'Expansion' is the Wrong Term for What's Happening at HS

[Delirium]

I can't help to think that we are being misled about all of this 'expansion' talk at Hollywood Studios. Don't get me wrong, the proposed changes are exciting. But, the reality is, it is in no way, shape, or form, an expansion. In fact, if we are to believe what we are hearing, it's quite possible that there will actually be a net attraction loss at Hollywood Studios when this is all over.

Attractions that have already closed at HS

• Art of Animation / Animation Academy
• Jack Sparrow
• Backlot Tour
• American Idol

Attractions at risk because of 'expansion' (maybe not, all, but most certainly some)

• One Man's Dream (totally ridiculous if they don't find a home for this)
• Voyage of Little Mermaid
• Indiana Jones OR LMA & Muppets
• HISTK Playground

Are the new lands going to have a combined 7-8 new attractions to make up for the ones that are lost, let alone be considered an 'expansion'? I highly doubt it. My understanding is that Toy Story Land is getting 2 new attractions (2.5 if you count the extra TSM track). The talk is that Star Wars land will only add 2-3 attractions as well. By my count, we're headed to a net loss in the number of attractions. Sure, they may be higher quality, but a net loss nonetheless.

And, you can't count 'new' restaurants and shopping into the mix because we all know that they will simply re-theme the ones that are already there.

Bottom line, this is a park refurb, not an expansion. It is not the same as Avatarland at AK, which will actually add to the number of things to do in the park. This just changes what you do at HS, not how much you can do.

I foresee fewer, more popular, attractions, resulting in extreme crowds in a park that does not have the ability to disperse the crowds as well as MK or Epcot. Get ready for the backlash when reality hits with people that are super-excited about this now.

 

[soniam]

From the point of view of land area, I believe it is an expansion. Rumors have it that areas that are currently backstage will become onstage, effectively increasing the area for visitors.

Looking at it from a number of rides point of view is not really the way to look at it. Diagon Alley has one attraction, Gringott's; however, people, including myself, can spend hours, if not all day, there. It's not always about the number of attractions. There is also a quality factor. I think all of the SW attractions will be much more entertaining than what they replaced. If you don't do an attraction because it's bad or you don't like it, that attraction may as well not be in the park. By putting in attractions that people want to see, Disney is increasing the amount of time people will spend in the park and the amount of pleasure they will derive from that time. I also think the new Toy Story rides will appeal to a younger segment that has been sort of ignored in that park before. Ask yourself, what attraction was removed that you think had more attendance than any new attraction that they will be adding? I am still disappointed to see some things go away, but honestly, those were low attendance attractions for the most part. Plus, there are rumors that not everything was announced. Also, things like Pandora and Froway will draw some crowds from DHS.

 

[Delirium]

Don't understimate the ability of shows like Indiana Jones and LMA to disperse crowds, especially during the peak hours in the middle of the day. Re-instating an afternoon parade could help with that to some degree, but I would be surprised if the number of total guests the park can comfortably handle will be increased.

 

[larryz]

This should have been the fifth gate.

They're letting the bean counters run the show again, led by the Chief Weatherman in Charge...

 

[mom2rtk]

This should have been the fifth gate.

They're letting the bean counters run the show again, led by the Chief Weatherman in Charge...

But what would have happened to attendance at DHS and Epcot if they opened a 5th gate? It's entirely possible they would have just cannibalized that business while adding all the overhead of staffing a new park.

Of course, if they had kept those parks up through the years, they could have been able to withstand it. As they are now? Not likely.

 

[bcrook]

This should have been the fifth gate.

They're letting the bean counters run the show again, led by the Chief Weatherman in Charge...

Ain't that the truth!

 

[bcrook]

But what would have happened to attendance at DHS and Epcot if they opened a 5th gate? It's entirely possible they would have just cannibalized that business while adding all the overhead of staffing a new park.

Of course, if they had kept those parks up through the years, they could have been able to withstand it. As they are now? Not likely.

Ahhh, and then there is that. And that is the reason they can't have a 5th gate. BUT, they could fix that right now if they really wanted to. I think Epcot will be fine for a long, long time with Festivals. But they could easily throw it a bone and refurb the Imagination pavilion.

