Gabby Petito

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I've been wondering lately how things in the news and on social media platforms what the response would have been if Gabby was the one who came home and Brian was the one who didn't. Purely a hypothetical, but something I've thought of reading this thread, reading news articles, seeing comments on my FB, etc.

 

[mom2rtk]

I hear you but in truth none of that means they weren't both awful to each other as in that being a possibility. That's a completely separate issue and one the poster you were quoting was attempting to address. As far as we really don't know much about their relationship well this thread has some people very convinced what their relationship was..well at least some people are.

People are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But once a dead body shows up and you clam up and run, at least in my book, you lose that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

People are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But once a dead body shows up and you clam up and run, at least in my book, you lose that.

Before Gabby's body was located (or presumed to be her) people were very convinced what he did and why he did it and the intricacies of their relationship. And after her body was found it didn't mean what Welsh Dragon was bringing up (as well as a few other of us) wasn't a possibility to add to the possibilities spoken about. It doesn't mean she necessarily was an abuser too just that it's added to the pile of possibilities.

He could have still killed her (whether accidental or intentional) and it still wouldn't have meant only he was the abuser. I think there is a reluctance to see a woman in a relationship and consider the possibility there could have been more happening behind closed doors than known. That may not at all be the case here with Gabby and Brian and it's not one I'm trying to say I have intimate knowledge of but it's very much a prevalent theme throughout this thread and it along with all the other things I've seen outside of the DIS made me wonder if the prevalent thought would have been the same if she had been the one who came home and he not (like "oh she just offed her abusive fiance go girl" kind of thought). Her body being found does not lend evidence to the exact nature of their relationship, it does mean she is no longer alive by whatever means which shouldn't be downplayed the loss of her life that's for sure.

 

[mom2rtk]

Before Gabby's body was located (or presumed to be her) people were very convinced what he did and why he did it and the intricacies of their relationship. And after her body was found it didn't mean what Welsh Dragon was bringing up (as well as a few other of us) wasn't a possibility to add to the possibilities spoken about. It doesn't mean she necessarily was an abuser too just that it's added to the pile of possibilities.

He could have still killed her (whether accidental or intentional) and it still wouldn't have meant only he was the abuser. I think there is a reluctance to see a woman in a relationship and consider the possibility there could have been more happening behind closed doors than known. That may not at all be the case here with Gabby and Brian and it's not one I'm trying to say I have intimate knowledge of but it's very much a prevalent theme throughout this thread and it along with all the other things I've seen outside of the DIS made me wonder if the prevalent thought would have been the same if she had been the one who came home and he not (like "oh she just offed her abusive fiance go girl" kind of thought). Her body being found does not lend evidence to the exact nature of their relationship, it does mean she is no longer alive by whatever means which shouldn't be downplayed the loss of her life that's for sure.

Once he returned with the van and clammed up, I was done with him. No more benefit of the doubt for him (in my book). I can't even begin to fathom what her parents were going through knowing he was there in Florida going for bike rides, living his life, and not saying a word about Gabby.

Could it have been a complicated relationship with lots of blame on both sides? Sure. Absolutely. But once again, only one of them is dead by homicide.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I've been wondering lately how things in the news and on social media platforms what the response would have been if Gabby was the one who came home and Brian was the one who didn't. Purely a hypothetical, but something I've thought of reading this thread, reading news articles, seeing comments on my FB, etc.

All we do know is that this very young woman is dead, the boyfriend ran off and why some here are not focusing on that or still talking about this poor man may be abused etc., etc, or if it were him would there be any story is sad and smh stuff.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Once he returned with the van and clammed up, I was done with him. No more benefit of the doubt for him (in my book). I can't even begin to fathom what her parents were going through knowing he was there in Florida going for bike rides, living his life, and not saying a word about Gabby.

Could it have been a complicated relationship with lots of blame on both sides? Sure. Absolutely. But once again, only one of them is dead by homicide.

That's actually been the strangest thing for me is that he hasn't spoken because I'm more used to the Scott Peterson's of the world finding all sorts of ways to hide what they've done. Brian has not attempted to do that. He fled yes but he didn't behave like other ones have.

I've seen a lot of the comments where it's "he came home alive she did not that's all I need to know". However, what if she had come home alive and he not? Would that change someone's perception? My personal thought is unlikely and it's also why I added the "she offed her abusive fiance" part. It's more of a societal observation than anything.

