Do you think I am wrong?

[leahjade]

I get that people struggle. I give over 10% of my income to charity, volunteer, and counsel many people. It does get a little frustrating when you deliver food to people who live in a nicer house and have 3 nicer cars than yours.

I saw an example of this over the weekend at Walmart. A young couple paid for their groceries with a food stamp card then had a flat screen television wrung up on a separate order with their charge card. My husband (who works two jobs) was jealous since he still has yet to get his flat screen. He said he must be doing something wrong in life. I asked the clerk if this was a rare happening and she said "no, we see this stuff all the time - people who know how to work the system."

 

[jodifla]

I saw an example of this over the weekend at Walmart. A young couple paid for their groceries with a food stamp card then had a flat screen television wrung up on a separate order with their charge card. My husband (who works two jobs) was jealous since he still has yet to get his flat screen. He said he must be doing something wrong in life. I asked the clerk if this was a rare happening and she said "no, we see this stuff all the time - people who know how to work the system."

Absolutely you are right...there are people who work the system. There will always be those people.

Then there could be circumstances you know nothing about -- maybe he was buying the TV for someone else. Maybe he was buying groceries for a sick family member who has food stamps, and the TV was a legit purchase for him. Maybe he'll end up in jail for fraud. Karma tends to get people in the end. It's always surprising to me how people let this type of stuff get to them.

Better yet, if you thought they were committing fraud, why didn't you call them on it? Or snap a pix of them buying a TV and turn them in, if it concerns you so.

 

[jodifla]

I helped a family member apply for Medicaid. They were very thorough going through his assets to see if he qualified, and they followed up on it regularly.

But even with Medicaid, he was allowed to keep $2,000 in assets. I supposed he could have gone out and gotten a TV with it if he wanted. And it might have been a good choice. TV was one of the few things he was able to appreciate at that stage of his life.

 

[MrsPete]

Better yet, if you thought they were committing fraud, why didn't you call them on it? Or snap a pix of them buying a TV and turn them in, if it concerns you so.

And to whom would a private individual turn this picture over? Call 911 and give it to the police? Call Social Services (hope the people live in your county) and hope they can identify the people in the picture?

And having some knowledge of the way people skirt the system, I guarantee you they weren't breaking the letter of the law. No telling where it came from, but they were paying cash for that TV. No record of the transaction. No way to prove anything.

The problem is with a broken system. Individual bystanders are powerless -- oh, except that as taxpayers they're expected to fund the system.

 

[eliza61]

And to whom would a private individual turn this picture over? Call 911 and give it to the police? Call Social Services (hope the people live in your county) and hope they can identify the people in the picture?

And having some knowledge of the way people skirt the system, I guarantee you they weren't breaking the letter of the law. No telling where it came from, but they were paying cash for that TV. No record of the transaction. No way to prove anything.

The problem is with a broken system. Individual bystanders are powerless -- oh, except that as taxpayers they're expected to fund the system.

I saw an example of this over the weekend at Walmart. A young couple paid for their groceries with a food stamp card then had a flat screen television wrung up on a separate order with their charge card. My husband (who works two jobs) was jealous since he still has yet to get his flat screen. He said he must be doing something wrong in life. I asked the clerk if this was a rare happening and she said "no, we see this stuff all the time - people who know how to work the system."

Individuals are free to report anonymously any person or any store including Walmart they feel is not complying with the food stamp program (called SNAP)
Here is 1 link for food stamp fraud
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/faqs.htm#20

Fair warning. A jealous husband who sees some one purchasing a tv and automatically assumes they are abusing the system is not proof.

 

[jodifla]

And to whom would a private individual turn this picture over? Call 911 and give it to the police? Call Social Services (hope the people live in your county) and hope they can identify the people in the picture?

And having some knowledge of the way people skirt the system, I guarantee you they weren't breaking the letter of the law. No telling where it came from, but they were paying cash for that TV. No record of the transaction. No way to prove anything.

The problem is with a broken system. Individual bystanders are powerless -- oh, except that as taxpayers they're expected to fund the system.

The poster said they used a credit card to buy the TV.

 

[leahjade]

My point wasn't that the couple was committing fraud! The point was that even though they are on food stamps, they are still purchasing a flat screen tv. It seems the problem isn't with fraud, it's with the system to begin with. There needs to be some kind of financial counseling that goes along with all the free benefits. People need to learn how to sacrifice, budget and cut back when they are in need. When my husband complained that he still can't buy a new tv even though he works two jobs, my reply was "you just did buy one, honey, though it was for someone else - you won't get to ever watch it!" It's hard to stomach working 70 or 80 hours a week and your tax dollars are going to buy someone on welfare a flat screen television! And according to the clerk, this wasn't a rare happening - it's not technically abuse, but it's not working either!

 

[Evi]

hrm personally I think there could be reasons for the plan being so high. But unless its your job to also help them budget I don't know how you can approach this tactfully. Things to consider are there credit rating. Perhaps there credit score limits who they can sign up for and then this will also limit the availability to being able to really negotiate the prices. You have to consider if they are homeless they do not have a land-line so they may very well require a cell phone to be able to maintain communication with each other, loved ones as well as potential jobs and emergency situations. If they have insufficient funds to pay there bill on time it also may be easier to have a plan that will roll over versus buying phone cards.

It doesn't hurt to suggest they shop for a plan but don't be offended if they don't take your advice.