 

[bcrook]

I can't help to think that we are being misled about all of this 'expansion' talk at Hollywood Studios. Don't get me wrong, the proposed changes are exciting. But, the reality is, it is in no way, shape, or form, an expansion. In fact, if we are to believe what we are hearing, it's quite possible that there will actually be a net attraction loss at Hollywood Studios when this is all over.

Attractions that have already closed at HS

• Art of Animation / Animation Academy
• Jack Sparrow
• Backlot Tour
• American Idol

Attractions at risk because of 'expansion' (maybe not, all, but most certainly some)

• One Man's Dream (totally ridiculous if they don't find a home for this)
• Voyage of Little Mermaid
• Indiana Jones OR LMA & Muppets
• HISTK Playground

Are the new lands going to have a combined 7-8 new attractions to make up for the ones that are lost, let alone be considered an 'expansion'? I highly doubt it. My understanding is that Toy Story Land is getting 2 new attractions (2.5 if you count the extra TSM track). The talk is that Star Wars land will only add 2-3 attractions as well. By my count, we're headed to a net loss in the number of attractions. Sure, they may be higher quality, but a net loss nonetheless.

And, you can't count 'new' restaurants and shopping into the mix because we all know that they will simply re-theme the ones that are already there.

Bottom line, this is a park refurb, not an expansion. It is not the same as Avatarland at AK, which will actually add to the number of things to do in the park. This just changes what you do at HS, not how much you can do.

I foresee fewer, more popular, attractions, resulting in extreme crowds in a park that does not have the ability to disperse the crowds as well as MK or Epcot. Get ready for the backlash when reality hits with people that are super-excited about this now.

I agree with your use of the word Refurb and not expansion. I don't think the Pixar Land is an expansion at all, they are just moving into the Animation Studios space that was part of the original park. As for Star Wars Land, they say it is a 14 acre expansion, but that isn't true if the 14 acres includes things like Echo Lake, Star Tours and the buildings that will house the Jedi Academy. If Star Wars Land goes in the back of the park it will devour the LMA, Catastrophe Canyon, Streets of America and HISTHK playground.

I would guess most of the "expansion" will be in the form of parking structures and changes to infrastructure.

The only part I am not sure about is how well the three major attractions will absorb the crowds.

For example: If the Soarin type ride can handle 17,000 people a day like its counterpart in Epcot, the coaster is equal to Everest?... 16,000, and the other Mission Space type ride has slots like its counterpart: 17,000, plus another 5,000 for TSMM, then will that be enough to absorb the loss of the LMA (3000), Indy (10,000), Animation Academy (???), Streets of America (???),Little Mermaid (???) Muppets (6000) Backlot Tour (6000), and the Misc other things?

But, It looks like a net gain in ride capacity, and as others have said, if the theming is great - this will make up for the loss of Streets of America. But how much will attendance go up? And how long will those queues be? What will be left for those booking online at the 30 day mark in the FP+ world?

Would it be comparable to MK?

Slinky Dog - Mine Train
Alien Spinners - Peter Pan
Star Wars Soarin - Splash
Millennium Falcon - Big Thunder
Star Tours - Pirates
Great Movie Ride - HM
RnRC - Space Mountain
Tower of Terror - Big Thunder
Beauty and the Beast/Frozen Sing A Long - Jungle Cruise, Dumbo, Winnie the Pooh, Tea cups, Astro Orbiter, Buzz Lightyear, Stinky Cars, Hall of Presidents, Treehouse, Aladdin, Monsters Inc, People Mover, Philharmagic, Tom Sawyer and Steamboat, Country Bears, CoP, Barnstormer, Little Mermaid, Enchanted Tales, Rapunzel Bathroom, and Two Parades.

That looks like a No!

The Hollywood Adventure attendance surely won't swell to the MK levels, so that will help a little. It might be difficult to get FPs, but there will be more things to fill those tiers.

 

[epcotty]

Yeah some of the things that have closed/could close get/got big crowds, we haven't been there since August last year but I've read lines are already getting worse due to less attractions

 

[epcotty]

Ahhh, and then there is that. And that is the reason they can't have a 5th gate. BUT, they could fix that right now if they really wanted to. I think Epcot will be fine for a long, long time with Festivals. But they could easily throw it a bone and refurb the Imagination pavilion.

Yes, they should rename it the "lack of imagination" pavilion, with its lack of updates and "hey let's put in the old show again and keep running that indefinitely"

 

[pilferk]

Ahhh, and then there is that. And that is the reason they can't have a 5th gate. BUT, they could fix that right now if they really wanted to. I think Epcot will be fine for a long, long time with Festivals. But they could easily throw it a bone and refurb the Imagination pavilion.

