Employees getting paid by DCL

[pal2pluto]

I agree w/Nancy, and also, in many of the countries, the american dollar goes much farther than local salaries. I just can't help but think that if the pay/tips were so terrible, there wouldn't be employees who keep signing on over and over again.

All the more reason for us to tip them properly. They give great service and should be rewarded accordingly.

 

[randytenn]

I heard the same thing about taxes from a couple of the theater cast. They all get Equity wages, and the foreign actors pay no taxes, so they clean up. The American actors pay taxes, and don't make as much.

Yeah, it's hard work, but amazingly, they seem to enjoy it. If not, they wouldn't keep signing up for additional contracts.

 

[TeamMom011]

When we last cruised -a few years longer ago than I like to think- we were on NCL. We got to know our server well enough that while in port in Jamaica he tracked us down with his wife and 2 kids in the car so we could meet his family. He told us that with the wages he made as a waiter, he was able to live in one of the houses up on the hill overlooking the Caribbean and sent his sons to private school. Although the wages are abysmal by our standards, they seem to go a long way in the countries where most of the employees come from.

 

[wee-haggis]

Originally posted by peg2001
Well, from what I've read here on the boards, they do receive a very small stipend, maybe $50 a month, plus room and board, plus tips. Don't be too horrified, it isn't slavery. They are making good money compared to what they could make at home. There is quite a bit of competition for the coveted jobs on DCL. No one is there against their will.

If you want to feel bad for someone, there are more pitiful choices.

Peggy

Peg...
I'm absolutely horified when I read a response like this!
Just because they are making more than the pittance they would make in their respective home countries,does that give the DCL the right to take advantage of employees by basically paying them a pittance compared to an average US equivalent worker on the mainland?
I can't believe that on reading through this entire thread I did not once see any mention of the DCL paying a fair wage to their employees rather than expecting the customers to pay their wages for them in the way of tips!
Lets face it,for the regular Joe's ,its not exactly pocket change to go on the cruise in the first place. So,to expect the customer to fork out (as some suggest) into the hundreds of dollars to pay the employees over and above the cruise costs itself,is asking a bit too much ....in my opinion.

 

[4nana]

I'm sure the very dedicated staff earns every tip they receive and much more. Yes, we are blessed to be Americans, however, let us not forget we have many Americans struggling also. Many of our sons/daughters are in the service defening our country 24/7, putting their lives on the line daily for us, so that we may sleep safely at night, for bare minimum wages. Yes, they may have some benefits, but after taxes some military families have to depend on food stamps to feed their families. Many Senior Citizen exist on $12,000 yr. or less on S.S. and are expected to pay all their bills, medicare and have no prescription coverage.

 

[dive-in]

There are many reasons to register the ship in another country and the labor issues are just one of them. I seem to recall there is a law in the US that was passed in the early 1900's that is still in affect that makes it advantageous to register outside the US.

I've seen many posts in this thread saying the employees get no time off during their contract. This might be true for some positions but I don't think it is true for most. I know one of our previous dining room servers had one day off a week. He usually got off the day the ship was in St. Maarten because there was a good Indian restaurant there and he was from India.

If you don't like the cruise lines' employeement practices, you may want to take a cruise where you don't tip the staff. Try one of the upscale lines like Silversea or Raddison that advertise no tipping. You'll notice the cruise fare goes up significantly. You are going to pay it one way or the other.

I'm sure there are loopholes in tax and employeement laws that make it practical for the cruise lines to work this way. It's not just Disney. It is an industry standard practice. Whether it is good or bad is left for you to decide.

My understanding is it is a seniority and merit based system just like many unionized manufacturing businesses in the US. The longer you are with the company, the better the job as long as your job is being done well. For example, assistant waiters become waiters and can then move on to head waiter.

I suggest asking your servers and stewards on your next cruise how they like it. Most will say, "I miss my family, but..." Also, don't forget to tip at least the minimum for everyone in your party even the kids.

No worries, sail happy!!

 

[tstobb]

Originally posted by mcnuss
Not a bad living? Come on! After tax, that $26k is about $21k, and I am being generous and I am assuming that the home country does not tax them, too. True, the employee does not pay room & board, but don't you think their families need shelter and food? I am sure most of them send 100% of their earnings home. If they get health insurance and benefits, that will come out, too. How many of us could live comfortably on that?

OK, didn't mean to make this a debate BUT there ARE many of "us" that have done quite well with that or less while still having to pay room & board (what % of YOUR budget after taxes is housing, food, AND, don't forget, utilities?). I drive a car from 1993 with 98,000 miles so I can take my family on memorable trips. Different priorities for different people.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by wee-haggis
Lets face it,for the regular Joe's ,its not exactly pocket change to go on the cruise in the first place. So,to expect the customer to fork out (as some suggest) into the hundreds of dollars to pay the employees over and above the cruise costs itself,is asking a bit too much ....in my opinion.

I don't mind the current system that most cruise lines use to pay their cabin stewards and serving staff. But I do think most cruise lines -- not just Disney Cruise Line -- need to be more open about this system. Perhaps Disney Cruise Line has an even greater responsibility because Disney attracts so many first time cruisers.

