Does Walt Disney's alleged racist/anti-union history hurt your theme park experience?

[spidey_99]

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[Sleepless Knight]

No problem.

 

[DisneyBrideToni]

I could care less what the man did 50 years ago. That's how everyone was back then. Not a good way to be but that is how life was (if he was even racist to begin with). I am sure there have been many racist people that have created other things we all enjoy. Who cares. It's not like Disney promotes racist beliefs. I don't care what he did with his employees, if he had woman only working in certain areas, etc. That is what happens in life. Things progress and thoughts change. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for worse. What a person believes or thinks is of no concern to me. If Disney restricted who could go to the parks, then I would have a problem with that. If they are not forcing their views on anyone, let him believe what he wanted.

 

[mechurchlady]

Walt grew up in a white society that often thought less of others. Women were not as smart as men and could not do certain jobs for example. School books had pictures of the typical upper middle class white family with a boy, girl and heterosexual set of parents and a dog and cat.

Over the years things have changed for people like Walt and I think he would have changed on the inside if he was given the time to change. I seen people change the way the act, think and talk about others so why not Walt.

Song of the South is one of his movies that shows a change in the way people think. I am not going to say Disney is bad because of its past. It still bugs me that when I was a teen I was turned down for a job because I was not a size 14 dress. It still makes me stare and think back how there was a time when the disabled and certain people where not allowed to work at Disney and I remember when they used one armed CMs at AK in 1998 because it fit their theme there.

Taht is the past and this is a heated question which is going to bring a lot of bitterness out in people because a lot of us have memories of the past like moldy old luggage.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I don't buy the "everyone was like that back then" or it was a different era cop out. If everyone were that way, our country would have never changed.

 

[scooter15]

I don't buy the "everyone was like that back then" or it was a different era cop out. If everyone were that way, our country would have never changed.

I disagree but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, my husband had the opportunity to interview some Studio CMs that used to work with Walt back in the day and they all said he was brilliant and they greatly admired his creativity but he was the biggest SOB to work for. Very tough on people and expected 200% from them.

 

[mechurchlady]

I don't buy the "everyone was like that back then" or it was a different era cop out. If everyone were that way, our country would have never changed.

I say that was the norm. Gays hid in the closet with secret lives until Stonewall. My neighborhood 50+ years ago voted to keep Hispanic family out. It was normal though not right.

How did things change? A few bold people stood up and fought back in words and deeds. Stonewall is one such incident and there were people who went to court to change things and there were local people who smacked their kids for talking bad and the mom who encouraged label free lives for their kids.

My Quaker ancestors had to own slaves in certain states because as soon as a slave was free a person could take them as their own property. My Quaker ancestors and their families changed society by moving to new towns and removing from the new towns slavery and bad stuff. It took them setting examples for others to make changes in or society. It took bold creative minds to go beyond the society's norms like on television and in books.

It was the norm in Walt's day to use what is now termed hate speech and to have almost racist views. Walt is dead so I do not know how a 40 year old Walt Disney would treat his housekeeper, gardener, employees and run his business. He is dead and gone. I can say that I seen changes in my father over the years as he went from early 20th century white male to modern society that we know today.

 

[50sjayne]

We actually know from many historical documents that were Communists in very high levels of the U.S. government, so it shouldn't shock anyone that there were Communists in Hollywood. And Walt wanted to stop them because he believed that Communism was a threat to the American way of life. He believed that they ruined his ultimate dreams for the studio with the strike. And so he chose to speak out against Communism because he believed it was the right thing to do.

As for anti-Semitism, I don't buy it one bit. Walt Disney did many things to help the U.S. win WWII, and made some incredible sacrifices at the Studio in order to help win that war. And last time I checked, Der Fuhrer's Farce is adamantly anti-Nazi. That said it is quite possible that Walt disliked some people who happened to be Jewish. He may have said some unkind things about them, but that doesn't make him anti-Semitic.

As for sexism, I don't buy that one either. Mary Blair did quite a bit of work for the Disney company including concept art on such beloved films as Cinderella, Peter Pan, and Alice in Wonderland. And when Walt decided to build Small World, he contacted Mary Blair, who had left the Studio, to get her influence on the attraction. And Alice Davis is a Disney Legend in her own right, like her husband Marc.

Now, for racism. I guess that old racist Walt cast a distinguished African-American actor to play Uncle Remus in Song of the South and treated him well. Walt even campaigned for the man to get an Oscar, which he did. The family of James Baskett spoke very highly of Walt. This does not mean that Walt didn't say unkind things about African-Americans. But in that time and era, it does not make him racist. And at least one African-American that I know of worked at the Studio when Walt was alive, and kept his job after some layoffs at the Studio.

