FP+ curiosity

[bkb91]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

 

[glvsav37]

I'll be honest, while I am not a fan of the change...I have to trust the Diz Braintrust that they know more about the theme park business then I do. I am sure they have table after table of mathematical data for guest flow and what a park can handle.

But....for me, I think the biggest area where many companies drop the ball on major changes is that they assume too much about their product and are often too close to their product to make effective changes.

Most of the changes are made by executives and managers who can walk down Main St USA any time and can come and go as they please with their group of suits.

Now, float many of these changes before you implement them to a typical parent, they visit 1x every 2 years after saving all they could, they have 3 kids, who are all hungry at different times, one naps the other 2 don't, touring in the hot summer, 1 kid meets the height req and mom has just had knee surgery ...."you want me to pick my rides, how many days before I even get here, and I may or may not be able to change them....huh?!?"


It sounds ridiculous, but it seems the biggest complaints about the changes is that it is trying to force guests into being one type of personality ....the planner. When in reality, we can't all be expected to be that invested for something that is supposed to be relaxing.

I plan enough through the year in my business and family day to day. I go on vacation to get away from that.

the current system fit everyone: the planners, the floaters and the in between (me)

 

[MiramarQE]

Agree that Disney is trying to force more "planning" - the reason is better logistics - for Disney.

They have an enormous capital investment in the parks, restaurants, transportation infrastructure, etc. To increase revenue (which their shareholders appreciate) they need to exploit that capital efficiently. An example: Why pay CM servers to stand around in a restaurant JUST IN CASE someone comes up to eat there - better to set up a system of high demand (dining plans - keeps those restaurants full) and advanced reservations - then you know exactly how many diners you can expect on a given evening - you can plan your workforce, your incoming materials (food), etc. very efficiently.

So take this another step - how do you efficiently move people around the parks while upping demand for hotel rooms - let's ration access to popular attractions - those things that BRING people into the parks - and give an advantage to WDW resort guests. FP+ demand forcasts the demand for the Park for the day (food at the QS restaurants, etc.) AND acts as an incentive to fill those expensive hotels (you can't pre-plan your FP unless you're in one of those WDW resorts)

MDE is supposed to (I think) function as the information system to manage this - you (the guest) have limited (by Disney) information on which to plan your days (remember since Disney controls the incoming information they can bias your decisions as to where to go) - and as an added bonus, since the system is WiFi they can track your movements around the resort - giving them more "Big Data" to use to better plan efficient logistic exploitation of their capital assets.

Of course, if you're not into planning, you're not going to enjoy your vacation as much as you might have under the old regime - but that appears to be the risk Disney is willing to take (with YOUR vacation)

 

[JZCubed]

While there is anecdotal evidence that some people feel some Standby lines are longer, there are as many anecdotal reports of people feeling as if the Parks have felt less crowded (implying lines are not longer). Of course, this would not apply to the Christmas/New Years week when Parks were 'sold out'.

From my own perspective - my family was at Disney for Halloween - FP+ made our vacation less stressful because there was no need to run for FP- and no need to be at every rope drop to obtain FP- at convenient times.

I get why some people do not like planning their days in advance, but for those of us who do plan our Parks before arrival, FP+ works better.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

~For us, the legacy fastpass was dated and it did not compliment our touring style. We felt "controlled" by the strict time restraints associated with legacy fp.

~In order to make FP+ work for us, we would spend the morning collecting fp's and riding standby, until all the fp's ran out around 1PM. Then we would hoard the fp's to use later in the evening. So essentially -- we pulled fp's and used them whenever we wanted after the return window opened.

~I don't think there is anything spontaneous about the legacy fp. I have no control of my day. I'm told when to return back to same area in 45 minutes or 6+ hours. I can't pull another fp for up to two hours. We spent our day criss crossing the parks to ride the e tickets and most popular rides first.

~We definitely experienced a lot more, by using the Magic Bands/FP+ and eliminating the legacy fp. It's very time consuming racing around from fp machine to fp machine until they run out.