**Remember the conversation about homicide, that's Jim's territory to discuss.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I never noticed that part before about the cell phone, that is interesting. Why would he lie and seems if you lie the police should absolutely take that into consideration. That being said, she had no marks on her and I think that would have cinched it, but given that she herself is saying that she hit him and he did not hit her and goes on and on about how she can be out of control etc., they may actually have to take it face value unless there is more evidence in front of them at the time. I don't know. But I do not believe the police that did that stop are the ones at fault for her death.

I think he was doing the classic “reverse victim & offender” trick when talking to the police. The witness, Chris, said they were fighting aggressively over a phone and that it appeared as though the man had taken the woman’s phone and didn’t want her in the van. Brian and the officers discussed throughout the video how he had withheld her keys, had put some of her things outside of the van, had locked her out of the van, had shoved her and grabbed her face, and how Gabby had “clawed her way” overtop of him in the driver’s seat to get back in the van. My personal speculation is that he was threatening to leave her on the street with no phone and no vehicle and she was panicking. He knew the phone was a big part of why the fight escalated the way it did and that’s what he started to tell police, but realized he wouldn’t be able to justify keeping her phone from her the way he could the keys so he switched it in his retelling of the story to say he was the one without a phone and that’s why he was withholding her keys, so she wouldn’t drive off and leave him on his own with no means of communication. He was changing up details of the story to make himself the victim on the fly and he stumbled with the lie about not having a phone but the officers didn’t notice.

I posted yesterday that I had noticed for the first time one of the officers in the video saying Gabby had marks on her, too. I don’t know if maybe the female officer photographed those off-camera or if they weren’t documented at all, but the officers were aware that she had some signs of injury. (To what degree, I don’t know. I couldn’t even make out Brian’s injuries on the video, I just know the officers referred to them as scratches.)

 

[mom2rtk]

That's actually been the strangest thing for me is that he hasn't spoken because I'm more used to the Scott Peterson's of the world finding all sorts of ways to hide what they've done. Brian has not attempted to do that. He fled yes but he didn't behave like other ones have.

I've seen a lot of the comments where it's "he came home alive she did not that's all I need to know". However, what if she had come home alive and he not? Would that change someone's perception? My personal thought is unlikely and it's also why I added the "she offed her abusive fiance" part. It's more of a societal observation than anything.

**Remember the conversation about homicide, that's Jim's territory to discuss.

Honestly, I'm not up for that hypothetical conversation. It think it detracts from this case.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I think he was doing the classic “reverse victim & offender” trick when talking to the police. The witness, Chris, said they were fighting aggressively over a phone and that it appeared as though the man had taken the woman’s phone and didn’t want her in the van. Brian and the officers discussed throughout the video how he had withheld her keys, had put some of her things outside of the van, had locked her out of the van, had shoved her and grabbed her face, and how Gabby had “clawed her way” overtop of him in the driver’s seat to get back in the van. My personal speculation is that he was threatening to leave her on the street with no phone and no vehicle and she was panicking. He knew the phone was a big part of why the fight escalated the way it did and that’s what he started to tell police, but realized he wouldn’t be able to justify keeping her phone from her the way he could the keys so he switched it in his retelling of the story to say he was the one without a phone and that’s why he was withholding her keys, so she wouldn’t drive off and leave him on his own with no means of communication. He was changing up details of the story to make himself the victim on the fly and he stumbled with the lie about not having a phone but the officers didn’t notice.

I posted yesterday that I had noticed for the first time one of the officers in the video saying Gabby had marks on her, too. I don’t know if maybe the female officer photographed those off-camera or if they weren’t documented at all, but the officers were aware that she had some signs of injury. (To what degree, I don’t know. I couldn’t even make out Brian’s injuries on the video, I just know the officers referred to them as scratches.)

I see now that I was not aware of that the officers knew about the 911 caller saying he hit her. I did not know that they saw marks on her either that does make a difference. I also do agree that it seemed to be a typical gaslighter narcissistic abuse type behavior where he appears as the good guy. BUT that still isn't easy to be evaluated by police or give them the ability to take someone in, but with marks on her and the 911 call maybe it could have. I don't know. It's sad. I think the cops made a decision and thought they were making the right one.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

All we do know is that this very young woman is dead, the boyfriend ran off and why some here are not focusing on that or still talking about this poor man may be abused etc., etc, or if it were him would there be any story is sad and smh stuff.

