Faculty-Student Relationships

[smartestnumber5]

Last night GF and I were talking about college/university policies about faculty-student sexual relationships. Some colleges/universities (like GF's undergrad university) explicitly prohibit such relationships between any faculty member and any undergraduate student.

Others (like my undergrad college) discourage them, but don't prohibit them; they just require that a faculty member who has a supervisory/evaluative role over a student they're involved with report it to the school so that someone else can take over that role.

And I know going back 30 years or so my own college apparently had no policy at all as many of the female students of the 70s ended up marrying their professors (professors who definitely did have supervisory roles over them).

What kind of policy do you think is best? I tend to favor the 2nd one while GF supports the 1st.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I was an accounting undergrad -- not a lot of temptation in 50-something year old male CPA/PhD's

 

[JulielovesDisney]

I'm more for the 1st one, but that's also because when I picture college professors, I picture old men with graying hair and a pipe in their mouth. lol. As you might be able to tell, I'm not in college yet. But I think teachers and student shouldn't have a relationship like that, just a friendship or something.

 

[java]

Accounting here too. But my business law prof. hubba hubba.....
Oh so obviously I am for number 2

 

[helenabear]

I like the 2nd option best. Then again I went to a huge school and there were a lot of hotties on staff when I was there

 

[OK!]

Accounting here too. But my business law prof. hubba hubba.....
Oh so obviously I am for number 2

Ditto that for the Data Structures II prof I'm going to have in the fall. Ding dong!

 

[Boston Tea Party]

My sister-in-law ran off to Michigan with her English professor. Not sure what the "official" policy was though...

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

When DH and I split up (while we were dating) in college, I dated a professor for a couple of months (he was in his 30's). Lots of girls gushed over him; little did they know that he was wacko under those good looks, and made me appreciate my nice normal boyfriend/now DH. I met him when I worked for the chairman of his department. The chairman knew, but I'm not sure what any policies were. We didn't go flaunting it, but we were seen at the mall by other students, so other people knew too. After breaking up, I ended up having him for a teacher, which was uncomfortable at times.

I vote for #2. I think it's bound to happen, so they might as well have a policy that acknowledges the situation and deals with it, rather than ignore it and then have a huge issue (firing the professor and/or dismissing the student?).

 

[disykat]

I think there should be a definite rule against it. I taught in an academic remediation program at a community college when I was in my early 20's. Many of my students were my own age and I got asked out fairly regularly. Although there was no rule in place, it was very easy to give them a standard NO because I was their instructor.

I think it's creepy and downright predatory on the part of the instructor. If there's really a connection, there's no reason you can't wait until you are no longer their teacher to take any action on it.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I'm more for the 1st one, but that's also because when I picture college professors, I picture old men with graying hair and a pipe in their mouth. lol. As you might be able to tell, I'm not in college yet. But I think teachers and student shouldn't have a relationship like that, just a friendship or something.

Yeah even though GF and I disagree on the policies, we both agree that it's a bad idea and kind of creepy given the power differences. I taught as a graduate assistant last year and at that time I was 23 and some of my senior students were probably 21 or 22. But still I just couldn't imagine thinking of any of them in that way even with such a small age difference. (Although I did feel a bit differently about my own professors when I was an undergrad .)

Of course, GF and I did have a big laugh during our conversation though when we realized that she and I might be in danger of violating one of these faculty-student relations policies! Next semester I'm going to be an adjunct lecturer at the university she is attending to get a 2nd bachelors (but GF will never take a class in the department I'll be working in). We realized, "Wait, if X University has a policy that bans all such relationships outright, you and I will be in violation of it!" That realization made GF rethink her position kind of quickly --she said to me "but I'm 6 years older than you!"

Luckily the university in question doesn't have an outright ban. I wonder what happens is situations like this, though, (where there is a pre-existing relationship between two people that began before they were faculty-student) at schools that do have outright bans?

 

[Boston Tea Party]

I think it's creepy and downright predatory on the part of the instructor. If there's really a connection, there's no reason you can't wait until you are no longer their teacher to take any action on it.

I agree.

 

[Soubrette]

I vote for the 2nd, with big support for disclosure to a supervisior.

Unofficially, of course, I think it's not such a great idea for a professor to get involved with an undergrad because it's a huge shot to their credibility; you need to be able to maintain as least an "aura" of authority. It's a little better if it's a graduate student, and even better if they're from different departments.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think there are several factors that come into play.