~~I think Disney was responding to an emerging market centered around their product. A substantial number of guests were paying for outside services like the Touring Plan lines app and subscribing to park planning sites to plan their Disney vacation. I think Disney was simply attempting to address a need from their customers. I love the MDE app, Magic Bands/FP+, online adr, online check in, etc. I prefer to do things online.

 

[Krissy562]

I think it will be interesting to see what FP+ availability will be like for the non-planners. How will Disney release these once the legacy machines are gone? I'm under the assumption that they won't allow all Soarin' to sell out to early planners; that they will release them in spurts, and save some for same-day. I think we'll have a better idea of what life will be like for last minute crowd once all the machines are gone and all on-site guests are on a level playing field. I'm sure there's been endless tinkering with the flow of availability behind the scenes so they can see what actually happens in terms of lines.
The tiering actually works to the distinct advantage of the RD crowd; since no one will be able to have two headliners reserved, that's the only way to guarantee no wait for both TT /Soarin', and same with RnR/TSM.

 

[ArwenMarie]

They're taking the pool of Fastpasses and taking back the mechanism to distribute them. It's part rationing (for lack of a better word) to try to increase customer satisfaction. And it's probably part looking for more revenue, in ways that we haven't seen yet. They saw an asset that was previously "free" with park admission and said, Hmm, we could do something with that.

 

[Missyrose]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

Disney's largest goal was to lock as many guests into as many days in their parks as they can. Disney knows the minute guests arrive in Orlando, they start to see billboards and advertisements and can be easily persuaded to visit the other Orlando parks in addition to Disney.

By getting people to prebook FP+ reservations, Disney believes they can better ensure guests will spend more time in and around Disney's parks than if they hadn't prebooked those reservations.

 

[pampam]

I'll be honest, while I am not a fan of the change...I have to trust the Diz Braintrust that they know more about the theme park business then I do. I am sure they have table after table of mathematical data for guest flow and what a park can handle.

But....for me, I think the biggest area where many companies drop the ball on major changes is that they assume too much about their product and are often too close to their product to make effective changes.

Most of the changes are made by executives and managers who can walk down Main St USA any time and can come and go as they please with their group of suits.

Now, float many of these changes before you implement them to a typical parent, they visit 1x every 2 years after saving all they could, they have 3 kids, who are all hungry at different times, one naps the other 2 don't, touring in the hot summer, 1 kid meets the height req and mom has just had knee surgery ...."you want me to pick my rides, how many days before I even get here, and I may or may not be able to change them....huh?!?"


It sounds ridiculous, but it seems the biggest complaints about the changes is that it is trying to force guests into being one type of personality ....the planner. When in reality, we can't all be expected to be that invested for something that is supposed to be relaxing.

I plan enough through the year in my business and family day to day. I go on vacation to get away from that.

the current system fit everyone: the planners, the floaters and the in between (me)

Well said.

 

[mom2rtk]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

Shhhh......

When it comes with fancy technology you're supposed to think it's an enhancement.

 

[PlayaMan]

It is all about yield management and ride rationing.

You should really read up on the patent for the whole FP+ system to completely understand what Disney is doing.

 

[dayvewc]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

From my understanding, the actual goal from Disney is to get more people using their NextGen system (MyMagic +), which includes Magic Bands, FP+, tap to pay, Memory Maker, MDE, etc. The inclusion of FP+ and prescheduling, while sure to help some people and disadvantage others, is the incentive offered to customers to get them to opt in to the system. Was the FP+ system redesign fully thought through (IHMO) - No. But will the whole MM+ meet Disney's plan of gathering additional customer information? Yes. Have we seen the end result of what the system will be? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Laketravis]

It is all about yield management and ride rationing.

You should really read up on the patent for the whole FP+ system to completely understand what Disney is doing.

Excellent advice.

Here is the Disney patent PlayaMan is referring to: Guest Experience Management System and Method

 

[PlayaMan]

Make sure you get LakeTravis to interpret the patent for you and point out the applicable parts and show you what you should expect.

LakeTravis has proven to be an expert in all things patents and yield management.

You are fortunate he has shown up in this thread to answer all your questions on why Disney implemented this system and give you a behind the scenes insight.