I know that cruise brochures list the recommended tipping amounts -- there's usually a little chart buried in the fine print in the back of the brochure, somewhere near the terms and conditions. A more honest approach would be for the cruise lines to mention the recommended tipping amount prominently in any advertisements that quote cruise prices. After all, the recommended amount for a family of 4 is around $300 for tips on a 7-night cruise.

It turns out that some passengers don't tip at all. That's really a shame, and it's terribly unfair to the men and women who work so hard to give us a great cruise. Some of these passengers are just selfish and mean -- but I imagine others just never understood their role in paying for service in their stateroom and the dining rooms. They just might not have understood that the cruise line provides thr room and board, but the passengers make it possible for these men and woman to feed their families and make a better life for their children.

Now, let me explain why I like the current system. The people in the tipped positions have an incentive to provide absolutely great service. By doing so, they give themselves raises.

A friend of mine recently cruised on the NCL Norwegian Star in Hawaii. There, the recommended tips are automatically charged to the bill. Although the passenger can adjust the amounts, the assumption is that the recommended amount is "standard" and that it doesn't need to be changed. You're free to dine in different restaurants at whatever time you wish. You never have the same servers twice. And your cabin steward knows he/she will get the same tip whether he/she provides outstanding service or the bare minimum. According to my friend, the service on the Norwegian Star was sadly lacking compared to the service on their previous cruises with Royal Caribbean and Disney. In fact, they'll never go on NCL again.

I am happy to tip far more than the recommended amount if I get great service.

Summary: The system that Disney Cruise Line uses works well. The passengers get great service, and the tipped service providers can clear far more money than they could in their home countries. But the Disney Cruise Line and other cruise lines need to help passengers understand how the system works -- before they buy their cruises, and while they're on the ship.

 

[taswira]

Cruise lines are not the only ones doing this. If any of you have ever been on an African wildlife viewing/photo safari, you may have noticed that the brochure states that your safari price does NOT include "<I>gratuities to your driver and guide</I>". It is standard procedure for them to receive meals and lodging (in the driver's communal quarters), but their "salary" is generally provided in full by tips from clients - usually recommended at least $5 per person per day. The driver and guide can make or break your safari, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who don't tip them because they "<I>already spent so much on the safari</I>" or overspent on souvenirs . . . just like cruising!

 

[mrsltg]

Maybe it's just me (it doesn't look like it though), but I have a hard time feeling bad for cruise employees. No one holds a gun to their heads and says, "get on that luxury ship, work 6 days a week (friends of mine in college were cruise watistaff... they were off 1 day a week in a Caribbean port), and make anywhere from $2000-$4000 per month". Hey, it doesn't sound bad to me! I am well aware that they work extremely hard, but then again, so do I! I make a good living, but I have a degree and several years of high level experience. A good number of servers are from countries that have depressed economies, low whatever to dollar value, and no real hope for progress. These people come to the US, hop aboard a ship and break their backs for decent pay... I can't say I find anything wrong with that! I am happy to tip the suggested amount, or even more, depending... but I am not about to feel bad for someone bringing home $2-$4K per month, tax free!

Erin

 

[prymsu]

another thought is that not everyone tips the recommended amount, or tips at all. these people put in very long hours every day, so I feel they earn their money. Tips are not something that you can always count on either...

 

[mcnuss]

FYI -- the money is US tax free. Do any of us know whether they are taxed in their home countries? I know I don't, but I bet they are. And for all of you who say that they get free room & board, yes, this is true for the employee. But that does not mean that they are not paying for housing, food, utilities, etc... in their countries for their families. It is likely that those costs are less
there, true, but it still has to be paid for.

I agree that the system as it stands now does induce good service. I am not against that system, per se. In fact, most US restaurants pay servers a pittance (about $2/hour, I think) bc most of the compensation is tip-based. My biggest gripe with DCL is that they automatically add a gratuity to certain items, like beverages, whether or not you got good service. Further, we don't really know to who(M?) that tip goes. We just assume to the bartender, but does it all go to him/her?

My point is that these people work much longer hours and in sometimes menial capacities for a low wage that is very, very dependent on the kindness of strangers. The cruise lines all take advantage in one way or another of the fact that they can skirt US labor laws by registering their ships in foreign countries. They also benefit from the willingness of these foreign citizens to take on these jobs. Do you ever wonder why you see so few Americans in these positions?

I am not naive and I recognize that they do better on DCL than on other lines or in their home countries, and I understand that there are many people in the US who work just as hard for less. (Right now, here in the Boston area, the office building janitors are striking bc they do not get a living wage.) That does not change the fact that they get very little in relation to the effort that is put forth. I don't like it for them or anyone. I am an equal opportunity bleeding heart.

 

[aaronamy]

I agree the head waiter does not seem to do a lot but on our last cruise (not Disney) we really enjoyed our head waiter and got to talking to him. He was Jamacan had a wife and 5 children and had worked on a cruise ship for about 25 years. He said he made much more on the ship than he ever could have in Jamaca and he was made head waiter some years ago, so there is a good pay increase with the head waiter job.