Last time I checked there's only been one man who was perfect and that wasn't Walt Disney. But Walt Disney was a good man. Did he demand a lot from those who worked for him? Yes. Was he mean at times? Yes. Did he make mistakes at times? Yes. Was he unfair to people at times? Yes. But that does make him a horrible person. Rather it makes him human.

This__is right and the facts. I've heard this sort of crap too-- I did some research on it and found it to be unfounded. I'd like to stabilize that rumour with the facts that there are some who are just absolutely overly pc these days. Those were different times and anyone under 40 really doesn't 'get' the woman thing. If they did Hilary would have been president. Darlings, we had only just earned the right to vote. Many women died for this right. I am going to the other extreme (as a union steward) and will say he was much more progressive than the average Joe of the the time, and a very fair and decent person. And no-- not gonna watch some patched up piece of crap posted on You Tube lol. That's like saying get your facts on Wiki.

 

[Kittyskyfish]

I don't buy the "everyone was like that back then" or it was a different era cop out. If everyone were that way, our country would have never changed.

I agree with you. Never in the history of mankind is there a complete solidarity of mind and principle. All societies are in a constant state of evolution because of those that believe strongly in a different set of values and act against the norm to promote change.

IMO, Disney was a man of his time and a completely brilliant one at that. He was also a human, imperfect man driven to do things his way. For all his faults, his obsessive drive for high standards is what made his work and legacy stand out from all the rest.

 

[AUzeta]

As for him being anti union maybe he had the right idea look at American car companies and where the union has lead them.

 

[mechurchlady]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

I suggest reading about the Triangle Waistshirt Factory Fire to see where workers used to be before the unions.

 

[50sjayne]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

I suggest reading about the Triangle Waistshirt Factory Fire to see where workers used to be before the unions.

Amen Sister.

 

[AUzeta]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

I suggest reading about the Triangle Waistshirt Factory Fire to see where workers used to be before the unions.

Sorry I really do not want o start an argument with you but I will respectfully disagree. Look at Honda and Toyota both have factories in America and both companies make a better product and are doing well in our economic crisis. I am sorry making GM pay someone 15 to 20 bucks an hour for an entry level position on an assembly line with full benefits is a little much. I have a degree in teaching and do not make much more an hour and do not receive full benefits. I also think that the way they use intimation to get their way is barbaric. MY DH’s dad owns a concrete company in Illinois and does not participate in the union activities and that has caused many issues which include picketing of his jobs and death threats. I think that the basis for the union was valid but it has gone way beyond making sure factories are not underpaying workers and keeping factories from becoming “sweat shops” to a business where their higher up are also becoming “fat cats” at the expense of the worker. I am just glad that as I teacher I was offered and alternate to joing the teachers union.

 

[Kittyskyfish]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

I suggest reading about the Triangle Waistshirt Factory Fire to see where workers used to be before the unions.

Poor management and greed - with unions and company leaders, I guarantee that it's two sides of the same coin. Whatever good intentions unions started out with, unions are rife with the same corruption and self-serving biases as that of industry leaders.

I'm from a former steel town and my family; dad, uncles and grand-dads, all worked the mills on both the union and contracted construction end. Union members and their leaders were not innocent in the demise of the steel industry. They were willing to hurt the business to meet their needs. For all their striking for personal gain (and I guarantee you they were already doing well), they rolled out the welcome mat for imported steel. It didn't matter to them that they drove their customers to seek cheap steel because they timed their strikes during customer contract negotiations. As leverage, the unions held future deliverable contracts hostage. Eventually, those customers couldn't count on the U.S. steel industry to deliver and to keep their own manufacturing lines moving they purchased steel from overseas. Once they got a taste of the cheap steel that was dumped on U.S. markets there was no turning back.

 

[S. S. Columbia]

re: Walt Disney's alleged anti-semitism

The following was written by a man who was (is) Jewish.

The key sentence: “He [Walt Disney] was certainly good to my Jewish family.”

… we visited Walt and Roy, and I got to see Walt's "secret room," which you got to by pushing a button under his desk and then a wall panel opened and revealed a playroom full of all kinds of toys and gadgets. And his house was really a playhouse; there was a model train that ran from the kitchen out to the backyard, and on a good day the train would come puffing out with hamburgers and cokes. Such fun.

Then in college I had pretty much free run of Disneyland, and got to go on all the rides even before the park was entirely open. So I'm a Disney friend and a Disney fan, although the days of those privileges are long gone. But not my appreciation of Walt's genius. (Nor my refusal to believe the "scoops" according to which he was a vicious anti-Semite. He was certainly good to my Jewish family.) …

- Michael Ledeen (December 5, 2001, the 100th anniversary of Walt Disney’s birth)

Source: http://www.nationalreview.com/contributors/ledeen120501.shtml

The article isn't that long. As they say... read the whole thing.