Respectfully it's unfortunate that you see it as SMH stuff because I've not seen any comments to denote the loss of her life as not worth focusing on.

This is also a discussion board, which always goes without saying. You had your gaslighting conversation it shouldn't be a problem to you for others to discuss the abusive aspects of their relationship as you did this yourself you may not agree with other people and they agree with you but that discussion is very much in play. Some people are talking about the 911 call and focusing on that but on different viewpoints as well as bringing in the body cam video. Some people are focusing on any information on his whereabouts that's their thing. Others are focusing on body cam and legalities into taking someone in during a dispute, that's their thing. And personally speaking I've never referred to Brian as a poor man. As Pea-n-me said to another poster you're welcome to take the conversation in any direction you want to and so are others.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Honestly, I'm not up for that hypothetical conversation. It think it detracts from this case.

I respect that although I do think it plays into how people perceive this case, which was more my point. If the abusive relationship viewpoint is heavily weighing in on your (general your) perception of what went down it should be up for discussion the various parts of their relationship. For those where the potential abusive isn't a major factor that may not seem relevant but it really should be relevant if your (general your) viewpoint on their relationship hinges on the intricacies of their relationship. Not to be taken that you yourself have to engage in the conversation. I wouldn't have even brought it up if I didn't see so many comments, including yours, that said "he came home alive she did not all I need to know" or "she's dead he's not 'nuff said". Once you use a dead body and just that as your indication of guilt you open up to discussion of other things though you may not want to actually talk about it here on the Boards (which is fair enough in my book).

 

[Sinder]

Didnt she hit him with her phone?
If the answer is yes then taking her phone and keeping it from her is a reasonable response.
I thought he had grabbed her and shoved her as a response to her hitting him?
Is that not correct?
Is that the caller could have witnessed?
There are a million what ifs.
Trying to understand what might have happened isn’t defending anyone, its just wondering what happened.
She’s dead, he fled the area to return home and then disappear. I think he’s guilty of causing her death for sure. I dont know if it was accidental or intentional. I dont know if he’s a chronic abuser and her a victim of domestic violence. Arm chair psychologists don’t know either snd a professional psychologist wouldnt make that determination from just watching a video.

 

[Dentam]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ts-before-going-missing/ar-AAOVAHZ?li=BBnb7Kz
Apparently Brian and his parents went camping in an area 75 miles from their home after he returned to FL. Reports are that 3 ppl entered and only 2 left, leading to speculation that he may be in that area instead of the area that was searched by police/FBI.

 

[piglet1979]

One of the guys that also went missing in Teton body has been found. They say that Gabby's case helped find him.

Gabby Petito case helps lead searchers to likely body of another missing person
The Teton County Search and Rescue nonprofit says it has located a body in Wyoming believed to be Robert Lowery – a missing 46-year-old man – following renewed interest in the case because of the Gabby Petito investigation.

"The widespread news coverage of the Gabby Petito search helped bring light to Lowery’s case, and resulted in at least two members of the public calling local authorities this past weekend with new information about his possible last seen point," the group wrote on Facebook.
Lowery, from Houston, was last seen on Aug. 20.

"Teton County Search & Rescue conducted a search for Robert ‘Bob’ Lowery at the base of Teton Pass, Wyo., on Tuesday, Sept. 28," the group said. "After four hours of searching on foot, a team with a search dog located a body fitting Lowery’s description on a steep, timbered slope."

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Respectfully it's unfortunate that you see it as SMH stuff because I've not seen any comments to denote the loss of her life as not worth focusing on.

This is also a discussion board, which always goes without saying. You had your gaslighting conversation it shouldn't be a problem to you for others to discuss the abusive aspects of their relationship as you did this yourself you may not agree with other people and they agree with you but that discussion is very much in play. Some people are talking about the 911 call and focusing on that but on different viewpoints as well as bringing in the body cam video. Some people are focusing on any information on his whereabouts that's their thing. Others are focusing on body cam and legalities into taking someone in during a dispute, that's their thing. And personally speaking I've never referred to Brian as a poor man. As Pea-n-me said to another poster you're welcome to take the conversation in any direction you want to and so are others.

You have made it very clear that you felt my gaslighting comments about him were wrong including many many many comments defending him from the beginning such as he was very possibly and even likely innocent, He was the abused one, I don't believe she was the abused one, then changed to equally abused, now your new one is I bet this wouldn't be interesting or in the media if it were the other way around. That is what I meant as your "poor Brian" scenario that has been going on throughout your posts.

