GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that masks give 100% protection.

And anyone that has had post graduate classes in virology and diseases that spends time in surgical suites would know that too.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

I shared a study above. I appreciate your higher education. I'm current with events too, listening to and reading many experts every day. I'm still concerned, as are they. It's all good though....we all need to do what we feel comfortable doing at this point.

The paper you posted is interesting,as we know other respiratory viruses (influenza)can and do have cardiac disease associated with them as well. It will be interesting to follow up on these patients to see if the effects are transients or permanent.

“It is too soon to say if the damage in patients recovering from Covid-19 is transient or permanent, but cardiologists are worried.
“These are two studies that both suggest that being infected with Covid-19 carries a high likelihood of having some involvement of the heart. If not answering questions, [they] prompt important questions about what the cardiac aftermath is,” said Matthew Tomey, a cardiologist and assistant professor of medicine at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. He was not involved in either study.
“The question now is how long these changes persist,” he added. “Are these going to become chronic effects upon the heart or are these — we hope — temporary effects on cardiac function that will gradually improve over time?” Quoted from your article

 

[GreatLakes]

And at MCO/Orlando, United Airlines lays off hundreds (447).

https://www.wesh.com/article/united-airlines-lay-offs-orlando/33463113
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a...port-laid-off-after-devastating-covid-19-loss

I fully admit the airline industry is one industry I feel no sympathy for what so ever. I've never gotten over all the add on fees that were put in place "because of the high cost of fuel" never being taken away when fuel shot back down past the initial baseline,especially the baggage fees. They are scum.

Now back to mask bickering.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that masks give 100% protection.

Even in states where masks are mandated in public not everyone wears them Masks aren't worn in all situations. Where I live masks are mandated indoors. People are supposed to social distance when outdoors but not everyone complies. No we are not at zero infection rate but our positive rate has been under 2% for 2 months.

If you read their premise it was that “states and countries with mandatory mask usage were at zero cases”
My question was in jest. Your positive rate is dependent on number of test and who is getting tested, as well as prior infection rate. There are many factors such as density of people rural vs large cities.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

We are back to insults rather than having a discussion?

Pyotr I will continue the discussion and do my best to not get snarky. I do enjoy the trading of ideas and getting others points of view.

 

[wombat_5606]

Interesting read for a rainy Wednesday evening. Dean Blumburg didn’t write that article. Also, can you please show me where it says masks reduce infections by 65%? I saw where mask use in a non-medical setting was shown in Vietnam and China, but it was in regards to SARS and not COVID.

The article says the most effective way to reduce the spread is by physical distancing 2 meters or more.

Sorry, I forgot to add the link:

https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/
ETA: SARS-CoV-2 causes Covid-19

 

[wombat_5606]

Let me give you some advice. Don't make the same exact false claims on your new sock puppet that you made on the last one that you got banned. Post graduate virology classes. Surgical suite . It makes it all too easy.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't think there was any value in having a discussion with that poster, but thanks for stopping by with that new information. I will use my ignore function if it becomes a persistent issue.

 

[RamblingMad]

I fully admit the airline industry is one industry I feel no sympathy for what so ever. I've never gotten over all the add on fees that were put in place "because of the high cost of fuel" never being taken away when fuel shot back down past the initial baseline,especially the baggage fees. They are scum.

Now back to mask bickering.

If you've flown internationally and experienced foreign run airlines, you'd hate US airlines. In terms of customer service, they're all bad.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

Sorry, I forgot to add the link:

https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/
ETA: SARS-CoV-2 causes Covid-19

That was an interesting retrospective study, they did report some bias in the data they looked at from some of the sources (did see China through it a lot). I will be curious to see some of the double blind studies that are in the works.

 

[anthony2k7]

if masks work why do people wearing masks still get viral diseases? Many of the states with COVID have mandatory mask wearing in public, I was unaware that those states have gone to zero infection rates. Please provide me with the reporting agencies you got your numbers from.

Because no one wears a mask 24 hrs a day. It really isn't that complicated is it?

People may be wearing masks in shops and bars now, but no one is wearing them in restaurants. Who wears a mask when visiting family/friends homes? Probably no one.

 

[Karin1984]

Because no one wears a mask 24 hrs a day. It really isn't that complicated is it?

People may be wearing masks in shops and bars now, but no one is wearing them in restaurants. Who wears a mask when visiting family/friends homes? Probably no one.

And/or not wearing them correctly. People touch things, then touch their face as soon as the mask comes off.

A mask is like a condom, it doesn't work 100%.

 

[sam_gordon]

I fully admit the airline industry is one industry I feel no sympathy for what so ever. I've never gotten over all the add on fees that were put in place "because of the high cost of fuel" never being taken away when fuel shot back down past the initial baseline,especially the baggage fees. They are scum.

Now back to mask bickering.

But the people who made the decisions on fees were not the ones who are being laid off.

 

[Suger Mag]

And/or not wearing them correctly. People touch things, then touch their face as soon as the mask comes off.

A mask is like a condom, it doesn't work 100%.

LOL... screw those birth control pills and condoms, they are not 100% effective all the time, so why bother.

I just dont get the all or nothing attitude, well it is not perfect or 100% so why bother. Seat belts and child seats are not 100% either, but I bet you strap the kiddos down.

Unless you are living in complete isolation, with no contact with the outside world, or walking around in a bio-hazard suit all the time... there will be risk of exposure. mask or no mask. But your risk is lowered when you practice mask wearing etc.

