For real??

[challer]

I just finished the latest Dis email podcast.

Is it true that during the high holy days, the Contemporary elevator goes into "Sabbath" mode? I cannot fathom this! Is there really a demand from people who are religious enough not to use the elevators on these days, while at the same time send these days on the resort?

As a sabbath observer, I have spent numerous sabbaths on resorts - including WDW - but this specific piece of info blew me away... if it's true.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I have actually seen this in effect.

While I can not vouch for every sabbath, I can vouch for the fact that I personally experienced it on the high holy days....Rosh Hashanah...Yom Kippur...etc.

 

[Dismom+two]

It's amazing what you learn on the Dis boards/podcasts. I honestly never knew of such things. I do find it very interesting though.
I think it's wonderful that Disney thinks of these things.

 

[D1sneyDad]

What is "Sabbath" mode?

 

[dpuck1998]

What is "Sabbath" mode?

Is that when everything goes "black"?? bwwahhhaa...sorry couldn't resist...

 

[jeanigor]

My gram would never dream of being away from home on the high holies, let alone go on vacation to Disney World!

 

[challer]

What is "Sabbath" mode?

On the Sabbath, a Jew is forbidden to use electricity, which includes pushing buttons on elevators. In order to get around this, if an elevator is automatically set to stop on every/certain floors, then it may be allowed on the sabbath (although there are some other factors that may complicate this).

 

[challer]

My gram would never dream of being away from home on the high holies, let alone go on vacation to Disney World!

I agree. This is what shocks me about this whole thing.

I would be greatly surprised if it were like this every Saturday (that would make me change any plans for future trips). It's just that the High Holy Days... are there really enough (any?) sabbath-observant people in Disney World on those days that this would be warranted?

 

[jeanigor]

I agree. This is what shocks me about this whole thing.

I would be greatly surprised if it were like this every Saturday (that would make me change any plans for future trips). It's just that the High Holy Days... are there really enough (any?) sabbath-observant people in Disney World on those days that this would be warranted?

I couldn't see that there would be enough to warrant it. I am more lax than my mother, as she more lax than hers. I am hard pressed to name someone I know that is adherent to all sabbath law. Not necessarily the best commentary on society.

I cannot see as how this would/could be feasible across property. I could see if an observant family were to request it upon checking in. Otherwise the shear logistics would be staggering. Each separate building would need to have a separate shaft operating on a fixed floor operating schedule. The work to benefit ratio is too small.

 

[girli565]

I agree. This is what shocks me about this whole thing.

I would be greatly surprised if it were like this every Saturday (that would make me change any plans for future trips). It's just that the High Holy Days... are there really enough (any?) sabbath-observant people in Disney World on those days that this would be warranted?

I can somewhat agree with the idea that there may not be enough people observing but if it were me and I was the one observing the high holy days, I would very much appreciate the steps disney takes to make them more comfortable.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is not fair to say that there won't be enough people observing to set an elevator to "Sabbath" mode b/c it might be you in some other sort of situation or religious holiday where they accomodate you.

 

[D1sneyDad]

On the Sabbath, a Jew is forbidden to use electricity, which includes pushing buttons on elevators. In order to get around this, if an elevator is automatically set to stop on every/certain floors, then it may be allowed on the sabbath (although there are some other factors that may complicate this).

If this is the case then would they not be allowed to ride in the elevator as it is using electricity to operate thereby the person on the elevator is using electricity. Same would go for any lights, air conditioning, fans, etc.

Not being Jewish I guess I do not understand how they could still use the elevator.

 

[jeanigor]

If this is the case then would they not be allowed to ride in the elevator as it is using electricity to operate thereby the person on the elevator is using electricity. Same would go for any lights, air conditioning, fans, etc.

Not being Jewish I guess I do not understand how they could still use the elevator.

Gram has explained it like this:
She cannot do work, anything that utilizes a flame or physical labor. However, if someone else were to do it (cook, drive), or it was happening before the start of the sabbath and she did not add need to do anything to it, it was permissible to utilize it. She compares it to how some Amish ride in vehicles driven by "the English".

 

[challer]

I can somewhat agree with the idea that there may not be enough people observing but if it were me and I was the one observing the high holy days, I would very much appreciate the steps disney takes to make them more comfortable.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is not fair to say that there won't be enough people observing to set an elevator to "Sabbath" mode b/c it might be you in some other sort of situation or religious holiday where they accomodate you.

I agree 100% - my question is more along the lines of who would spend Yom Kippur in Disney World if being observant is important? I am an observant Jew myself, and I cannot fathom not being at my synagogue on the holiest days of the year. (Remember - if you are an observant Jew at the Contemporary, you are also not taking any transportation to a synagogue.)