 

[VandVsmama]

The facts will all eventually come to light about what happened. Eventually, law enforcement will find whoever it was who killed her. Brian's disappearance is definitely suspicious. But at the current time, there isn't sufficient evidence collected yet to be able to say that yes, he killed her. If there was, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies would have already announced that there's a warrant out for his arrest for murdering her.

Is it odd for him and his parents to go camping for 3 days when his fiance was missing? Yes. Is that how a normal fiance & fiance's parents would probably act knowing that the love of your son's life was missing and nowhere to be found? No.

Does that mean that Brian killed her and that his parents helped Brian try to cover it up? There's not enough evidence yet.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Didnt she hit him with her phone?
If the answer is yes then taking her phone and keeping it from her is a reasonable response.
I thought he had grabbed her and shoved her as a response to her hitting him?
Is that not correct?

That was Brian’s version of events that he told police, yes.

Is that the caller could have witnessed?

The witness who called 911 said he witnessed the man slapping the woman. Then they were both running up and down the street, the man hit her again, and then they got into the van and drove off.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

For anyone who played Sim City back in the day and likes watching little things move around a map, this website is the coolest thing I’ve found in a while. You can track planes and helicopters around the world in real time. Focus over the Fort De Soto park and you’ll occasionally see an aircraft circling and searching the area.

https://www.flightradar24.com/27.61,-82.76/11

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You have made many many many comments defending him from the beginning including before it was known he ran off or her body found, including she was not likely the abused one, he was very possibly and even likely innocent, or likely He was the abused one, I don't believe she was the abused one, then changed to equally abused, now your new one is I bet this wouldn't be interesting or in the media if it were the other way around. That is what I meant as your "poor Brian" scenario that has been going on throughout your posts.

Defending him? Absolutely not. There are several posters on this thread that have tried to say that discussion or bringing up questions does not equal defending. I understand that for you that is a problem.

Where have I made a comment where I said he's innocent? Where have I said she was not likely the abused one? IIRC my discussion was that it's possible both were to each other that there wasn't enough to say only he was to her.

We all have our own bias for sure. A discussion of possibilities that doesn't match your own doesn't means one can only be defending them instead of discussing. Multiple posters have discussed or pondered the abuse in the relationship which means you see that as defending him too.

There was a discussion that DLgal had early on that was more along the lines that Brian was more this or that but it isn't one I agreed with. And it was pointed out that a few other comments were made. There was a discussion about psychological state of mind which is valid point of discussion no matter which way you view it (both hers and his) and the context that was brought up was coming home and not saying anything for which I did agree with DLgal in that particular discussion regarding that and so did a few other posters (discussion of trauma occurred). Psychological state of mind is also something you discussed in your gaslighting conversation and one that others have as well (including these last few pages) about whether she was being truthful in saying she hit him or whether she was just covering up.

We all look at things in our own lens (that was a big reason you had your gaslighting conversation because of your own experience). I work with my own bias as well. Statistically speaking men are by far the abusers but I don't in my mind approach it with the idea that only men can be. Part of that is my upbringing where my mom was the lesser of the two evils, part of that is my college courses taken, part of that is seeing interactions within both sets of my in-laws. But I take things case by case when discussing, just how I roll. Don't take anyone not saying "he killed her, he's an abusive jerk, he's the scum of the earth" to mean they feel like he's innocent or that they are defending him. Then again your issue with my words may just a difference in the way our minds work for which there's not much that can be done from either one of us for our viewpoint to be understood more.

 

[Sinder]

That was Brian’s version of events that he told police, yes.

The witness who called 911 said he witnessed the man slapping the woman. Then they were both running up and down the street, the man hit her again, and then they got into the van and drove off.

In the video the PO asked Gabby if he hit her and she said "I guess", and the PO repeated- he hit you and asked her to show him where. She proceeded to grab her face and say like this.
So what she showed the PO wasn't actually a hit, it was a grab.
I understand that in hindsight because she is dead but that video is not concrete proof that she is the victim in an ongoing abusive relationship. That video is a snippet in their life, it doesn't tell the whole story and there were 2 witnesses and one did not mention seeing him hit her, but he did see them get in the car together. 2 different people saw 2 different things, and she herself doesn't say definitely yes he hit me, who knows what the truth is, could be something in the middle.