FP--- Disney has become too regimented

[Doug M]

I find it amusing to read the daily FP+ gripe threads blaming it for ruining spontaneous trips while people totally ignore or discount the effect of ever rising crowd levels and virtually no increase in attractions to spread the crowds out. If it wasnt for FP, you can forget about getting on most rides without an hour wait, and with FP-, you had to get to the park at RD and sprint to the machine to get your headliner ticket. Now many on here love RD, and it is superior, but they dont care that some of us have small children (or spouses) who sleep in, or we also like nighttime entertainment so doing 14 hour days isnt an option. I bet last year my family rides half as many rides as we did without FP+ except for the two days we RD.

 

[Jennytoon]

I find it amusing to read the daily FP+ gripe threads blaming it for ruining spontaneous trips while people totally ignore or discount the effect of ever rising crowd levels and virtually no increase in attractions to spread the crowds out. If it wasnt for FP, you can forget about getting on most rides without an hour wait, and with FP-, you had to get to the park at RD and sprint to the machine to get your headliner ticket. Now many on here love RD, and it is superior, but they dont care that some of us have small children (or spouses) who sleep in, or we also like nighttime entertainment so doing 14 hour days isnt an option. I bet last year my family rides half as many rides as we did without FP+ except for the two days we RD.

I agree. I also find it puzzling when people complain about how ADRs really put a hole in your spontaneity, when the only recent change to the ADR system (no-show fee) has, by most reports I've seen, increased the availability of last-minute reservations.

My experience is: if you want to eat at a specific restaurant on a specific day, then yes, make an ADR because why take the risk? But if you just want to eat at some nice table service? You can get a ressie a day or two out, or day of, in some nice place without any problems. And if you just don't want to spend the money unless you can get exactly the place you want? Well, that's what resort food courts, quick service, or <gasp> off-site restaurants are for. So the only time you need to sacrifice spontaneity for an ADR is if you want to have a specific experience, and the idea that it would be logistically possible that everyone should spontaneously be able to eat at Crystal Palace, given the # of people in the park, is just, just ... words fail me.

 

[bigcrit]

I think long time Disney fans are disappointed in the system. It DOES take away spontaneity! The original system allowed you tour as you please while still getting FP's. The new system requires you to decide very far in advance. It also treats people staying off-site as second class citizens, which Disney never did before, but now does.

 

[Shaden]

I find it amusing to read the daily FP+ gripe threads blaming it for ruining spontaneous trips while people totally ignore or discount the effect of ever rising crowd levels and virtually no increase in attractions to spread the crowds out. .

People aren't ignoring the increased crowds, the increased crowds just fail to explain the increase in SB wait times. FP+ Logically increases the wait times on many rides. It is a natural outcome of a) increasing the capacity devoted to FP b)adding FPs to rides that didn't previously have them c) increasing the awareness of the FP system d)Which in the end amounts to - More virtual people in the parks at any given day. Because more people are using FP, when you are doing so you are essentially acting as 2 people in the parks at the same time. Because you can virtually be in 2 places at the same time. Waiting for one ride in person, while you have a virtual spot in line for another.

FP+ naturally increases the wait times on rides.

If it wasnt for FP, you can forget about getting on most rides without an hour wait, and with FP-, you had to get to the park at RD and sprint to the machine to get your headliner ticket. .

This just was not true, not ever. Even for TSMM, you could just walk over and grab and FP, no need to sprint. And even most days RD was not necessary, the one often exception being TSMM

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't understand what other options there are to the increased crowds at Disney? If they did away with FP+, we would all be standing in 2 hour lines. Everyone wants spontaneity, and the ability to sleep in until 10am, then walk on the rides. The only possible solution is that Disney restricts the number of guests. I go every year knowing it will be very busy. I get on my fav rides thanks to the FP+ system. I also ride many other thanks to EMH.
For all those who hate the FP+ and crowds what is your solution?
Just curious, I hate crowds too, when enough people stop going to WDW , things should get better.

I remember our fist trip with teh kids, back when there was only MK and Future World in Epcot. Holy Lines!!!!!! Holy expensive! Holy I was never going again! There was no FP and teh dining was all these basket things. same whereever you wanted to eat. Hamburge fries and a drink, or hot dog fries and a drink. Still hungry? Buy another full basket and drink.

I am not sure how Disney should handle the increased crowds. Folks suggest doing away with Fp and doing away with ADR's, btu then we all are in lones all day long!

 

[WillAustin]

I find it amusing to read the daily FP+ gripe threads blaming it for ruining spontaneous trips while people totally ignore or discount the effect of ever rising crowd levels and virtually no increase in attractions to spread the crowds out. If it wasnt for FP, you can forget about getting on most rides without an hour wait, and with FP-, you had to get to the park at RD and sprint to the machine to get your headliner ticket. Now many on here love RD, and it is superior, but they dont care that some of us have small children (or spouses) who sleep in, or we also like nighttime entertainment so doing 14 hour days isnt an option. I bet last year my family rides half as many rides as we did without FP+ except for the two days we RD.

I think the point is that even when it was extremely crowded, with the legacy FP system you could still get 7+ FP rides in a day. Now getting 3 (with tiers) isn't really something for which to be thankful.

 

[Doug M]

Yes you could walk over to get a FP, but if you didnt RD on any headliner normally you are late afternoon or possibly out of luck on TSMM. Now true FP+ you are 2 people for 3 rides, you were also 2 people for FP-, but just that many depending on how many you grabbed. But more people absolutely means more SB wait. 2012 to 2013 in MK alone was 3k more people in the parks per day. It is up 5 to 6k daily in the last 5 years or so, 1 new ride and 1 new character meet during that time i think. In HS while not 6k more daily, some rise, while attractions are less. I have not seen the rise from 2013 to 2014 yet, but that could push MK averages to 7k to 9k over the last 6 years, how cant that make SB higher everywhere, not all those are doing 7DMT or A&E.

