mess sergeant or any posted dress code specific to that DFAC is the discretion.

Again, I already touched on that in my earlier post. I supported the practice when hats merely served as protection from the elements. However it's no different for a man to wear a clean ball cap than it is for some woman to have a 'nice' dinner hat. Hat is a hat.

The military example would fall under the fact that headgear in the military clearly isn't worn for fashion...

 

[davedmaine]

Never seen a man in a ball cap in a RESORT Signature restaurant.

As it should be, that is one of the "not permitted" items that they seem to enforce..

We see it all the time. Usually it's people on free dining.

 

[2012DisneyWorldBride]

We see it all the time. Usually it's people on free dining.

How do you know they are using free dining?

I think gentleman should take hats off in restaurants... But I'm just wondering why you assume they are using free dining?

 

[SouthJersey]

And yet holding the door for someone is an ancient traditional courtesy that developed when doors were very heavy and women especially could not be expected to maneuver their contorted wardrobes through a gateway without a man's assistance.

In today's world, holding a door for someone is a needless exercise continued only for the message respect it conveys to its recipient.

This is true of most elements of etiquette. What practical purpose is served by standing for the national anthem?

That's completely ridiculous lol.

So you're telling me if you've already opened the door, it's polite or proper to allow it to come slamming in someones face?

Holding a door for someone behind you is not a practice specific to any society, it's common sense of helping another and being courtesy in a physical manner that is directly related to the individual and aiding them in something.

Wearing a hat has absolutely zero impact on any surrounding individual. Poor example.

 

[gina2000]

There's plenty of things we do that are poor etiquette in other countries. This hat issue is a century old custom established in another society that made it's way here. Shoes and sneakers are even worse than hats. You're absolutely bringing in more filth than a hat and you may even be bringing in smashed insect or animal feces. But, that's okay here in America. Hats...European society says nooooo, so lets take them off and leave our shoes on.


[*] How many of you anti-hat fans have blown (even lightly) on hot food or coffee? I see men and women do it all the time. To their own portions and on their child's hot food. Proper etiquette suggests requesting ice or simply waiting. To blow on food looks like you're a glutton and simply cannot wait for it to cool down, you must expedite the process and blow your wind around the table (nobody's stays confined to their plate).
[*] Half bites? You're never supposed to butter a role and continuously take bites from it. Nor are you ever supposed to leave food on a fork or spoon after taking a bite, for any reason according to any etiquette school or class.
[*] Here's an extremely common one. When you're finished with your meal, how many of you think you're helping your server or signaling that you're finished by moving the plate by either pushing it aside or away from you? One of the absolute worst actions you can do, based off of 'proper' dining etiquette. Announcing (by pushing your finished plate) that you're finished is down right rude.
[/LIST]

We do remove our shoes especially during the winter.

We follow all of the other rules you listed. It's just the way my family has always lived and I respect those rules and have passed them down to our son.

I'm sure we do not correctly follow many etiquette rules. As a matter of fact, I know we don't primarily because tradition has trumped those rules. But we do follow basic etiquette while dining.

 

[SouthJersey]

How do you know they are using free dining?

I think gentleman should take hats off in restaurants... But I'm just wondering why you assume they are using free dining?

I'm curious as well.
Maybe I'm over-analyzing it, but the only correlation I can think of is that sentence basically says, "People with lesser etiquette use free dining."
Hmm, I bought 3 ounces of louis xiii at Yachtsman last year...while on free-dining.

Last time I checked, who in their right mind wouldn't go on free dining if it's available and you're not on a budget requiring self brought food or eating out of the parks?
Free dining isn't 'free' dining anyway lol.

 

[mom2cgj]

You aren't going to spoil my meal or ruin my dining experience if you refuse to remove your headgear when you sit down for your meal. But this doesn't mean I won't have formed an opinion about your manners.

I don't know when people stopped teaching their kids that men/boys remove their hats when entering a building. Maybe I'm old (only 40s) but I think it's a shame...

I know that when I see a man sitting through dinner, a church service (on the occasion I attend one), or the National Anthem with a hat on I think: selfish.

I say take it off when you are eating, no matter where, if its inside. Im always surprised how many men/kids don't do this. Some people are just raised right and some are not. Says a lot about todays society.

My DS4 has no hair, and scars on the top of his head, due to a burn from an accident when he was 1. So, he wears a hat almost 100% of the time he is awake. (He does remove it for prayer and the National Anthem.) First, for protection - his scalp is very fragile and the slightest bump will cause him to bleed. Second, for self-conscious reasons - people are rude. So, he is allowed to wear a hat at dinner. Usually it is a nice cap or a brimmed hat, rarely a baseball cap, but occasionally. Should he (at 4) be considered selfish or rude? Should I be told I am not raising him right because I don't want him to have to put up with the comments and stares from the people at the next table? (Maybe if those people who are whispering about him were raised right...) Instead of judging people as lazy or rude, maybe consider for a moment that there may be other circumstances behind their hat-wearing.

