"Fury rises at Disney over use of foreign workers"

[cmash95]

first of all disney has been cntracting their it for years. this is nothing new. very few IT jobs at disney were employed by the company, they were from a local third party company and as far as catapillar hiring foreing engineers, there is a huge shortage of qualified engineers in this counry my niece is graduationg in May and she had 50 major world wide companies offering her a job. She is working at Google because of what they offered her and she wanted to stay in the northeast. Caterpillar is based in Illinois and there are lots of people who don't want to live there.

 

[wallrock]

This is information technology, not rocket science. There are plenty of IT contractors in India that can do the job for far less money. iPhones are assembled in China to keep costs down. IT work can easily be subcontracted out to the lowest bidder.

As of now that's the case, but I see the trend slowly reversing and may even do a full 180 within a decade. The salaries in India are starting to creep up even now as their middle class grows and within 10 years our wages will most likely be in the dumpster. Their middle class salaries are nowhere near to salaries here, but companies will start to feel the sting soon because they can't take advantage of the free labor that they've been spoiled with over here since the 1980s. Salaried employees stateside have those extra conditions attached like working weekends, after hours, performing oncall duties and so on. I'd wager that some of those stares into smartphones in the parks isn't someone checking their fastpass schedule, but rather looking into what the boss is wanting. These are things that people overseas won't accept unless they're compensated - something we in IT in the states should have screamed about years ago but didn't.

 

[Josh Hendy]

... but companies will start to feel the sting soon because they can't take advantage of the free labor that they've been spoiled with over here since the 1980s. Salaried employees stateside have those extra conditions attached like working weekends, after hours, performing oncall duties and so on. I'd wager that some of those stares into smartphones in the parks isn't someone checking their fastpass schedule, but rather looking into what the boss is wanting. These are things that people overseas won't accept unless they're compensated - something we in IT in the states should have screamed about years ago but didn't.

Something in this.

During the tech bubble (the first one) companies could always get people to keep logging in, checking their email and answering their cell phones every evening of the week and right through the weekends. But these folks were getting lots of stock options so they had the very real possibility, even probability, of becoming millionaires in a few years. The companies also usually paid for their home internet and cell phone. Then around 5 or 6 years ago (at a huge and successful tech company), I witnessed it change overnight. No more stock options for any grunts or lower management. No more paying for your home internet or cell phone. They even got rid of the free bottled water, juice and soda in the break rooms and replaced them with vending machines. Yet the company acted like the job description was still, "Whatever it takes." I moved on and didn't get to see the long term result of this, but I thought at the time that this is a tectonic change in North American hi tech. Once the stock options and perks are removed then ***? And needless to say the foreign contractors we were forced to deal with NEVER had to put in extra time, and it was the North Americans who had to log in at all hours for teleconferences etc. and help them do their jobs.

So not only will foreign workers not put up wit dat, I have a feeling that unless American techies are really dedicated or really scared for their jobs, they won't be doing a lot of that either.

 

[wallrock]

Something in this.

During the tech bubble (the first one) companies could always get people to keep logging in, checking their email and answering their cell phones every evening of the week and right through the weekends. But these folks were getting lots of stock options so they had the very real possibility, even probability, of becoming millionaires in a few years. The companies also usually paid for their home internet and cell phone. Then around 5 or 6 years ago (at a huge and successful tech company), I witnessed it change overnight. No more stock options for any grunts or lower management. No more paying for your home internet or cell phone. They even got rid of the free bottled water, juice and soda in the break rooms and replaced them with vending machines. Yet the company acted like the job description was still, "Whatever it takes." I moved on and didn't get to see the long term result of this, but I thought at the time that this is a tectonic change in North American hi tech. Once the stock options and perks are removed then ***? And needless to say the foreign contractors we were forced to deal with NEVER had to put in extra time, and it was the North Americans who had to log in at all hours for teleconferences etc. and help them do their jobs.

So not only will foreign workers not put up wit dat, I have a feeling that unless American techies are really dedicated or really scared for their jobs, they won't be doing a lot of that either.

100% agree. I remember a few of those bubbles all too well.

You could say a similar one existed with the Y2K fiasco. In 1998 if you knew COBOL you could ask for the moon and you'd get it.

