ECV judgement

[olwyngdh]

Part of the problem is looking at it from an individual bus vs. systems perspective and what works on average. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to wait an extra cycle or two because of the limited number of spaces on a bus for an ECV or when I pull up to a bus that is in the PROCESS of loading, with plenty of space to accommodate both the ambulatory and nonambulatory only to be told "sorry, wait for the next bus." someone else comes running up after I arrive- they're allowed to board. That's not equal.

I think Disney's hope is that it averages out in the end (I'm not so sure that it does, especially on the individual level).

I think that is the hope Disney has also. I think the whole thing comes down to perception vs reality. Those of us who use ECVs or Wheelchairs know that we often wait for a second or even third (or more) bus, but those who haven't had the experience only see the fact that we get on the bus first, especially if they are already in line when we arrive. Leaving the parks is always worse than leaving the resorts--people are tired and cranky already and need to have someone to blame.

 

[Toffeewoffy]

I have seen the rule enforced on both the busses and the rides. There are likely drivers who don't enforce the # rules, just like there are drivers who don't enforce the you can't stay on the ECV rule. The problem is that this perception is applied to every ECV user, especially those who don't "look" sick and the verbal abuse of the ECV user and their families is common. The snide remarks and dirty looks are rampant. Thank God Disney doesn't treat us like second class citizens (for the most part) because the other guests do and I am sure that many aren't even aware that they are doing it--they are so convinced that people on ECVs are gaming the system for perceived privileges that they feel that the verbal and emotional abuse directed at the ECV user is justified.

When the lines are mainstreamed, ECV users use them. They wait just as long, and often longer, than the able bodied, but still face ridicule and abuse because they are loaded before the people around them in line.

My point is that to have equal, not better, access on both sides means that if the ECV party can't board with their entire family, neither can able bodied families. That isn't going to happen, nor do I expect it to, but at the same time, it is not unfair to allow the person in the ECV to travel with their family when the able bodied are allowed to travel with theirs--or make the *choice* not to. ECV users are not given the choice. If there were a way to board the ECV or wheelchair safely when the bus is partially loaded, it would be a different situation, but there really isn't. Not only do the seats need to be raised to park the vehicle, but there has to be maneuver room to pull it forward and then back it into the space, and to lock it down. Disney has decided that it can't be accomplished with people already on the bus, and I can't say I disagree. People would get hurt, no matter how skilled or careful the driver of the ECV was.

I think part of the issue is that you can see how many people are in the group with the ECV, but you can't with the people standing in the lines, so it is thought that ECV users travel in huge groups so they can have the advantage of getting on first. We have even had people try to tell CMs for rides that they were with us so they could get in the accessible entrance. I told the CM that no, they weren't with us, but I should have let them come along. They went through the line and got on the ride before we did.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, then once the bus had passengers on it it would never pick up an ECV further along the line, and clearly they do: it happened to me three times: twice at the Martinique stop and once coming back from DTD. And the new buses have one ECV space ready and waiting, with a second under fold-up seats if needed. We even got to ride on one of the new bendy buses - which loaded us in the second half. I don't know whether those take more ECVs/wheelchairs or not. I was too tired by then to take a good look around.

 

[Disneylover99]

My point is that to have equal, not better, access on both sides means that if the ECV party can't board with their entire family, neither can able bodied families. That isn't going to happen, nor do I expect it to, but at the same time, it is not unfair to allow the person in the ECV to travel with their family when the able bodied are allowed to travel with theirs--or make the *choice* not to. ECV users are not given the choice.

I do understand your point but unfortunately not everything can be fair the way you want it to be. I realize that able-bodied families can make a choice to ride together if they all can't get on the same bus, but you could also allow an ECV behind you to go ahead of you, if you think that will ensure that you'll get on the bus with your entire party. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying you should do this, but maybe it could be an option for some people.

 

[MartDM]

Am I going to get so much attitude that it won't be worth it? Am I going to just get dirty looks the entire time and regret it? I don't particularly care what others think but if people make comments my kid will care. I won't line jump. I won't need any assistance. What would you do?