(Stepping off my mama-bear box now.)

 

[SouthJersey]

How do you know they are using free dining?

I think gentleman should take hats off in restaurants... But I'm just wondering why you assume they are using free dining?

My DS4 has no hair, and scars on the top of his head, due to a burn from an accident when he was 1. So, he wears a hat almost 100% of the time he is awake. (He does remove it for prayer and the National Anthem.) First, for protection - his scalp is very fragile and the slightest bump will cause him to bleed. Second, for self-conscious reasons - people are rude. So, he is allowed to wear a hat at dinner. Usually it is a nice cap or a brimmed hat, rarely a baseball cap, but occasionally. Should he (at 4) be considered selfish or rude? Should I be told I am not raising him right because I don't want him to have to put up with the comments and stares from the people at the next table? (Maybe if those people who are whispering about him were raised right...) Instead of judging people as lazy or rude, maybe consider for a moment that there may be other circumstances behind their hat-wearing.

(Stepping off my mama-bear box now.)

This is what I'm talking about.
Based off all of the responses here, people would say you didn't raise your child with proper manners even though they have no idea why he prefers wearing a hat. That's been my point the whole time, people passing such judgement over a 'hat' indoors.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This is what I'm talking about.
Based off all of the responses here, people would say you didn't raise your child with proper manners even though they have no idea why he prefers wearing a hat. That's been my point the whole time, people passing such judgement over a 'hat' indoors.

Could not agree more. People need to just mind their own business and the world will be a much happier place.

 

[NJmouse]

check out this website http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A045cpCivility_Hats.htm

 

[BuddyThomas]

check out this website http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/A045cpCivility_Hats.htm

Whomever wrote that article has too much time on his hands (said the person responding to a hat thread on a Disney board. LOL.)

 

[rand1953]

in 2010 I was eating outside at the rose and crown and a bird swoop down and grab my toupee off my head and flew away with it , I wear a hat all the time now. p.s. if you see a bird at epcot with a nice head of hair please let me know.

 

[webstah]

!

 

[Linaebowl300]

in 2010 I was eating outside at the rose and crown and a bird swoop down and grab my toupee off my head and flew away with it , I wear a hat all the time now. p.s. if you see a bird at epcot with a nice head of hair please let me know.

 

[cobright]

There's no existing military regulation to remove headgear before entering DFACs. The mess sergeant or any posted dress code specific to that DFAC is the discretion.

They don't have a provision in whatever service you were in that compares to Army Regulation 670-1, Section 1.10, k(2)?

(2) Soldiers will not wear headgear indoors unless under arms in an official capacity, or when directed by the commander, such as for indoor ceremonial activities.

I think you're getting two issues mixed up:

In closing three sentences, it's clear your outlook would render me lesser of a gentleman for leaving my hat on in a casual dining environment and lack manners. My parents are worth in the area of $35,000,000 and I have a nice trust fund to fall back on, yet I've deployed three times in two wars and a fourth time in a civil unrest to avoid the stigma of being a trust-fund baby and to serve OUR country.

First, I'm glad you came back. The civil unrest, was it Bosnia? None of my business really but the conflict is an interest of mine. In any case, I'm not sure what the generational wealth of your family has to do with this. Nobody in this day should be equating wealth with social standing, nor mixing the issue of social standing with that of social courtesy. I come from a middle class home and personally have been trailer-park poor as well as moderately well off (not $35m in the bank well off, but enough that I don't worry about how much is in my bank account). I'm socially awkward, a nihilist, and more or less anti-social. Yet I still consider it my responsibility to learn how to show proper respect to those around me and those hosting me at parties and dinners.

The part of this conversation that drives my view of who is and isn't a gentleman is a reoccurring principle, said by a few people (not singling anyone out) that they would surely doff their hat at a fancy restaurant but don't see the point when eating in a Burger King. What this tells me is that you don't think the people hosting you and dining along side you at a Burger King are as worthy of respect and courtesy as someone seated at a Michelin rated bistro.

Now this is something I see quite a bit:

I'm accustomed to many thing from military life, such as addressing every adult woman as ma'am and every senior male as sir and the same for professionals and those in authority. However, I'm a lesser gentleman than 'DH' since I support men wearing clean hats in casual dining settings.

You've done 4+ years in a regime where every interpersonal interaction of your professional life and plenty of your social life has had to conform to a script. Now you're out and you don't owe anybody anything. That's cool, you're absolutely right. You don't owe courtesy and respect to anyone. But those are the things that set a gentleman apart from the hooligans. You can't have it both ways.