A wage spike in India could be the next 'bubble' for demand in domestic IT skills, but as you mention the dedication has worn off. The young energetic IT crowd of the 1990s and on (I was among them) are getting too old to stay up late at night or work weekends, or even care. The threat of offshoring has been hanging over our heads for so long we've practically become numb to it and hardly react anymore. We just accept that sooner or later we'll get the axe and will start greeting folks at Wal-Mart.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

As of now that's the case, but I see the trend slowly reversing and may even do a full 180 within a decade. The salaries in India are starting to creep up even now as their middle class grows and within 10 years our wages will most likely be in the dumpster. Their middle class salaries are nowhere near to salaries here, but companies will start to feel the sting soon because they can't take advantage of the free labor that they've been spoiled with over here since the 1980s. Salaried employees stateside have those extra conditions attached like working weekends, after hours, performing oncall duties and so on. I'd wager that some of those stares into smartphones in the parks isn't someone checking their fastpass schedule, but rather looking into what the boss is wanting. These are things that people overseas won't accept unless they're compensated - something we in IT in the states should have screamed about years ago but didn't.

Have you actually ever been to India? Do you even know the first thing about India from personal experience, compared to just reading something in a magazine or website? Based on this reply, I seriously doubt it....

 

[wallrock]

Have you actually ever been to India? Do you even know the first thing about India from personal experience, compared to just reading something in a magazine or website? Based on this reply, I seriously doubt it....

In point of fact I have, both in the big cities as well as the rural areas. I've been to villages where the majority of people had never seen a person from North America.

I have friends that live in India. Not US citizens that decided to move there, but bona fide Indian nationals.

I work with the Indian counterparts in my company each and every day. Counterparts that are actually in India and not stateside.


Given that the focus of my response has to do with IT wage and work issues here in the states I'm not sure where your question is coming from, but it sounds to me that you neither work in IT or have been to the subcontinent yourself.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

In point of fact I have, both in the big cities as well as the rural areas. I've been to villages where the majority of people had never seen a person from North America.

I have friends that live in India. Not US citizens that decided to move there, but bona fide Indian nationals.

I work with the Indian counterparts in my company each and every day. Counterparts that are actually in India and not stateside.


Given that the focus of my response has to do with IT wage and work issues here in the states I'm not sure where your question is coming from, but it sounds to me that you neither work in IT or have been to the subcontinent yourself.

I have been to India, in 1995. I traveled through large cities and tiny villages. At least at that time, there was not much of a "middle class" in evidence, except perhaps in New Delhi. You had people begging for their next meal, and people living in giant, and I mean giant, mansions. Not much in between. Certainly not what an American or Canadian would think of as a "middle class". I guess things have changed more than I thought in the last 20 years. One of my favorite pictures from that trip is one I dubbed "contrast in technology". Some guys were putting up a billboard advertising cell phones using bamboo scaffolding. At least at that time, there were also ultrasound clinics on what seemed like every corner of every town of any size. It took a while for us to figure out that these clinics were there so that the parents could determine if their child was male or female. Females were not wanted, and thus many were (at least at that time) aborted solely based on sex.

 

[Goofy2015]

IT

 

[rwdavis2]

Updated article, I think:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/19/as-floridians-are-displaced-rubio-demands-more-foreign-workers/

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'd like to point out that Rubio is going nowhere...

He's just one of the 16 Shriners stuffed into a VW Beetle at this point.

This whole thread as it relates to Disney is hypothetical without almost no chance of moving beyond it.

Not politics...just the truth.

 

[KaptKaveman]

Yep no politics there

Timeline

Disney announces record profits
Employee has stellar review
Disney decides profits weren't high enough
Employee forced to train replacement
Employee fired

I know Florida is a right to work state but I doubt this is going to work out for them in the long run.

 

[Josh Hendy]

The office was soon flooded with the foreign workers, most of whom were fresh out of college. In the first phase, the foreign worker sat next to the American worker in “knowledge transfer sessions,” and videotaped everything they said and did, and then reviewed the tapes with the American worker to ensure accuracy.

In the second phase, the guest worker began working alongside the American worker, who was supposed to oversee and critique them. And in the last 30 days the guest worker completely took over the American worker’s job, while the American worker sat by and watched, tasked only with keeping them from making serious mistakes.

I expect a large money-making enterprise to be unsentimental about making business decisions, even if at times it appears to be callous. But this isn't callousness, it's sadism.

