future costs?

[Dalpal]

HI,
We are thinking of buying into DVC.
My ? is...
Are there any other yearly costs, besides maintance. What is the maintance fees?
Does the maintance fee ever go up?
I am trying to figure out what the cost to us will be not including the buy.
Will it ever end up costing us more in the future that can not be planned.?

TIA.

I am trying to cover everything befor I make the plunge.

 

[Granny]

It's always good to look at all angles of a purchase such as this.

Yes, there are annual maintenance fees. They are currently in the $4.00 per point range, and vary by resort.

There are no other on going costs beyond the maintenance fees.

These fees can and do go up every year.....though there were a few years where some of the resorts actually had a decrease. There are two aspects that you have to protect you from large maintenance fee increases.

First, the maintenance fee increase is capped at no more than 15% a year. Historical averages the past few years have been more in the 3-5% increase range.

Second, by law Disney cannot make a profit on the maintenance fees. So they can't jack up the fee to make money....it all has to be supported by real costs. One case in point is that they estimate the property tax as part of the fee. Many times they are high and adjust the following year's fee by the overestimation on the previous year's tax.

So it is a concern...in fact it was my biggest concern before buying. But for the past 12 years, the maintenance fees have remained very reasonable with small annual increases.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Maintenance fees are the only other cost. They are around $4.00 per point but differ slightly at the different properties. You should probably count on maintenance fees going up 4%-5% per year.

How much hotel rooms at WDW will go up over the next 38 or 50 years is the big unknown. I wish I could have locked into what we paid at the Polynesian back in 1980.

HBC

 

[Dalpal]

Thanks guys,
Wow thats 600.00 a year for 150 pts.
I dont know....... Thats about half of what I pay for a mod. when I stay at WDW.
but it would be like staying at a deluxe so It might be worth it.
Its just my DH and myself, but I have nine grandchildren, with one on the way ........ so I could see us needing more points ,,,,,That would mean higher Maintance fee............
I really want to do this, but I am not sure I can.

 

[PamOKW]

You are smart to weigh the options. DVC is wonderful and may be right for you -- but you don't want to leap into something without knowing the costs.

Disney does a great job keeping the annual dues stable. There was a stretch of about 5 years where they only moved slightly up and down. In the past few years, they have been adversely effected by low interest rates on invested money and higher insurance costs for property and CM benefits. Hopefully, these will soon turnaround.

WDW resorts have also just gone through a terrible time for tourism when room rates were held down and terrific deals were often readily available. I doubt that will continue forever either.

As mentioned, today you are getting your moderate room for $600 (4-5 nights?). 10 years from now what do you think you will be paying -- my guess is that it could be double that amount.

To give you an idea on dues costs. In 1993, OKW dues were $2.56 per point. For 2004, dues were $3.68 per point. On a 150 point ownership, that's an increase of $168 over the original dues.

From 1997 (haven't got info for 1993) to 2004, the rack rate for an OKW studio during regular season went up $55 per night (plus tax which also saw a percentage increase). The 2005 rate is up an additional $5.00 for the studio.

Something you might want to keep in mind -- the dues can be payed by automatic monthly deduction from a bank account. DVC does not charge any interest on these payments. You can also charge it to a credit card but then you will have to pay the CC interest if you don't pay it off right away. Also, if you have a Disney Visa, the credits you earn can be used to pay DVC dues.

 

[CarolMN]

You will have to do the math for yourself, but in general:

* DVC is a good value for those who go to WDW at least annually and stay on site in a moderate or better resort. Over the long run, DVC will allow you to pay less for lodging while staying in larger/deluxe accomodations.

* If you go less often or do not always stay on site in at least a moderate resort, your time to "break even" will be longer or may not happen at all.

* DVC works best for those who can plan/commit to the trips 10-11 months in advance.

*Keep in mind, that DVC is only for lodging - you will still have all the other expenses associated with a trip to WDW. Many who purchase end up going more often than in the past and actually spend more money on vacations to WDW than they have in the past.

In the end, only you can decide if DVC is right for your situation. The posters here are not always the most objective bunch when it comes to DVC, so keep that in mind, LOL! Again, you'll have to do the math for yourself.

