February direct sales but also debate about trusts

[Sandisw]

But cash guests is still not the cost model for DVC. DVC makes 25 times the money on a room that a cash guest pays, they just make it all up front. It never felt like they should be satisfied with poor sales. Aulani happened that way but a bunch of people got fired over Aulani and they have resigned themselves to the cash for that. If they genuinely PLANNED for the cabins to be a slow sell, that's a legit change in business model.

Maybe they have planned for a slow sell until all get built? Because of being individual units, they didn’t have to all ready to go to open them for occupancy..

Unlike Poly tower which has to be completely done by opening day. Once all 300 plus cabins are new, maybe the incentives will get better?

 

[Chili327]

It will still be around a charming lake next to EPCOT (and very close to DHS)….so not everything.

I’m just saying that the Town Center concept is very popular and Boardwalk was a very early attempt at the concept; we’ve learned a lot about what makes those properties work in the 30 years since and Crescent Lake’s current setup doesn’t really allow for it. They did a much better job of the same idea with GCH integration into / separation from DTD at Disneyland (but it could be further improved upon still).

And being required to go outside to get food in a part of the country where it rains 150 days per year seems nuts to me.

Yea, i get it, & things can always be improved. Too often things that are successful get trashed to increase profit, & then they wonder why it doesn't pay off... or even if it does pay off, many people aren't happy with the new/final product.

Thankfully they can't ruin "location" but I've only been there once (in Jan/Feb) where the weather was amazing, so I wanted to be outside hanging on the Boardwalk, but I can imagine if it is hot & humid or pouring rain its not quite as nice.

Plus I might be one that sometimes doesn't like change, especially for something I've only just discovered... that I love. lol

 

[CastAStone]

Plus I might be one that sometimes doesn't like change, especially for something I've only just discovered... that I love. lol

The good news for you is that I’m sure Disney is taking my opinion into account exactly 0%.

 

[Brian Noble]

that's a legit change in business model.

In part, yes, but not in total. The other part of the business model is "move cash inventory to DVC inventory to hedge risk." This part is still going to happen, it will just take longer.

 

[Massachusetts]

I've always thought that the Cabins may be showing a different plan for DVC. Not typical at all,. but these cabins have always been sold out via cash sales. Perhaps DVC knows that sales are going to be ****, but is willing to take the cash sales. I mean, it's the antithesis of what DVC is about (make your money up front) but maybe that's what they are thinking here.

It's early, but I think it's no shock that this will not sell well to existing members - the dues alone would turn most members away. We really have to see next months data.

As far the Cabins go they are vastly different from most other DVC efforts. With a development like the Poly Tower and most others they are either out tens (hundreds?) of millions cash or paying debt service throughout construction at least until presales start. With the Cabins Disney is able to bring small chunks of the overall project online (sell or rent) throughout the build out. I can't imagine the per unit cost of the new cabins is much beyond $200-$250K for Disney.

 

[skier_pete]

As far the Cabins go they are vastly different from most other DVC efforts. With a development like the Poly Tower and most others they are either out tens (hundreds?) of millions cash or paying debt service throughout construction at least until presales start. With the Cabins Disney is able to bring small chunks of the overall project online (sell or rent) throughout the build out. I can't imagine the per unit cost of the new cabins is much beyond $200-$250K for Disney.

An honestly that number is probably the high end when you are making 350 identical ones.

 

[mkatsy]

Manufactured homes are not real property unless they go through through very specific process in order to be deemed fixed real estate. It is very different than painting some walls and switching out furniture.

not in Florida. All you need is the title to the manufactured home (in your name) & the deed to the land you are attaching it to (in your name) ~or~ a 30-year lease hold on the land. The title is retired, and a deed is issued. https://floridarevenue.com/property/Documents/dr402.pdf

 

[Sandisw]

not in Florida. All you need is the title to the manufactured home (in your name) & the deed to the land you are attaching it to (in your name) ~or~ a 30-year lease hold on the land. The title is retired, and a deed is issued. https://floridarevenue.com/property/Documents/dr402.pdf

Which I think this supports that DVD did not have to use the trust model to sell, but chose to because they may be moving that way in the future.

 

[mkatsy]

Which I think this supports that DVD did not have to use the trust model to sell, but chose to because they may be moving that way in the future.

Absolutely! Modular homes (partially constructed in factories, and assembled on-site) when attached to a permanent foundation are automatically titled as real property and are eligible for mortgages as long as you own the land or have a 30 year lease hold. The CFW are little Japanese prefab homes.

 

[hockeydad21]

not in Florida. All you need is the title to the manufactured home (in your name) & the deed to the land you are attaching it to (in your name) ~or~ a 30-year lease hold on the land. The title is retired, and a deed is issued. https://floridarevenue.com/property/Documents/dr402.pdf

Which I think this supports that DVD did not have to use the trust model to sell, but chose to because they may be moving that way in the future.

Absolutely! Modular homes (partially constructed in factories, and assembled on-site) when attached to a permanent foundation are automatically titled as real property and are eligible for mortgages as long as you own the land or have a 30 year lease hold. The CFW are little Japanese prefab homes.

while what y'all are saying is true, it still doesn’t apply because DVD plans to replace these “modular homes” (cabins) in the next 25ish years with brand new “modular homes”….hence the trust instead of a deed. If they went the deed route, then they’d legally be forced to refurbish the same cabins being installed this spring/summer for the next 50 years.