I would take, for example, one half of Innoventions and install the "One Man's Dream" attraction there, with MASSIVE expansion. This should be the Orlando version of the Disney Family Museum, with some Disney Archives mixed in for good measure.

Then, some further smaller refurbs/updates around Futureworld (Ellens' Energy Adventure badly needs an update, which you could do without much change to the actual show scenes...the Horizen's pad NEEDS to be used for something useful, and Imagination needs to be reworked with a new 3-d movie installed) and Epcot would be set, IMHO. Sounds like a lot, but compared to what DHS is costing, it would be a drop in the bucket.

 

[pilferk]

I agree, the verbage isn't quite right. I think it would be more appropriate to say this is the first step to "reimagining" DHS (the term they used for DCA).

But I don't think they want to be that bold quite yet. This is what they're going to commit to, and, in PR speak, they're not going to call it a "refurb".

 

[Goddesstree]

Asking mods to move this to news, as there is no park 'strategy' in any of this.

 

[wilkeliza]

I think people are misinterpreting some of the announcement. The 2 rides mentioned in the announcement were billed as 2 rides no other Disney park has. I have a feeling we will see some of the Tokyo rides come over as filler for the space. I would bet Army Men jumpers and RC racer will be apart of this.

For Star Wars we know 0 beyond the cantina, SW Jedi training, Millenium a Falcon rides, and the theming of the area. It is incredibly hard to tell what is what from the release photos and during the panel they kept a lot to the chests about what may or may not be there. I think they learned from New Fantasyland only announce what you aren't going to even consider scraping.

 

[bcrook]

It helps me plan out my trips for the next few years.

Plus, I just saw that LMA is not available for FP+ after September 27. It's not on the refurb list. That could be the end of that. I am trying to decide if I should spend time there in October or not for my group. Personally I'm going in just to accomplish a four park challenge.

We do have to plan 24 months out, at least I do. I have to figure out how to use my DVC investment the best way. Part of that is trying to guess what Disney is doing, since they don't tell anybody anything. These types of threads are very useful.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that the Star Wars area might be an expansion at least partially. The number of attractions might decrease but the net size may increase.

I like the idea of calling this a re-imagining.

 

[bcrook]

I think people are misinterpreting some of the announcement. The 2 rides mentioned in the announcement were billed as 2 rides no other Disney park has. I have a feeling we will see some of the Tokyo rides come over as filler for the space. I would bet Army Men jumpers and RC racer will be apart of this.

For Star Wars we know 0 beyond the cantina, SW Jedi training, Millenium a Falcon rides, and the theming of the area. It is incredibly hard to tell what is what from the release photos and during the panel they kept a lot to the chests about what may or may not be there. I think they learned from New Fantasyland only announce what you aren't going to even consider scraping.

I think this may be overly optimistic. I would expect cuts rather than surprises.

What may happen though if they take away the Indy Stunt Show and build there, is something new back by catastrophe canyon as a fill in.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

There really is no question the land area will grow.

However rigth now.all they have announced is the e ticket attractions. Little regarding other shows, rides or attractions.

They made a.point of saying they were not going to releases much more about Star Wars as some of the other new attractions are from the new movies .

So I would say there is going to be.a.over all.expension of everything and we will see that when more details.are.released?

AKK

 

[larryz]

I think this may be overly optimistic. I would expect cuts rather than surprises.

What may happen though if they take away the Indy Stunt Show and build there, is something new back by catastrophe canyon as a fill in.

If you pull up the Google Earth view, it becomes apparent that the whole southern boundary can be pushed as far as the drainage canal, and all they'd have to do to accommodate that is move the inbound traffic to the parking lot just a bit further south.

 

[bcrook]

If you pull up the Google Earth view, it becomes apparent that the whole southern boundary can be pushed as far as the drainage canal, and all they'd have to do to accommodate that is move the inbound traffic to the parking lot just a bit further south.
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Well if they did that, that would be a substantial addition. Especially if this included new shops, dining and experiences. Then the Star Tours, Jedi Academy and possibly quick service would be in addition to the 14 acres.

If the entire park is 135 acres, how many acres do you think is inside that yellow line - 40 or so? 14 acres wouldn't take much of that space.