DVC currently selling

[dsnydaddy]

Interesting to me that Disney can't figure out the non-park resorts. Wyndham, Marriott and others seem to. We'd love more non-park options. We did Aulani in December of 2013 and loved it.

I really loved the Aulani and being a west coaster, it was a deciding factor on buying into DVC. I think that Disney nailed it there. That said, The reason that Disney doesn't do off-site resorts as well as Wyndham and Marriott is as simple as the type of people who buy DVC generally do so for access to WDW. Those who buy into other resorts do not have that tie. I actually looked into Marriott and ended up walking away from it. It just wasn't my style. Besides, I could not figure out their complex system for all the DVC points in the world!

 

[tjkraz]

Interesting to me that Disney can't figure out the non-park resorts. Wyndham, Marriott and others seem to. We'd love more non-park options. We did Aulani in December of 2013 and loved it.

Few things:

1) Most other timeshares use more aggressive sales tactics. And those tactics work. If Disney was more aggressive with their approach, sales would increase.

2) I don't think people in the market for a timeshare that isn't attached to a theme park give DVC a serious look. In that case, the Disney name can be a turn-off.

3) Most other timeshares have a lot more variety in their destinations. Again, if you're not in the market for WDW or DL, DVC has exactly 3 native destinations to offer. Wyndham and Marriott have dozens of resorts in very appealing locations.

4) Just because Aulani doesn't sell as well as BLT or VGF doesn't mean it isn't selling at a pace comparable to other timeshares. The issue with DVC is profitability. They KNOW they can build at WDW or DL and make enormous profits because of the inherent draw of those locations and the fact that they already own the land. With Aulani, Disney spent something like $120 million for the land alone. There may be some bookkeeping entries for land use at WDW but the cash outlay is $0. When people talk about Aulani being a "disappointment" or a "failure", seems to be more in relation to higher-demand options like VGF and BLT. I've yet to see anything resembling a sales comparison between Aulani and a similar non-Disney timeshare.

 

[JWG]

Well, Wyndham and Marriott (other than being known lodging brands) had to start somewhere too.

With the success of Adventures by Disney hopefully people will see the brand as more than a mouse. If they could get a few key locations they could even use them with Adventures by Disney as subtle marketing tool.

Though, if Disney were to successfully branch out, would it devalue the program to being available on eBay for a $1 like others...

 

[DenLo]

Ohh two of my friends wants to buy into grand floridian after trying ours :-(
They fell in love with VGF and want only there ( lolll who can blame them right I just love my VGF contract )
So only option is resale ?
Thanks

Your friends can always tell the guide that is all they will buy and just keep checking back. The problem is that DVC has decided not to take names for a wait list for a resort. DVC wants the guides selling the current properties first and any points available from reacquired properties to be sold only when they happen to be available with inquiry. I expect some of the guides spent a fair amount of their days tracking down points for specific resorts, UYs and amount of points, and not always finding them when the current points were available and the more expensive property wasn't moving.

Regarding Aulani, DVC knew from experience with HHI and VB that resorts not attached to a park moved slower. And I expect they did studies as to the normal time other Hawaii timeshares took to sell out. We do not really know how much of Aulani's points have been sold as for almost three years of sales the information was readily obtainable. I think DVC really thought that the Japanese market would be the difference with Aulani as DVC CMs have gone out of their way to attract those buyers by even opening a sales office in Tokyo and a separate call center just for them. But a natural disaster in Japan made buyers cautious and now the Yen is not as strong against the dollar so their money does not go as far. It has not tanked or bombed because sales are steady just lower that expected. I think the biggest disaster DVC ever built was VB. DVC even reduced the size of the resort by half because of poor sales and even today the resale value of a VB contract is very low compared to other resorts.

 

[suebeelin]

There are points coming back from foreclosures and people walking away each month, but based on reports of VGF, BCV, and BLT not allowing new people to the buy wait list, they can't keep up with demand for those properties.

Disney would need to receive over 100,000 points back each month to match what they sell for a new resort. New resort costs them to build (or even less to convert existing hotel rooms) ROFR would cost them around $100/pt to be able to sell again. On top of that, if they ROFR'd for a few month at that level, resale prices would rise rapidly. From a shareholder perspective, a new resort seems to be the more profitable option.

Maybe one day, DVC will expand in NYC. Over the years, many have posted that they would like it. Key is how many are willing to buy/add-on, what they will pay, and how much it would cost Disney. All WDW property was paid for a long, long time ago so it's essentially free. Very easy for Disney to make a profit for shareholders.

Being a public company, Disney answers to shareholders. We (all DVC owners) gave them our money and are now along for the ride.

Sorry to be off topic but BLT Waitlist is closed? I thought it was only vgc VGF and BCV?

 

[JWG]

Sorry to be off topic but BLT Waitlist is closed? I thought it was only vgc VGF and BCV?

Not closed. I was put on it a couple of weeks ago.

 

[tjkraz]

Well, Wyndham and Marriott (other than being known lodging brands) had to start somewhere too.

True. But profitability is going to play a big role in Disney's decisions. I don't have any data to back this up but I suspect Disney is one of the more profitable timeshare ventures. Most of their developments are on land they already own and WDW & DL developments have wide appeal which many destinations cannot match.

Given a choice between building more DVC units at WL, Beach Club, Yacht Club (or a dozen other locations) vs. Washington DC or New York City, the former will be much more profitable and easier to sell.

With the success of Adventures by Disney hopefully people will see the brand as more than a mouse. If they could get a few key locations they could even use them with Adventures by Disney as subtle marketing tool.