Here’s the link: http://www.nationalreview.com/contributors/ledeen120501.shtml

 

[nunzia]

Poor management and greed - with unions and company leaders, I guarantee that it's two sides of the same coin. Whatever good intentions unions started out with, unions are rife with the same corruption and self-serving biases as that of industry leaders.

I'm from a former steel town and my family; dad, uncles and grand-dads, all worked the mills on both the union and contracted construction end. Union members and their leaders were not innocent in the demise of the steel industry. They were willing to hurt the business to meet their needs. For all their striking for personal gain (and I guarantee you they were already doing well), they rolled out the welcome mat for imported steel. It didn't matter to them that they drove their customers to seek cheap steel because they timed their strikes during customer contract negotiations. As leverage, the unions held future deliverable contracts hostage. Eventually, those customers couldn't count on the U.S. steel industry to deliver and to keep their own manufacturing lines moving they purchased steel from overseas. Once they got a taste of the cheap steel that was dumped on U.S. markets there was no turning back.

this is going off topic, but I have to agree. My Dad was a union AT&T guy back in the days when unions pretty much did what they were meant to do. Now, federal laws cover that. I was management that dealt with a union and it was ridiculous. When I was a teacher I refused to join. IMO their time is over. They are worse than what they were formed to create...now back to the Walt discussion

 

[Grumpy'sWife4Ever]

I was once the manager of a retail establishment, and as such I had to fire a number of people for various reasons. This was a small "mom and pop" kind of place, so I had worked pretty closely with most of these folks, and considered them friends. But business is business..... Anyway, if someday I happen to do something super-duper and someone decides to "document" my character, I would hope that they wouldn't limit their research to talking with these past co-workers who left on unhappy terms....I could only imagine the picture THAT would paint. And while I am sure elements of it would be true, it wouldn't be a entire truth, if you see what I mean.
So yeah, a person could watch a hundred films and read a hundred books and come away thinking they have a pretty good idea of Walt's character. I prefer to listen to my neighbor Dennis, however. When he was a small child, his Aunt was a neighbor of Walt's. He (Dennis) used to have dinner at Walt's house, and was his guest at the park in it's earliest years. He says that Walt was warm, caring, funny and kind. Does that mean that he wasn't all the bad things, too? Of course not. But in my mind, the flaws of a man are the lessons he grows and learns by. It would be a shame to be defined by them....

 

[goodvibrations]

The way I see it is that he's dead and while he may not be that great of a guy, he had some great ideas and created some wonderful stuff. It's a little like Quentin Tarantino. The guy's an absolute jerk, always bites the hand that feeds him, never gives a first thought to "the little guy," and quickly forgets his "real" friends once he's at the top. However, all that comes to mind for many when his name is mentioned is how brilliant a director he is in terms of Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs. Would I want to meet him? No. Would I boycott seeing his movies just because of who he is as a person? No, because a good movie is a good movie.

funny to use tarantino for your example........it made me realize any tom, dick, or harry with a camera can edit a "documentary" and put it on youtube .........in my opinion i always thought of tarantion in the same way, some bozo with a camera....i think all of his movies are unwatchable and anything but engaging

as far as walt disney, all that stuff is from another place and another time.......in fact if anything i now have some insight as why disney goes out of their way to be all-inclusive as it relates to the human race. and if anything this is one of many reasons, but an important reason to us, why we choose to patronize disney.........

 

[Teki]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

I suggest reading about the Triangle Waistshirt Factory Fire to see where workers used to be before the unions.

Not that I have anything against unions, but in addition to those fat cats etc. Unions have caused these companie to be paying 4 none working employees for every 1 working. Now right morally yes it is, good business no its not.

As far as the "everyone was that way" statement. I tend to throw that out there, but I don't mean it literally. I'm not ignorant enough to believe that every single person was that way. What I mean is. That was the social norm. Walt didn't break out of the social norm in that respect. I believe that is what is meant when most people say it. IMO

 

[Huff]

I am sorry but the car company crisis is caused by poor management and corporate fat cats who get paid millions of dollars even if a company is failing. Never blame the union as they have nothing to do with current economic crises. Not union as never lucky to have a good enough job to be union.

You forgot to mention the incredibly greedy union and their fat cat top brass. When the economy was great the union got fat contracts. When the economy soured they refused to accept significant (if at all) cuts. Can't compete in a down economy paying some kid $25/hour to install lug nuts. Fact remains that the majority of Walts own employees loved their job and the benifits he provided.