If you need an ECV (and it certainly sounds like you do) then use an ECV. Might you get some ignorant judgment from some? Perhaps, but you need to ignore it and do what is best for you.

DS has always been tall for his age, so as he's gotten older and looks older than he is, I'm sure some roll their eyes and think that he/we are lazy, that he should be walking, or whatever their irrelevant opinion may be. Heck, some here on the boards have chastised anyone who allows a kid over the age of 4 to use a stroller.

You know what, don't care!!! I do what's best for us and if keeping my DS in a stroller during those long days at Epcot or the long nights at the parties keeps him from getting exhausted, I'll do it. I highly recommend you follow the same philosophy and do whatever is best to make your trip enjoyable.

 

[Just_Trish]

OP, I know exactly where you are coming from!

I just had an abdominal hysterectomy 3 weeks ago and am considering renting an ECV or wheelchair for the day of the Villains Unleashed party - we are driving down just for that, then coming home the next day. I am still recovering, but I can get around very well. I'm a scrawny, energetic 41 yr old and I am afraid people are going to think "Why is that lady popping out of her scooter and scurrying around?!"

I just thought it might save me some discomfort especially in long character lines. Before my surgery I had a hard time waiting in line at the 24 hr party due to the pelvic discomfort (sorry, tmi!!) so I thought having a seat on hand would make it easier until I am all healed.....we'll see! I just feel like I'll be explaining myself to everyone who looks at me weird!

I rode one at Target the other day and got several looks (mainly from workers who recognized me) and kept saying 'I just had a hysterectomy...' LOL

 

[goofy4tink]

I'm not going to quote any one post....I'm going to try to be as easy to understand as possible here, and then be done with this thread.. I am, pretty much, on the side of ecv riders, and their families. But...and this is my issue.....if there is a line of guests, waiting for a bus, and the bus pulls up at the same time as an ecv, and group, roll up. Well...state law (I believe) says that ecv is to be boarded first, for the safety of the ecv riding guest. I have no issue with that...none whatsoever. But....now, pretty basically, that group with the ecv gets to cut the line...even though others have been standing there waiting for quite awhile. As you all know...I did have some 'recommendations' as to how to solve this issue....they were pretty much made tongue in cheek. I certainly don't think families should be split up. Maybe, those in the group should get in the regular line, and either board that bus or just stay at the front of the line, and then they, with the ecv bound guest all board the next bus. That way, they all get to board together, they board before anyone else, and everyone concerned has to wait in line.

I have been to WDW more than 30 times since '99.....probably closer to 45 times, doesn't matter. I've been the Transportation board moderator for a long time.....I make it a point of noticing all things to do with all forms of transportation at WDW. Especially the buses. I have ridden the buses with ecv's more times than I can remember. I have traveled with someone using an ecv. No, I haven't had to use an ecv, thank God. I have the utmost sympathy for those that need to use one...I truly do. But there seem to be some here that refuse to accept that there has been a huge a use of the ecv system...for lack of a better term. The vast majority of people need ecv's and use them correctly, with care and concern for other guests. And for that, we are grateful. But, it's those few bad apples that have made e wry one look bad.

I do NOT mind waiting in line while an ecv, or even two, board. I've been on buses with three of them....no big deal. I have no issue standing. In all reality, I'm the one who will get up for someone who looks like they really need that seat, and I'm 65! (Dear God, how did that happen!!!?)...but I do give up my seat on a regular basis. I am probably more familiar with the buses, and the system, than 90% of the people here... It's what I enjoy. I kind of resent when someone tells me that I might not know what I'm talking about, or that in refusing to see something. As I said, I will usually come down on the side of the guest who needs that extra help, almost every time.

There is no making everyone happy here. I'm off to plan my next WDW trip....even though I know, that in 40 days, I'll be kept waiting in line to board the bus....happily so because I'll be in my happy place, with lots of like minded people. Toodles all!

 

[Cyrano]

Folks as the OP has been given the encouragement and support regarding using an ECV I will close this thread as it is now drifting into another subject.