It will be just like you were there in the boardrooms, when Disney made this New Coke-esque decision.

 

[nugov2]

~For us, the legacy fastpass was dated and it did not compliment our touring style. We felt "controlled" by the strict time restraints associated with legacy fp.
I don't understand. FP or FP+ has a return window. Sure you can reschedule, but you could also toss your FP and pull a new one if that time didn't work
~In order to make FP+ work for us, we would spend the morning collecting fp's and riding standby, until all the fp's ran out around 1PM. Then we would hoard the fp's to use later in the evening. So essentially -- we pulled fp's and used them whenever we wanted after the return window opened. Are you talking about while legacy FP was still available or double dipping? Either way it sounds like you don't like FP+. It forced you to try to grab as many legacy FP as you could b/c you knew 3 wouldn't be enough. It sounds like the biggest complaint most have about FP+ and that you don't like it.

~I don't think there is anything spontaneous about the legacy fp. I have no control of my day. I'm told when to return back to same area in 45 minutes or 6+ hours. I can't pull another fp for up to two hours. We spent our day criss crossing the parks to ride the e tickets and most popular rides first.

Realistically one is no more spontaneous than the other. They just work different. You look at the time...it works you grab it(at this point you pretty much know your day and meal plans(pro). The negative or con if someone is tired or sick or you are running late you may miss it. The other con, on busy days they may run out early. Pro to this system ability to pull more than 3 and by most accounts this is done without running all over the park(I think this is a common misconception about legacy)

FP+You look at the time 60 days in advance and hope you know what ride you will want to ride, but you know you will get on your favorite ride(this feature is a pro/con). The pro you get there and you don't want to ride it there is a possibility you can switch it, but the con is with the tearing and crowds what is available may be nothing you are interested in riding. The other con still is availability for your favorite ride being limited.

~We definitely experienced a lot more, by using the Magic Bands/FP+ and eliminating the legacy fp. It's very time consuming racing around from fp machine to fp machine until they run out.

Again, racing seems to be the buzz word used by many when describing the negative, but we had 3 2yr olds on our last trip and never raced anywhere. We pulled at least 8 FP on our MK day. Running seems to be a personal choice and not something required to actually get a lot of FP We were there in mid June and never went to a FP machine that we wanted and had them gone(but this I will say I believe this is a negative, but this negative exists for FP+ too. No system will allow everyone to ride a ride. My guess is most late comers to the park are the same people who won't be overly interested in scheduling FP+ anyway)

~~I think Disney was responding to an emerging market centered around their product. A substantial number of guests were paying for outside services like the Touring Plan lines app and subscribing to park planning sites to plan their Disney vacation. I think Disney was simply attempting to address a need from their customers. I love the MDE app, Magic Bands/FP+, online adr, online check in, etc. I prefer to do things online.

I think MB can be a good thing. I am just not so sure about FP+. I am not convinced it will be awful, but I wouldn't plan a trip either until all of the dust settles. I know too many people IRL who had too many problems and were unhappy. I hope it works out, I really loved being in WDW with the family, but if it doesn't I won't drop the kind of money we did to go back. We will just focus on other things and WDW will be the afterthought of the trip. The place we hit one more time for old times sake rather than the bulk of our trip. Our family is different than a lot here. We like to travel somewhere new for every trip, but WDW was planned to be a once every 3-5 year trip until the kids didn't want to go, I hope by the time we are ready to go back this system will be a much better version.

 

[Wood Nymph]

From a business perspective, a company implements new procedures to make things more efficient or "better" for all involved, and to improve upon what is already in place.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

Disney has to have had a plan, and I'm assuming longer lines and upset guest was not a part of it.

What am I missing?

You've made a lot of assumptions here that may or may not be true.

From what I understand, FP+ is only making standby lines longer and limit guests amount of Fastpasses.

I would guess that the majority of guests just want to go on a ride one time in any given day. After all, there is a lot to see and do at a park. Many rides tend to have low wait times, so guests would be able to use their limited fp+ choices for only the busy rides. It will be interesting to see if the people who used to pull multiple legacy fp-'s per day for the most popular rides will bother with the standby lines once they are limited to one a day. That will be a big factor in whether or not the standby lines for the popular rides become longer with the new fp+ program.