Are we talking about a young undergrad and a considerably older professor? Or are we talking about a "returning to school" adult who may be the same age or close to the same age, as the professor? Does the professor have their love interest in class or have any sort of "sway" over the person, where the professor's position could be used in a "well, if you do 'X', I can give you a better grade" capacity?

I do agree that if the professor has any sort of influence over the student's academic life, then other arrangements need to be made...transfer the student out of the class, wait till the semester is over, change the student's advisor...depending on the circumstances.

This is, in many ways, similar to a romance at work. For the professor, it is, essentially, a romance at work. There are a lot of possible ramifications to be considered. It would be nice if everyone could be "adult" about their relationships, especially if the relationship ends, but we all know human nature is sometimes not so "adult". Particularly in the case of the "much younger student/much older professor" scenario. Youth is impulsive. An indiscretion can really cause a lot of grief.

 

[Crankyshank]

I think #2. With so many older students, as well as graduate students, it's pretty silly to ban faculty/student relationships entirely. Also at the U I work at, Ph.D's are considered faculty. Imagine being a grad student working in a lab with a post doc, falling in love, and not being able to date because of your job classifications?

I also think out right banning it leads to the whole forbidden fruit temptation thing

 

[WDWVillain]

I think it depends on the situation! I was in college later in life and my professor is only 8 years difference. I never went out with him, BUT IF he were the type to do such a thing,,,,,we would be together today!
thou we do hang around and attend parties etc. I am in my 40's~ he his 50's at that point I really do not think It should make a difference, as long as it is left out of the classroom.

 

[Simba's Mom]

OMG, as a former teacher, I just have to respond because this hits my nerve. The fact that there even HAS to be any kind of policy is so sad. I mean, as a teacher, as soon as you walked into the classroom and saw "students" that put them into a whole separate category that made you not think of them as "desirable" or whatever. It's sort of like an OB-GYN who sees naked women all day. My first teaching job was as an engineering teacher-all my students were male and I was a young, 20-something, single female. Sure, some of my students were good-looking, but it just didn't dawn on me to think of them "that" way. What a sad commentary on modern-day society that now we need to have policies about such things.

 

[GEM]

OMG, as a former teacher, I just have to respond because this hits my nerve. The fact that there even HAS to be any kind of policy is so sad. I mean, as a teacher, as soon as you walked into the classroom and saw "students" that put them into a whole separate category that made you not think of them as "desirable" or whatever. It's sort of like an OB-GYN who sees naked women all day. My first teaching job was as an engineering teacher-all my students were male and I was a young, 20-something, single female. Sure, some of my students were good-looking, but it just didn't dawn on me to think of them "that" way. What a sad commentary on modern-day society that now we need to have policies about such things.

You do understand we'r e talking about university faculty, right? I would agree with you if we were talking about high school English teachers dating their 16 year old students, but this is a totally separate issue. I don't see how affairs between university students and their professors is any kind of a commentary on modern society, it's something that's gone on since the first days of universities, I would imagine.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I don't see how affairs between university students and their professors is any kind of a commentary on modern society, it's something that's gone on since the first days of universities, I would imagine.

I agree. It was quite amazing to me when I talked to women who attended my undergrad college in the 1970s. They talked about 18 and 19 year old freshman dating professors (even ones who they were taking classes from at the time) as if it were a completely common and non-controversial thing to do. It is certainly isn't that common or non-controversial anymore.

I think attitudes toward professor-student (and even professor-graduate student) relationships have changed a lot since the 60s and 70s as more and more women have entered academia and the feminist movement has brought the issues of sexual harassment and how power differentials affect consent to light.

So really I think the fact that we have these policies demonstrates one way in which our society has progressed in the last 30-40 years.

 

[Simba's Mom]

You do understand we'r e talking about university faculty, right? I would agree with you if we were talking about high school English teachers dating their 16 year old students, but this is a totally separate issue. I don't see how affairs between university students and their professors is any kind of a commentary on modern society, it's something that's gone on since the first days of universities, I would imagine.

Yes, I knew it was university faculty, and that's what I was referring to in my example. I was teaching Industrial Engineering, and I was the only female in the classroom. And just cause it's gone on for years doesn't make it right, IMO. I know it happens, and in college lots of people think it's right. Just call me an old fuddy-duddy I guess, but I never thought it was right, even during the 12 years I taught college.

 

[sweetspicy]

I think that even if there was a rule against it, it would still happen. It's the same as workplace dating--I've worked at places where it was forbidden for a manager and a subordinate to date, but it still happened all the time.