Hope you feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

Best wishes -

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Dalpal
but it would be like staying at a deluxe so It might be worth it.

With all due respect, it's not "like" staying at a deluxe...DVC rooms are every bit the deluxe accommodation. In fact, even the DVC studios are better than the vast majority of Disney's "Deluxe" class resort room.

Every single DVC guest room has an in-room kitchen or kitchenette. Every room has its own balcony. Every room has either in-room laundry facilities or free access to common-area facilities. 1B / 2B / Grand Villas have whirlpool tubs, DVD players, two or more TVs, sofabeds in the living room, etc.

Its just my DH and myself, but I have nine grandchildren, with one on the way ........ so I could see us needing more points ,,,,,That would mean higher Maintance fee............

And if you continue paying cash and want to fund your grandchildren's trips, then you'll be paying more cash out of pocket for each trip. The only equitable comparison is apples-to-apples.

Just 150 points can get you as many as 12-14 nights in a Studio per year, depending on season, resort or day of the week. 14 nights at $600 per year means you're paying $42 per night for the room with NO resort taxes.

Of course, that sort of savings doesn't kick-in until you reach the breakeven point on the initial investment. When compared to other WDW Deluxe resort prices, the breakeven is typically 5-7 years. Compared to the moderate prices, it will certainly take longer to break even, but you're also receiving a substantial increase in the quality of accommodation.

 

[PamOKW]

Just another thought -- you also have the option of reducing some of your costs because of the kitchen facilities. Many of us don't really "cook" but even snacks and breakfast add up. I find it more enjoyable to have the breakfast I enjoy while sitting on the balcony enjoying the view instead of heading out, standing in line and having a so-so breakfast for $20 bucks a head. These types of savings can add up even if you only skip a few breakfasts out during a trip. If you stay in the larger unit, the convenience of the in-room washer/dryer also cuts down on luggage needed.

 

[spiceycat]

there is the property tax - but you can write this off your income tax.

DVC really tries to control their fees - they can't control the taxes or insurance - these have got up alot once or twice.

 

[crisi]

With all due respect, it's not "like" staying at a deluxe...DVC rooms are every bit the deluxe accommodation. In fact, even the DVC studios are better than the vast majority of Disney's "Deluxe" class resort room.

Sorry, can't agree. Its like staying in a Deluxe. But when I stay at the BWI I get daily maid service included - have to purchase that seperately over on the Villa side. I don't mind not having daily maid service, but it isn't "every bit" the Deluxe accomodation.

When I'm in a BWI room, I get two queen beds. On the Villa side in a studio, I get a queen bed and a pullout couch. A lot of people like the pullout better - particularly if you are traveling as a couple - but it isn't the "same" and if the expectation is the same, there will be disappointment.

When I stay in a WL room, I'm in the Lodge. I have a choice (which I pay for) in view. When I'm at the VWL I'm off in the Villa portion, which is very nice, but it isn't the Lodge - not the "every bit" like the Lodge. And its luck of the check in moment on what view I get. You don't risk the dumpster view at the Lodge if you pay for a woods view.

At most of the Deluxes, five can fit in a room. The only DVC studio that claims five is the BWV studio plus - and all reports are that you'd need a small five year old to want to sleep on that daybed!

OKW and SSR have their own unique issues being compared to Deluxes. Both are (haven't stayed myself, but I'm sure), very nice resorts. Neither have the Deluxe access (i.e. in the hotel) to Disney's top restaurants (unless you think walking distance to DTD counts) or interior hallways found in all the Deluxe resorts. Neither offer valet parking or room service.

DVC resorts have a lot in common with Deluxe Disney resorts - and in some ways are nicer. But they aren't the same. And in some ways they can be considered not as nice.

Disney hotel suites offer nearly everything the one and two bedrooms do - if a jaccuzzi is important to you. You pay through the nose, but if you want a DVD player in your room, its available at Deluxe resorts outside DVC.

Sorry to harp on this point. If I had disappointment in my first DVC stay it was that posts about it being "just like" a deluxe resort stay had me forming some expectations that a timeshare wasn't going to meet. Fortunately, I'd done enough reading to keep a damper on those expectations.

 

[tjkraz]

Crisi:

Point taken.