 

[peg2001]

Originally posted by wee-haggis
Peg...
I'm absolutely horified when I read a response like this!
Just because they are making more than the pittance they would make in their respective home countries,does that give the DCL the right to take advantage of employees by basically paying them a pittance compared to an average US equivalent worker on the mainland?
I can't believe that on reading through this entire thread I did not once see any mention of the DCL paying a fair wage to their employees rather than expecting the customers to pay their wages for them in the way of tips!
Lets face it,for the regular Joe's ,its not exactly pocket change to go on the cruise in the first place. So,to expect the customer to fork out (as some suggest) into the hundreds of dollars to pay the employees over and above the cruise costs itself,is asking a bit too much ....in my opinion.

I apologize if my response seemed harsh and I certainly did not mean to horrify anyone. Please understand that the cruisers are going to pay either tips or a higher cruise rate to cover the employees. Either way, you are going to pay.

The employees consider what they are making good wages. So, yes, DCL has the right to pay them $58 a month to work long hours 6 days a week for 4 to 6 months at a time.

Instead of feeling sorry for someone who is enjoying their job and making good money to send home to their family, share your compassion with those who really need it.

Peggy

 

[alexandrew]

your post reflects my sentiments exactly...

Also, I'm sure if Disney, as well as other cruise lines raised wages, the cost of cruising would become prohibitive to the mass market. In turn, this would reduce demand, and the whole industry would suffer...

I am appreciative of the hard work that the CM's do onboard to ensure our satisfaction. But you cannot deny that there is an endless stream of excellent applicants to take these jobs...you cannot fake misery...we've yet to have bad service from any CM's

 

[jrabbit]

Since these folks make their living off of tips, they really were hurting for several months after 9/11. The ships were very empty, and therefor these people made very little. But for the most part, they can make a good wage by working hard.

If we all had to work this hard for our wages, customer service and products we buy would be much better. There is a real incentive to work hard and produce when your compensation is based on it. Just putting in time doesn't put food on the table, but collective bargining does.

 

[taswira]

Originally posted by mcnuss
My biggest gripe with DCL is that they automatically add a gratuity to certain items, like beverages, whether or not you got good service. Further, we don't really know to who(M?) that tip goes.

Right on, <B>mcnuss</B>! I tip generously to the CM's who serve me well, but I <I>do</I> object to the "15% automatic gratuity" on beverages. On my last cruise, I was walking by on Deck 9 and came upon a CM standing there with a tray with the "<I>drink of the day</I>." I wanted the drink but did not want the souvenir plastic glass (I already have some and didn't want to carry it home), but that was all he had on his tray. He didn't speak English very well. As I tried to explain that I really did <I>not</I> want the souvenir glass, he was already writing out the bill. So I ended up paying about $2.50 more (? - I think that's what the "glass" was) <I>plus</I> the automatic 15% gratuity. What did I get? - the drink I wanted, but paying for a souvenir plastic glass I did not want, and paying the automatic gratuity to someone who stood in one spot and provided (IMHO) bad service. Had it not been for the automatic gratuity, his mistake would not have bothered me. And no, I did not even keep the glass! Yes, if he had not already been writing the bill immediately, I could have gone to a bar for the drink - going out of my way and <I>still</I> paying the gratuity no matter what.

 

[LindaBabe]

MANY food service workers all over the United States, make less than minimum hourly wage from their 'employer' because they too are expected to make their money from tips. AND they get taxed on it, too.

 

[mcnuss]

Taswira -- I really hate when I feel roped into a purchase that way. It's a stinky feeling. And I just despise automatic gratuities. I have been known to go to management in other and have them removed when I have been peeved about the service. It happens all the time with hotel room service - they charge $5 for a "service" fee and then tack on 15% for a gratuity. First of all, I know lots of people who have accidentally tipped another 15% bc they did not know it was there. Second, if I have waited an hour for a sub-standard burger or some such thing, why would I tip???

LindaBabe - I did mention your point in my post, but to add to it a bit - now a lot of restaurants when they do the empyloyees' W-2's estimate the tips they "Should" have received based on the number of hours worked, etc... even if the employee did not make that much in tips. It's pretty awful.

 

[mcnuss]

Taswira -- I really hate when I feel roped into a purchase that way. It's a stinky feeling. And I just despise automatic gratuities. I have been known to go to management in other places and have them removed when I have been peeved about the service. It happens all the time with hotel room service - they charge $5 for a "service" fee and then tack on 15% for a gratuity. First of all, I know lots of people who have accidentally tipped another 15% bc they did not know it was there. Second, if I have waited an hour for a sub-standard burger or some such thing, why would I tip???

LindaBabe - I did mention your point in my post, but to add to it a bit - now a lot of restaurants when they do the empyloyees' W-2's estimate the tips they "Should" have received based on the number of hours worked, etc... even if the employee did not make that much in tips. It's pretty awful.