I wonder how many people take AbD trips who are not "Disney" fans. I'm not sure that Disney's reputation carries much weight outside of certain circles, and it may even be a handicap in the eyes of many.

Though, if Disney were to successfully branch out, would it devalue the program to being available on eBay for a $1 like others...

I don't know if that would happen given the ability to book WDW and DL locations at 7 months. But unless there is sufficient demand for the destinations to which they expand, the greater risk is that it ends up weighing on the park resorts and makes them more difficult to book.

Hilton Head and Vero probably apply this pressure to some degree. Both resorts have many months which are considered "off season." If villas are sitting empty during those periods, that means the point owners are staying at the park resorts, making them more difficult to reserve.

 

[disneynutz]

are there plans of any additional ones being built? Not opposed to resale, at this point weighing the pros and cons of both. Planning a visit in Feb and hoping to have made my decision by then if I choose to buy direct I will do it then.

Pro buying direct, you can buy a new resort before resales hit the market and you can make a reservation the next day.
Cons, you pay much more than resale and you can only buy what Disney is pushing.

Pro buying resale, you will save thousands of dollars, can buy any resort.
Cons, can take 3 months, Disney causes the majority of the delay.

Bill

 

[Minniesgal]

I am curious about the comments that Aulani tanked or bombed. What do you mean, and how do you know? Not being critical in any way...i really do want to know! I own there, and there seems to be tons of threads on here about how amazing it is. I havent heard one thing about it not being a good resort move until this thread.

For me what this means is it is a beautiful resort and while I would love to stay there I see it as once and done and would not want to own there. Regular trips for us are DL and WDW and I want to own there. Much of the membership is like this want to occasionally visit off park resorts but not often enough to actually buy there. This is why Disney is having real trouble getting Aulani points sold.

 

[Minniesgal]

Charles makes THE critical point here. There is a huge difference between where we might like to GO...and where we would actually BUY.

Yep I'd love to stay at a DVC resort in New York or Boston or Philidelphia but I want to own at WDW

 

[JimMIA]

Well, Wyndham and Marriott (other than being known lodging brands) had to start somewhere too.

They did, but they started off with a MUCH larger hotel system, both involving several brands and hundreds, if not thousands, of hotels.

Some of those hotels were franchises, but other properties were owned by the parent and provided available land and a host resort. A good example of that would be Marriott's timeshare adjacent to their Frenchman's Reef resort on St. Thomas. They already had a spectacular location with a 4-5 star resort in place.

In other situations, they were able to partner with existing independently-owned resorts. A good example was Marriott's development of a timeshare on a tract of idle land at the Doral Resort in Miami -- vacant land, world-class golf, and existing 5-star resort and spa. Marriott even ended up managing the entire property, and still does.

Hilton has done similar things, and very actively ties their timeshare sales program to their regular hotel business. DD is a competitive figure skater, and Hilton is a major sponsor/partner of US Figure Skating, so Hilton hotels are the host hotel for a lot of major skating events. Every time I call for a reservation at a Hilton or any of their other brands, I get an offer for a "discounted 3-4 day stay." Guess what the requirement is for those discounts? A Hilton Grand Vacation Club sales presentation.

In addition to those approaches, Wyndham used a great strategy during the recent recession. They acquired either unsold timeshare inventory from developers or existing hotels in numerous locations at bargain prices. Examples are the Wyndham timeshares in Reunion, FL, midtown Manhattan, downtown Chicago, Smuggler's Notch VT, Steamboat Springs CO, and a great location in San Francisco. That program has really given us some great vacation alternatives!

Disney doesn't have an extensive hotel chain, nor do they have a strategy of expansion of timeshares outside of WDW. Nor, I suspect, do they have the nimbleness of Wyndham to recognize a beautiful opportunity during hard economic times.

Disney is an entertainment company, which also runs some theme parks and owns a few hotels. They are great at what they do, but timeshares are NOT what they do. And I would suggest that timeshares are not what they should do. In fact, I could see Disney outsourcing the whole lodging function they now operate to a company like Marriott at some point when they finish building timeshare units. Might be a great thing for everybody.

 

[carissa1970]

For me what this means is it is a beautiful resort and while I would love to stay there I see it as once and done and would not want to own there. Regular trips for us are DL and WDW and I want to own there. Much of the membership is like this want to occasionally visit off park resorts but not often enough to actually buy there. This is why Disney is having real trouble getting Aulani points sold.

I guess I would be in the minority on this one then, because we own at Aulani and plan to go every other year. We have been twice and have next summer already booked. Of course, we live in CA, so that makes a huge difference. It costs us the same to fly to FL as it does to HI, and we have Disneyland 2 hours away. No real reason to own at WDW, but I love it there!

 

[tjkraz]

...This is why Disney is having real trouble getting Aulani points sold.

Disney has averaged over 70,000 Aulani points per month for the last year, and it even outsold VGF twice in the second half of 2014.

Unless you have knowledge of sales forecasts which assumed dramatically higher numbers, I'm not entirely convinced that sales are as bad as some like to portray.

 

[Minniesgal]

I guess I would be in the minority on this one then, because we own at Aulani and plan to go every other year. We have been twice and have next summer already booked. Of course, we live in CA, so that makes a huge difference. It costs us the same to fly to FL as it does to HI, and we have Disneyland 2 hours away. No real reason to own at WDW, but I love it there!

And there is the big difference. Hawaii fr us would be a 20 hr flight whereas WDW is 11 and DL 13.