 

[mkatsy]

while what y'all are saying is true, it still doesn’t apply because DVD plans to replace these “modular homes” (cabins) in the next 25ish years with brand new “modular homes”….hence the trust instead of a deed. If they went the deed route, then they’d legally be forced to refurbish the same cabins being installed this spring/summer for the next 50 years.

There is a mechanism in Florida to remove a mobile home from a deed and retitle it back to personal property.

 

[Sandisw]

while what y'all are saying is true, it still doesn’t apply because DVD plans to replace these “modular homes” (cabins) in the next 25ish years with brand new “modular homes”….hence the trust instead of a deed. If they went the deed route, then they’d legally be forced to refurbish the same cabins being installed this spring/summer for the next 50 years.

I have talked to several DVC people…phone and in person and I have been told every time that this was a choice to go this route. It’s been consistent message that the trust was not required to sell the cabins.

The implication was that this move is indeed something that will shift DVC in the future.

So, this project made the best sense for them to begin a potential change to selling new resorts via a RTU plan vs the old way of leasehold.

 

[hockeydad21]

I have talked to several DVC people…phone and in person and I have been told every time that this was a choice to go this route. It’s been consistent message that the trust was not required to sell the cabins.

So, have you talked directly to them and been told differently?

Call me crazy, but didn't these same DVC sources lead you down the path of thinking the Poly tower was to be an entirely new association with resale restrictions in order fall in line with RIV and VDH? Being part of the existing PVB association was unfathomable to you up until contractor permits were filed a month ago under PVB.

And no, I haven't reached out to anyone at Disney or DVC regarding Poly tower, cabins, or future trust properties. Always rely on my own research, understanding of legal language, and Disney's strategic business objectives.

 

[Sandisw]

Call me crazy, but didn't these same DVC sources lead you down the path of thinking the Poly tower was to be an entirely new association with resale restrictions in order fall in line with RIV and VDH? Being part of the existing PVB association was unfathomable to you up until contractor permits were filed a month ago under PVB.

And no, I haven't reached out to anyone at Disney or DVC regarding Poly tower, cabins, or future trust properties. Always rely on my own research, understanding of legal language, and Disney's strategic business objectives.

I never discussed with anyone the Poly tower association, other than the normal sources who always said they had no idea and could not speculate,

All my comments, as I alway posted, were my opinions, based on what I felt was the facts and info out there, including some of our posters here who have extensive knowledge…who made similar assumptions.

And, I absolutely switched gears to leaning same after December, once I got them to finally admit it was actually stated…took me several emails to get them to confirm that statement.

But also said that the whole wishy washy behavior lately…some restrictions, some not,,,and the new trust idea that showed up made me lose some confidence in them. .

So, you are correct that I would not be 100% convinced until I saw it confirmed officially in documents that proved it, simply because DVD does what it wants and I put nothing past them, which included changing their minds if it suited them.

I am still not sure we won’t see some surprises in the program in the next few years.

But, to get back to my comment, these people that I have asked have been at the parks, in the DVC lounge, and on the phone. None are secret sources, and I never claimed them to be. I simply am someone who asks a lot of questions because I like to know about how things are moving with the product that I own.
I consistently was told that this trust idea was not new and that they simply decided to sell the cabins this way, but that right now, in practice, it wasn’t a big deal because it will function the same way.

The survey that the sent out to owners even hinted it was something being talked about, and all of sudden, it happens.

So, I go back to my comments that from all that I have read and info I gathered, including the new multi site and CFW POS language, I feel confident that we will see this trust be a move in thr future…and of course, I do believe the job posting of DVC 2.0 meant something.

Could I end up wrong about the trust? Sure. Plenty of us felt that there were lots of strong reasons Poly would be a new association, and quite honestly, am still surprised they made the move they did. It makes no logical sense to me. I

As you said, going the trust route for them was a better move and my guess is this project made a good starting point for a change in practice. And, we won’t know that until we see future projects announced and left out.

 

[mkatsy]

Spent a bit of time today swept up in the DAS outrage. DVC definitely does not have a monopoly on Disney drama somewhere along the way, I did come across this interesting FB post.

 

[mkatsy]

Fort wilderness is getting some love. A brand new building. The permit doesn’t indicate the intended use.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Fort wilderness is getting some love. A brand new building. The permit doesn’t indicate the intended use.

Lift station

Could this be a new skyliner connection??

 

[MyDogTink]

Not sure this is the right spot for this comment. Does DVC seem like Molly Mix Up right now? Riviera with restrictions, cabins in a newly created trust and then Poly Tower without restrictions and not in a trust.

 

[mkatsy]

Lift station

Could this be a new skyliner connection??

That would be fun! but in Florida a lift station is for sewage

 

[Sandisw]

Not sure this is the right spot for this comment. Does DVC seem like Molly Mix Up right now? Riviera with restrictions, cabins in a newly created trust and then Poly Tower without restrictions and not in a trust.

Certainly seems that way…it’s why I am still in shock that the tower will come out without them…though I still have a small nagging feeling that something will be a surprise with it!

I did just get a hard copy of the CFW POS and can’t wait to read it to see if there are any cool tidbits in there that we don’t know!