 

[Castle2Castle]

It's unfortunate to lose a job, and I can certainly see the training being uncomfortable, but I'd probably stop at those adjectives (rather than sadism). They also got paid more to do less over that time -- from the article it sounds like their regular salary, a severance package and a 10% bonus for sticking out the 90 days of training -- and they apparently felt that money was worth the discomfort of training their replacement(s).

That same unnamed employee and the writer go on to essentially say IT (and STEM professions more broadly) is a saturated market with or without the inclusion of foreign workers. If that's the case, then while there may have been other ways for Disney to handle the situation, most of them probably still would have involved replacing most or all of the same employees.

 

[Josh Hendy]

It's quite possibly illegal for Disney to have applied for H1B visa quotas by lying about the unavailability of American workers at the going rate. They obviously already had plenty of American workers and probably also had lots of job applications from qualified American graduates.

If they offer someone a severance package and a small bonus only if they (a) train their lower-paid and possibly illegally-hired replacement and (b) pretend to like it ... well you can call it anything you want.

 

[gsimpson]

Disney is simply interested in making the most money they can with the least exposure. I owned a software development firm for nearly 20 years and a week didn't go by that I wasn't approached by an off shore firm explaining the benefits of hiring "teams" in other countries of bringing in H1b Visa workers to fill the rolls. For those of you that believe the politicians when they say you can't bring in an H1b holder until you've proven that you can't get a citizen or green card holder to fill the job that is simply and completely not true. The out sourcing consultants were able to show the exact pathway to follow to replace my entire team with H1b workers without having to do anything other than signing the papers (which I certainly didn't do). To add insult to injury there were tax incentives for me to drop citizens and hire the H1b holders. Of course besides the lower wages since all the H1bs were contractors I wouldn't have to pay their social security, workman's comp, or any of the other cost associated with employees. One of the other "benefits" to H1b employees, in theory if you fire them, then their H1b goes invalid so essentially you can treat them like slaves and there isn't anything they can do about because you can cancel their visa and they have to leave the country. Again, just for emphasis, this was all explained in writing by the "insourcing" consulting firms. If Disney were selling a product that was based on cost of goods I could almost, kind of, a little bit, understand their treating employees with such disdain but since their product is pretty much based on what market will bare, they are the highest in the industry, and they have record profits this is nothing more than greed and eventually it will catch up to them.

 

[Friendly Frog]

I agree with everything gsimpson said except for it catching up with Disney. Sadly it probably will not. Corporate greed will win, the american worker will lose and the trend will continue. Welcome to the new america where our government pays a company to hire a foreign worker over an american one. No one cares unless it is their occupation impacted. Tech today, engineers tomorrow, then it will continue, doctors, dentists, really no position is safe. The company pension plan is long gone and medical benefits, vacation and sick days are going fast. The only way for american workers to compete in this environment is to live on a a wage and lifestyle like the imported employee . Wake up america, don't think you are safe. Stop H1b NOW!

 

[tmoo]

It really depends on what type of IT jobs they outsourced. If they turned over things like operating system maintenance, email, server monitoring, and database administration, then those skills are fairly fungible. It doesn't take a depth of Disney system knowledge to perform those functions. If they turned over Disney specific application support and development then that will be a long term nightmare. The knowledge drain from losing those employees would be an incredible loss.

 

[Planogirl]

It's sad no matter who is replaced. I realize that companies are all about profits but firing (yes firing) good American workers to bring in cheaper foreign workers after making those American workers train their replacements is just plain cruel. Someone said that apparently they were willing but people do what they have to in order to stay employed for as long as possible.

 

[cranbiz]

A lot of Disney IT is outsourced to 3rd party companies like Xerox and has been for a long time. I know several of the storage admins at Xerox who are working at WDW.

In the new IT world, Support as a Service, Software as a Service, Infrastructure as a Service, etc is an extension of cloud computing. Instead of building it and maintaining it yourself, companies are contracting it out to the major IT service companies.

 

[Castle2Castle]

A lot of Disney IT is outsourced to 3rd party companies like Xerox and has been for a long time. I know several of the storage admins at Xerox who are working at WDW.

People don't mind losing their jobs so long as it's to an American workforce. It's those foreigners that make it so bad. Or something to that effect I guess.