I'm sure many observant Jews are in the various resorts on the Sabbath, and I would totally appreciate any accomodation that respects my religion (I already appreciate the kosher meals in the parks). It's just that this happens only on the high holy days, when observant Jews would most likely not be found on vacation.

 

[challer]

I cannot see as how this would/could be feasible across property. I could see if an observant family were to request it upon checking in. Otherwise the shear logistics would be staggering. Each separate building would need to have a separate shaft operating on a fixed floor operating schedule. The work to benefit ratio is too small.

I would never expect Disney to do this in any resort, let alone across property. But apparently they do it at one site for 2-3 days. Just curious to me.

 

[challer]

If this is the case then would they not be allowed to ride in the elevator as it is using electricity to operate thereby the person on the elevator is using electricity. Same would go for any lights, air conditioning, fans, etc.

Not being Jewish I guess I do not understand how they could still use the elevator.

If you are not familiar with Jewish Law, this would seem troubling. It is complicated, but to simplify it a bit:

If something is running automatically (ie escalator), and your getting on & off doesn't affect it in any way, and you don't do anything to control it or change it, it can be allowed.
On these "Sabbath elevators," they stop on each or every other floor and the floor panels are disabled. Therfore, nobody can control it - it runs automatically without any human input to change it.

Again - alot of legalese here.

 

[challer]

However, if someone else were to do it (cook, drive),

Actually, this too is problematic. A sabbath observant Jew would not be allowed to ride a bus on Saturday even though they aren't doing the driving. Also, cooked food on Sabbath by a non-Jew would be forbidden. Typically, one cannot have a non-Jew do things for Jews on the Sabbath.

That is why the Sabbath elevator is so great - otherwise, anyone can go into an elevator with soemone else and just say, "Can you press 6th floor, please?" But alas, this does not fly.

 

[Geef]

I have a question...

Jewish laws are based on the original Mosaic laws, correct?
If that is so... where does the laws on electric come in?
Is it based on work?

 

[ToddyLu]

I have a question...

Jewish laws are based on the original Mosaic laws, correct?
If that is so... where does the laws on electric come in?
Is it based on work?

This is an interesting question--I would like to know the answer, too. Is there some sort of counsel that recommends the new laws??

 

[challer]

Another complicated issue that I will do my best to simplify:

Yes, the laws of Sabbath are based on the Bible, but the Bible is not very specific on this. Based on the Mosaic "Oral" tradition, the "work" that Jews must "rest" from come from the 39 categories of "Work" that were involved in building the Tabernacle in the Sinai desert after leaving Egypt. (Most of the categories are related to farming/agriculture.) From that, multiple subcategories were developed by Rabbinic Jewry over the years. During Temple times there was a Rabbinic "council" called the Sanhedrin, but that was lost after the exile from Israel.

Basically, over time, as new questions arise, Rabbinic Judaism tries to wrestle with these issues based on the original 39 and the subcategories. There is alot of legal analysis here that goes beyond a short post here.

With regard to electricity, it was fairly universally decided that completing an electric circuit would constitute "Boneh," which is one of the 39 and is translated as "building" and is thus forbidden. Contrary to a common misconception, it is not because of the law against starting a fire on the Sabbath, which is another of the 39. Therefore, Jews are forbidden from starting their cars, working on the computer, and... pushing elevator buttons.

I hope I helped. Again, what is forbidden on the Sabbath is an issue that basically requires an understanding of how Jewish Law works, which is extremely complicated.

Just before you say, "The Sabbath is such a restrictive day. What's the point?" There are also Sabbath laws that are not simply "Can't do this" or "Don't do that." Laws such as lighting candles to start the sabbath, blessing over wine, eating festive meals, and the positive commandment to actually rest. The day ends up being a wonderful way for us to slow down the world around us and spend time with family and friends, and dedicate a day to celebrating devotion to G*d. My Sabbath observant family & friends find ourselves frequently saying, "How do people function without the Sabbath?"

 

[checkwriter]

This is a great thread . . . as a Gentile from the deep Midwest, moving to Brooklyn in the 80s was quite an education. I learned that, contrary to accepted real estate norms in many places, the apartments on the lower floors of the nice buildings on Eastern Parkway rented for higher prices than those on the upper floors -- it's easier to climb one or two sets of stairs on the Sabbath than four or five.

Also, I learned that it was not unusual for observant Jews to employ enterprising young Christians to help during the Sabbath -- flipping light switches, turning on the A/C, that sort of thing. Disney setting its elevators to accomodate these religious practices is perhaps a less-expensive version of this. Makes sense to me.