Flag removal

[Doug M]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...nfederate-flag-epcot-down-20150708-story.html

 

[Reddog1134]

I think it's ridiculous since in this situation, it's presented in a historical context.

 

[Doug M]

I think it's ridiculous since in this situation, it's presented in a historical context.

Goes along with another thread and a post about the Bill Cosby bust removal, a poster wondered what could be next. There is a movement to remove presidents from currency, so some day the Hall of Presidents may be missing all the founders because some are offended, and in today's climate, there is nothing worse.

 

[Planogirl]

I think it's silly too but it's the politically correct thing to do right now. The flag is definitely a part of history and removing that flag isn't going to change that history as some seem to think.

 

[tjevans]

But I'm sure there's a Mississippi flag somewhere either in the American Adventure or HoP. It also features the rebel flag (yes, I know that's not it's proper name, but it's the popular name for it).

Disclaimer: I'm a Mississippian

 

[peg110]

Goes along with another thread and a post about the Bill Cosby bust removal, a poster wondered what could be next. There is a movement to remove presidents from currency, so some day the Hall of Presidents may be missing all the founders because some are offended, and in today's climate, there is nothing worse.

I was going to say virtually the same thing.

I get that Disney (and others) don't want to "offend" anyone, but it's because of this that we developed the art of "PC" (Not personal computers either).

I am tired of PC. Lots of things offend me, I just avoid them. I don't force THEM away from me.

 

[umichigan10]

I think we should just replace it with another american flag when it pops up in the show. It won't offend anyone but im sure there'll be a lot of confused faces

 

[umichigan10]

But I'm sure there's a Mississippi flag somewhere either in the American Adventure or HoP. It also features the rebel flag (yes, I know that's not it's proper name, but it's the popular name for it).

Disclaimer: I'm a Mississippian

I could be wrong but I think the Florida flag has features from the confederate flag in it as well. Guess Disney should start going around on a removal spree across their property

 

[Fauntleroy]

Somewhat disappointing (had at least 4 ancestors in the Confederate Army- including 2 in Lee's Army of Northern Virginia)- but understandable IMHO. Ideally- since there IS a historical context to the Epcot usage- I would prefer to see Disney (and the National Park Service at CW battlefields, graves on Confederate Memorial Day, etc.) change to using the "First National Flag" (i.e. "Stars and Bars") to represent the Confederate period as opposed to just willfully ignoring it:

To best of my knowledge this flag has NOT traditionally been a favorite of the KKK/white supremacists, etc. and just generally has a more "benign" rep IMHO given its closeness to the "Stars and Stripes"- and as it was a political/national flag as opposed to a battle flag. Maybe that's something that can happen over time (Confederate graves at our local historic Church have just made this exact change)...

 

[Reddog1134]

I think it's silly too but it's the politically correct thing to do right now. The flag is definitely a part of history and removing that flag isn't going to change that history as some seem to think.

It doesn't change history but it's a step towards ignoring it.

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[bellyrunnersix]

I could be wrong but I think the Florida flag has features from the confederate flag in it as well.

Don't fall for the current flag hysteria. Just because a flag has a saltire doesn't mean it has Confederate ties. The current flag has little to do with Florida's time in the Confederacy. While the Florida flag (and Alabama flag) may have been adopted by ex-rebels with pro-rebel sentiments, the Cross of Burgundy/St. Andrew's cross are symbols predating the US Civil war and speak to the historical regimes that owned both areas.

Unless you absolutely find mild Christian symbolism or pre-US colonial powers offensive (oh boy that'd open another can of worms), neither flag should be included in this conversation.

 

[umichigan10]

Don't fall for the current flag hysteria. Just because a flag has a saltire doesn't mean it has Confederate ties. The current flag has little to do with Florida's time in the Confederacy. While the Florida flag (and Alabama flag) may have been adopted by ex-rebels with pro-rebel sentiments, the Cross of Burgundy/St. Andrew's cross are symbols predating the US Civil war and speak to the historical regimes that owned both areas.

Unless you absolutely find mild Christian symbolism or pre-US colonial powers offensive (oh boy that'd open another can of worms), neither flag should be included in this conversation.

Oh believe me I think this whole flag foolishness is ridiculous. I just always thought that's what the flag was based off

 

[bellyrunnersix]

Oh believe me I think this whole flag foolishness is ridiculous. I just always thought that's what the flag was based off

Yeah I picked up on that, just clarifying the situation.

I wonder if they're considering removing the actual portion of the show about the Civil War next. I wouldn't put it past them at this point. They've removed less offensive things.

 

[Dznefreek]

I could be wrong but I think the Florida flag has features from the confederate flag in it as well. Guess Disney should start going around on a removal spree across their property

It is based on the Spanish flag . . . . . .
The current design of Florida's state flag was adopted in 1900. In that year, Florida voters ratified a constitutional amendment based on an 1899 joint resolution of the state legislature to add diagonal red bars, in the form of a St. Andrew's cross, to the flag.

 

[DrBanner]

There is no point in fighting it government has an agenda in mind and they will do what they have to do to rewrite the past.. If you dig deep enough you can find that every race was at one time some sort of slave. But no one wants to actually tell the real stories of history just what they want people to hear. Until people start doing their own research on history this will be an ongoing battle for ages.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Eh, not something I agree with but also not anything I particularly care about either. Other than vexillologists (fun with flags!), I doubt anyone else would even know it was gone were it not for being told.

 

[Dean Marino]

I think it's ridiculous since in this situation, it's presented in a historical context.

Yes, I hear you. IF the location is intended to reflect history? This would be an attempt to rewrite history.

Now - having said that.... Disney is in the business of entertainment. Someone decided that there MIGHT be paying guests offended by this flag... so a business decision was made to remove it, in order to avoid any possible offense to any guest.

Having said THAT - things get ugly. In WWII, the United States operated internment camps for Americans of Japanese Ancestry. I would submit that a number of Americans of Japanese Ancestry go to WDW. That flag should also be removed, based on the same reasoning.

 

[dinolounger]

I think it's ridiculous since in this situation, it's presented in a historical context.

It is ridiculous, but the zealous, fanatical cultural cleansing agenda has nothing to do with common sense or reason and intentionally ignores historical context.
It is all about taking maximum advantage of what is currently in vogue with the PC police. And the the logic of those demanding that the Confederate (read: battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) flag be erased from public life will inexorably lead them to then demand the same of the American flag (as well as, for that matter, all traditional American symbols).

I know, you are thinking "that is absolutely crazy." But is it, particularly to the grievance crowd? Don't kid yourself:

• They will start telling us that the Stars and Stripes flew over the institution of slavery for 88 years —84 years longer than did the "Confederate" flag.
• They will start telling us it was under the banner of the American flag that American Indian tribes were decimated and their lands confiscated.
• They will start telling us that it was under the American flag that Japanese-Americans were unjustly interned during WWII.
• And when they are done telling us all that, they will say it is the American flag that symbolizes oppression of all sorts—centuries of slavery, racism, genocide, unrelenting imperialism, yada yada yada.

The cultural cleansers will never stop. Unless we remember a classic quote from Edmund Burke (one which the cowardly management at Disney should have remembered):

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

 

[Doug M]

Well said!

 

[umichigan10]

Yeah I picked up on that, just clarifying the situation.

I wonder if they're considering removing the actual portion of the show about the Civil War next. I wouldn't put it past them at this point. They've removed less offensive things.

To be honest I thought at first that's what they did. In which case I would be a lot more upset because that's blatant censorship. I'm a history nerd with alot of interest in the civil war and the fact people are trying to almost ignore and blur out one of the darkest hours in our nations history is disturbing