How is this going above and beyond and bettering the legacy fastpass?

This may not be better for you or for a lot of guests, but the earliest reports from many people who have used the fp+'s during the busiest times of the year have been positive. The old legacy fp- system was not better for a lot of families than the new system is. There are many advantages to being able to schedule ride times instead of rearranging a schedule to fit the legacy fp's. And we haven't seen the finished product yet, although I have a feeling we've seen the majority of it already.

 

[Laketravis]

Make sure you get LakeTravis to interpret the patent for you and point out the applicable parts and show you what you should expect.

LakeTravis has proven to be an expert in all things patents and yield management.

You are fortunate he has shown up in this thread to answer all your questions on why Disney implemented this system and give you a behind the scenes insight.

It will be just like you were there in the boardrooms, when Disney made this New Coke-esque decision.

Checkmate buddy.

And in just one move! LOL!

 

[PrincessJo]

We just returned from the parks and we LOVED FP+. We were there from Dec. 31 until Jan 6.

We were able to sleep in a little later, which we love. If we sleep until 8 or 9am, it means no grumpy, tired, irritable people at lunch time who are arguing and snarky. We had a good night sleep!

We used all of our FPs later in the afternoon and then filled in the gaps with other rides. We waited until after the fireworks and rode the headliners with minimal wait times.

We were able to ride everything we wated to. No big deal for us and we were there during one of the busiest weeks of the year. Sure there were crowds, but it really was manageable.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I think MB can be a good thing. I am just not so sure about FP+. I am not convinced it will be awful, but I wouldn't plan a trip either until all of the dust settles. I know too many people IRL who had too many problems and were unhappy. I hope it works out, I really loved being in WDW with the family, but if it doesn't I won't drop the kind of money we did to go back. We will just focus on other things and WDW will be the afterthought of the trip. The place we hit one more time for old times sake rather than the bulk of our trip. Our family is different than a lot here. We like to travel somewhere new for every trip, but WDW was planned to be a once every 3-5 year trip until the kids didn't want to go, I hope by the time we are ready to go back this system will be a much better version.

~With FP+, you get to choose your return window, this is not an option with legacy fp. When you pull the fp, you get the time printed on the ticket whatever that may be, it's random depending on when you arrive at the fp machine and how many tickets have already been pulled. If the return window doesn't work, you have to go back and try for another random time before they run out. We just don't do this. I will only visit the fp machine once.

~*For me*, legacy fp is very restrictive, which is why we collected and hoarded fp's all day to use later whenever we wanted. And, to pull another fp means I have to physically walk over to the machine and manually pull another fp -- if there are anymore available to pull. I have never pulled an a fp, toss it and then pull another fp. I could just ride standby in half the time. What you just described doesn't work for us at all. We love Magic Bands and FP+!

~Realistically, Magic Bands and FP+ is more spontaneous *for us*. I can't tell anyone else what is "spontaneous" for their family. For me, eliminating legacy fp gave us more freedom to do what we want, instead of running up and down all day from fp machine to fp machine. We ran all over the park to collect fp's before they ran out for the day. I don't know what other people do or how they tour. But, I know what works best for us.

~Your pros and cons are very different than mine. So, there really is no right or wrong. I won't even attempt to tell another individual what works for them. We're all different. But, I will continue share what works for me and what didn't work. We love Magic Bands and FP+ and we don't miss legacy fp at all.

~I don't care if "racing" is a buzz word. I am simply sharing our experiences and how we accomplished what we wanted to do -- when we wanted to do it -- we did race up and down all day in the hot sun from one fp machine to the next until they ran out. There was nothing spontaneous about it, and it sure wasn't fun! We don't miss legacy fp it one bit.

~I'm really looking forward to the final product. And we can't wait to get back to Disney World soon enough!!!

 

[Cyrano]

Since this is a commentary rather than assisting with trip planning it is moved to community board .