 

[SeilerBird]

It blows me away that WDW is 43 square miles with 25 million annual visitors and people want to be "spontaneous". Go to the beach if you want to be spontaneous. Disney requires planning.

 

[Doug M]

Long gone are the days like in 2000 when DW and me honeymooned during late Sept and a vast number of rides were "do you want to stay on the ride and go again?" I wish it was that way, but it looks like that ship has sailed.

 

[mousehockey37]

It blows me away that WDW is 43 square miles with 25 million annual visitors and people want to be "spontaneous". Go to the beach if you want to be spontaneous. Disney requires planning.

You have to still have to be spontaneous, regardless of how down to the second you plan. There are so many things that can throw your day for a loop if you aren't expecting it. The weather is the biggest variable that can possibly change your entire plan.

I've always been one to have an idea of where I was going and what I wanted to do and let the rest of the day just kinda happen.

 

[Doug M]

Takes some invented numbers to show what crowds going up might do.

MK maybe can process 20k riders per hour (maybe more, maybe less)

Now add 10k more visiters vs 6 or so years back. That is essentially 30 mintes worth of people, some will be eating or shopping so maybe knock that down to 20 minutes, does that sound familiar?

 

[starsweeper]

I disagree with those who no longer see a need for park hoppers. We had great success hitting MK for RD and getting through most of the park by 12-1pm, then hopping to another park with FP+ booked there.

However, if you are a family that sleeps in, FP+ helps but also limits your options to take advantage of park hoppers with much success.

 

[Doug M]

I disagree with those who no longer see a need for park hoppers. We had great success hitting MK for RD and getting through most of the park by 12-1pm, then hopping to another park with FP+ booked there.

However, if you are a family that sleeps in, FP+ helps but also limits your options to take advantage of park hoppers with much success.

I agree 100%, plus the fact that HS is a half day park, and AK maybe a 60% or 70% of a day park, you can slip over and hit MK or Epcot for the rest of the day.

 

[kiford]

It also treats people staying off-site as second class citizens, which Disney never did before, but now does.

In 2000 when we stayed on-site we discovered that we were able to book restaurants 24 hours in advance at the hotel while off-site guests couldn't book until the day of and had to go to the restaurant (or possibly to a central location in the parks). EMH have been available for a few years now only for those who stay on-site. I believe that they'll let on-site guests into Epcot through the International Gate prior to regular opening (I'm never up that early so I can't verify that). ADRs can be booked at 180+10 days for on-site guests versus 180 days for off-site. DME for no cost to and from airport. Plus other perks that some people value and some don't but which aren't available to off-site guests.

So for at least 15 years, Disney has been treating on-site versus off-site guests differently. Whether one considers this to be treating off-site guests as second class or simply as additional perks for giving Disney more of your money is personal perspective, but it's not a new concept. The only thing that has changed is what those perks are. Pay more, get more. You can view it as being treated as second class or as just a general principle of capitalism that Disney has embraced for a long time.

 

[Shaden]

Takes some invented numbers to show what crowds going up might do.

MK maybe can process 20k riders per hour (maybe more, maybe less)

Now add 10k more visiters vs 6 or so years back. That is essentially 30 mintes worth of people, some will be eating or shopping so maybe knock that down to 20 minutes, does that sound familiar?

Stop, just stop. The issue isn't 6 years ago, or 2 year ago, the issue is one year to the next. ONE year. One year without FP+, the next year with. That's what the stats that show how significantly SB wait times have increased.

No one is debating whether over the last 10 years crowds have increased and if that's going to have an impact on rides. One year to the next. First year without FP+, second year with. This was most obvious comparing Winter/Spring/summer of 2013 to 2014.

 

[Doug M]

So you dont think crowds were up from. 2013 to 2014? If they were similiar to 2012 to 2013 that is 3k more daily in MK.

 

[Shaden]

Yes you could walk over to get a FP, but if you didnt RD on any headliner normally you are late afternoon or possibly out of luck on TSMM. .

This also isn't universally true. I am sure it was accurate on the busier days of the year, 8 9 10 crowds, 1/4 to 1/3 of the year. The other 2 thirds of the year and you could pull FPs all day every day. We regularly pulled FPs for headliners all afternoon and into the evening.

 

[Doug M]

Well other than people within easy driving distance or people willing to pull kids from school, most people go in June to Aug or major holidays.

 

[Shaden]

So you dont think crowds were up from. 2013 to 2014? If they were similiar to 2012 to 2013 that is 3k more daily in MK.

Perhaps you missed my reply to your post in the other thread, so I will post it again.

The Spike in wait times was between 2013 and 2014 it was literally one year to the next. I am sure that wait times have gone up over the 2008-2014 period as well, but when people have been reporting the spike in wait times its one year to the next. Josh@ easy WDW all through 2014 was comparing wait times to the previous year, now its true that Fall/early winter attendance in 2014 was up a hefty 7%, but summer and Spring attendance was only up 3%. That's a significant number of people to be sure, but I don't think that accounts for some of the significant increases in wait times.

Well other than people within easy driving distance or people willing to pull kids from school, most people go in June to Aug or major holidays.

While more people go on any given day in June July and the first couple weeks in Aug, MOST people don't go during those dates.

 

[Shaden]

And what is also very important is that Josh has compared waits on "like" days. So where crowd levels are the same, and notes that even with similar crowds the wait times are still increased under FP+.