I personally like the idea of minimizing risk whenever possible. Even though it is not perfect... I wear a seat belt... I also wear a mask, socially distance, restrict my socializing, and wash wash wash those hands.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I fully admit the airline industry is one industry I feel no sympathy for what so ever. I've never gotten over all the add on fees that were put in place "because of the high cost of fuel" never being taken away when fuel shot back down past the initial baseline,especially the baggage fees. They are scum.

Now back to mask bickering.

The airline industry needs a new business plan because going forward, things will not be the same. I read an piece in the WSJ yesterday about the future of travel. They interviewed eight leaders in the industry including a couple of former CEOs of the major airlines. One said that business travel, the bread and butter of the airline industry, will lose 1/3 to 1/2 of business travel....permanently. You're not going to be able to put the genie back in the bottle. Even if business travel was down by 25% going forward, the airlines lose money.

The CEO of Virtuoso, high end travel agency, was also interviewed. He said that there needs to be world coordination for people to be able to travel internationally again. Well, good luck on that front. I don't see the U.S. being welcomed anywhere for months and months. He also said that travelers want relaxed cancellation policies. I can get on board with that. We had to fight for a couple of months with South African Airways to get a refund. South African Airways had 34 aircraft going into this mess. They now own 5. I don't think they'll be flying from NY to Johannesburg anytime soon.

I would imagine that we will see greatly relaxed cancellation policies on a lot of travel bookings going forward. The industry is going to have to do that to entice us to travel at all.

 

[dvcgirl67]

That was an interesting retrospective study, they did report some bias in the data they looked at from some of the sources (did see China through it a lot). I will be curious to see some of the double blind studies that are in the works.

I understand reading all of these studies with a scientifically critical eye, but I think doing so, at times, means that you can't see the forest for the trees. There are just so many studies and stories out there now about transmission in the real world. In my area alone, in the last month, we have two indoor parties that took place. One, a high school graduation party, took place indoors and mostly without masks. We're up to 50 infected there. Another, a lifeguard party, took place indoors and mostly without masks, and we're up to 35 infected. A cursory google search of local news in most areas of the country, and you'll find the same.

 

[Karin1984]

LOL... screw those birth control pills and condoms, they are not 100% effective all the time, so why bother.

I just dont get the all or nothing attitude, well it is not perfect or 100% so why bother. Seat belts and child seats are not 100% either, but I bet you strap the kiddos down.

Unless you are living in complete isolation, with no contact with the outside world, or walking around in a bio-hazard suit all the time... there will be risk of exposure. mask or no mask. But your risk is lowered when you practice mask wearing etc.

I personally like the idea of minimizing risk whenever possible. Even though it is not perfect... I wear a seat belt... I also wear a mask, socially distance, restrict my socializing, and wash wash wash those hands.

I think that's mainly because it's new. In Asia it was already custom so there it is no issue.
When wearing seat belts became obligatory there was plenty of protest against it. We fear the unknown more. We are familiar with a certain situation and to be persuaded to change is incredible hard.

I once read that when in the 1950s the shopping trolley was introduced, women refused to use them, as they thought it implicated that they were not capable of carrying a basket

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think that's mainly because it's new. In Asia it was already custom so there it is no issue.
When wearing seat belts became obligatory there was plenty of protest against it. We fear the unknown more. We are familiar with a certain situation and to be persuaded to change is incredible hard.

I once read that when in the 1950s the shopping trolley was introduced, women refused to use them, as they thought it implicated that they were not capable of carrying a basket

True. For awhile it felt super odd to be wearing a mask in public. But it's gotten to feel like second nature to me now. I have a routine that I don't even really have to think about anymore. I still wear ear loop surgical masks, and so I have a routine where I keep ten masks in my glove compartment. I also have two small bottles of hand sanitizer that I refill. I wash my hands before I leave, get in my car, apply hand sanitizer and then my mask. When I get back into the car I remove the mask and put it in a zip lock bag which I seal shut.

I'm amazed at how quickly this has become a normal thing for me. Which I guess is a good thing, because I'll be doing this for months to come. Those of us who are wearing masks likely have their own routines similar to mine. We're all getting used to it.

 

[Suger Mag]

I think that's mainly because it's new. In Asia it was already custom so there it is no issue.
When wearing seat belts became obligatory there was plenty of protest against it. We fear the unknown more. We are familiar with a certain situation and to be persuaded to change is incredible hard.

I once read that when in the 1950s the shopping trolley was introduced, women refused to use them, as they thought it implicated that they were not capable of carrying a basket

I was mystified then too as I wore a seat belt before it was ,mandatory... i remember the click it or ticket campaign in Mass. Helmets were also an issue...

 

[anthony2k7]

I think that's mainly because it's new. In Asia it was already custom so there it is no issue.
When wearing seat belts became obligatory there was plenty of protest against it. We fear the unknown more. We are familiar with a certain situation and to be persuaded to change is incredible hard.

I once read that when in the 1950s the shopping trolley was introduced, women refused to use them, as they thought it implicated that they were not capable of carrying a basket

Its not fear most of the time though, its just plain stubbornness.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

And/or not wearing them correctly. People touch things, then touch their face as soon as the mask comes off.

A mask is like a condom, it doesn't work 100%.

Yes this, and size of weave, fit of mask, how many times the mask is adjusted. Even things like moisture allows for wicking.