I didn't really intend to get down to an amenity-by-amenity review of DVC vs. Deluxe, but you did as good a job as any. More than anything, I hope it's clear that DVC rooms and resorts are a whole lot closer to "Deluxe" than "Moderate."

Next time try to include the the square foot of the units. I'm really disappointed that you missed that one.

 

[PamOKW]

Dalpal -- Just wanted to add for you to keep asking questions -- Those two smiling cuties just brighten up the day!

 

[Dean]

Plus if you tend to do long weekends, the numbers will ever work out in your favor. DVC will be a good value for weekdays or 7 day visits but it will not save you money in the long run. What it will do is give you better accomodations overall for around the average price of a moderate.

 

[Pa@okw95]

I hate to bring this up but your age should be a factor in your decision also. You said you are grand-parents, I would think hard on the age factor, plus WDW is changing. but the big factor is you will be changing also. Think of your age, it is important one way or another.

 

[debloco]

Dalpal,
We went through the same thing before we bought. The reality is that you will pay more in maintenance fees over the life of the contract than you do to buy the points. Let's say you purchase 150 points at the VWL on a resale. If you buy at $72 a point thats $10,800 (not including closing costs). Maintenance fees are currently $4.22 per point, per year. So this year it would be $633. Since the VWL has opened, the total average increase per year in maintenance fees has been 3.91%. My DH calculated this by taking the total increase over four years (16.57%), then took the 4th root to arrive at a 3.91% (this is the compound annual growth rate). Which in this case is equlivent to the average increase each year. Even if there we NO increases in maintenance fees for the entire 38 years, over the life of the contract you would pay $24,054. If you calculate an average increase of 3.91%, the total cost of maintenance fees over the 38 years jumps to $30,507.60. This was almost a deal breaker for us, but we are currently waiting on our closing documents for a resale at the VWL. For us, (well,mostly me) there is a part of buying into the DVC that isn't about the numbers and the money. Crunch your numbers, debate, think, talk...and make a decision based on what's right for you and your family. Good luck!

CLC Tiger Pom Mom

 

[poohnpiglet3]

I would think the best thing for you (just my opinion) would be to buy a modest package, then bank and borrow your points to take a trip every other year and take your family. How fun would that be for all of them?! Or you could just go with your DH. That's nice as well!

I hope you're able to make a decision - it's a very personal thing, but for us, buying into DVC was the right choice because we know that we will have so many wonderful memories with our kids.

Best of luck to you! Don't rush into a decision - make sure it's the right one.

Sherri
(Are your little ones on your sig twins too?)

 

[gchiker]

When crunching the numbers and trying to figure out if DVC is right for you, an often overlooked advantage is the savings in tax. I don't know off hand what the rate is, but when you check out at the end of a DVC stay, you not only don't get a bill for the room, but there is no hotel tax to pay either. If you still have a receipt from a previous WDW resort stay, check it and see how much you paid in tax. I think most states charge 10-12%. It adds up.

And, of course, you may be able to deduct the portion of your maintenance fees which reflect real estate taxes on your income tax form every April.

 

[Duckielucky]

Dalpal, did you say that you had nine grandchildren? You will have a great time having them with you at Disney World but, Granny, you need a lot more points.

As far as additional cost goes, don't forget about those park passes and meals. I can see you buying nine t-shirts and nine Mickey ears. Disney World is fun but not cheap.

Another thing, who is going to get your 150 points when you nolonger need them? You can't split 150 points.

 

[carlos1117]

Hope this helps. Got this from Doc. Yearly maintenance fees at DVC.

Year OKW BWV VB VB(sub) HH VWL BCV SSR
2004 3.68 4.25 4.67 3.67 3.86 4.22 4.18 3.80
2003 3.49 4.11 4.37 3.45 3.70 4.05 3.97
2002 3.22 3.92 4.17 3.33 3.48 3.80 3.77
2001 3.13 3.82 3.97 2.70 3.32 3.63
2000 3.16 3.94 4.07 2.87 3.25 3.62
1999 3.16 4.02 2.82 3.18
1998 3.17 3.94 2.76 3.20
1997 3.14 3.84 2.90 3.16
1996 2.99 3.70 2.82 3.16
1995 2.84
1994 2.70
1993 2.63
1992 2.56
1991 2.51