 

[Zookeeperof4]

Here are my feelings on this. A PP had said if you are in these programs it should be mandatory that things like cell phones be stopped. Well I would go even farther....ban cigarette smoking to. Does a person NEED a cell? Maybe not..having a cheap prepay to check in on your kids is plenty. Does a person NEED to smoke? No way.
My DHs aunt cries poverty all the time. She actually went as far as asking him one day to buy her groceries for her and her then teen daughter because she only had enough money to buy her and her daughter each a carton of cigarettes for the two weeks til she got paid. I was livid....to me it should be a no brainer. If you have 40+ dollars to spend on cigarettes then you can take that same 40$ to a grocery store and buy your own food. In this case she would have had 80+ as they smoke different brands and she was determined to get them both a carton. Now his other cousin and his family live nearby...they each have a cell phone..Boost Mobile 50$ unlimited plan each...but neither one works and they have a kid. They come to my house to wash clothes, eat, shower, ect. I repeatedly ask him to not allow them to do this and that they need to grow up and be RESPONSIBLE. They continually find the money for their phones...that 100 could go a long way on a grocery bill.
Now I also feel this way...some people who get food stamps also receive cash. I feel that the cash should have restricted use. Only true needs should be bought. Toilet paper, shampoo, soap, diapers...those needs. I am sick of watching people on assistance pay for cigarettes and dog food with cash assistance. The other day I walked out of Walmart behind the lady who paid in front of me with food stamps. She climbed into an Escalade. Hmm maybe if you gave up your car and bought something a bit less costly you could pay for your groceries.....
Grrr....LOL.....

 

[jodifla]

My point wasn't that the couple was committing fraud! The point was that even though they are on food stamps, they are still purchasing a flat screen tv. It seems the problem isn't with fraud, it's with the system to begin with. There needs to be some kind of financial counseling that goes along with all the free benefits. People need to learn how to sacrifice, budget and cut back when they are in need. When my husband complained that he still can't buy a new tv even though he works two jobs, my reply was "you just did buy one, honey, though it was for someone else - you won't get to ever watch it!" It's hard to stomach working 70 or 80 hours a week and your tax dollars are going to buy someone on welfare a flat screen television! And according to the clerk, this wasn't a rare happening - it's not technically abuse, but it's not working either!

It's hard to work and watch all my money go for wars and other ungodly things. Again, people who cheat the system eventually get what's coming to them.

Life is too short to spend it all burned up about what you THINK the other person is getting.

When I go into Detroit, I don't see any of this abuse you are talking about. I see people huddled in the cold, sleeping on the street, or driving cars that barely start.

 

[leahjade]

[Again, people who cheat the system eventually get what's coming to them.

Life is too short to spend it all burned up about what you THINK the other person is getting.
/QUOTE]

The sad part is that these people are not cheating the system. The government has made an ever-growing class of people who are dependent upon tax dollars to live. Something has to be done or the soon- to -be minority of working people will not be able to bear the burden of an entire nation and will revolt.
Some posters say we shouldn't be judging, but it IS our money. It's like when a relative (happened to us) borrows a large sum of money to save their home, and you see them buying new laptops and cellphones for their kids. Next thing you know, they are going on a nice vacation, meanwhile you are now too strapped financially to afford a vacation of your own!

 

[Colleen27]

Some posters say we shouldn't be judging, but it IS our money.

I just find it very interesting that this is the issue that gets so many worked up. Not Congressional pay increases (the annual COLA Congress gets is as much as a YEAR of food stamp benefits for an average case) or cushy pensions based on a whopping 5 years of service, not unaccounted for millions in contracts to private contractors in Iraq and elsewhere, not tax breaks for corporations making billions in profits, not a tax system with so many loopholes that the super-wealthy pay a lower rate than the working upper class... No, people get outraged over the fact that some undeserving person might be getting a few hundred dollars in food stamps without giving up every unnecessary expense, and even then there's plenty of outrage for how people spend those food stamps.

 

[leahjade]

Who said people don't get upset about wasteful spending of taxpayer money in ALL instances? That wasn't the topic of this thread - the topic was people who are in dire financial straits and on asssistance spending extravagently on luxuries not NECCESSITIES. We need a total overhaul of the system and a removal of public officials who continue to spend money wastefully and unconstitutionally. The sad part is that people will continue to vote for someone who offers them free entitlements without looking to the future we are leaving our children and grandchildren. No productive jobs are created when we just give money away without creating a product or service thus our economy will worsen and worsen. We need more education in basic economics not just for our students but for our elected officials as well!

 

[smokeyblue]

A cell phone for safety and quick 1 to 2 minute calls is a necessity, a full plan with unlimited minutes is not. The government's free cell plan for aid recipients is enough.

I pay $33-34 a month to ATT&T for landline and DSL, and yes this covers all the taxes/fees. I put $15 on my prepaid cell every three months, I've had the same cell/plan for 3 or 4 years now; it is 15 cents/minute.

I would love to have a full featured cell, but I have made the personal choice to sacrifice it to pay debt down and be able to afford other luxuries.

I had a coworker that was jealous of my trip and said she wishes she could afford it. If she didn't have her $100/mo iPhone bill I bet she could swing it!

 

[Bob NC]

Again, people who cheat the system eventually get what's coming to them.

Doubtful.

 

[jodifla]

[Again, people who cheat the system eventually get what's coming to them.

Life is too short to spend it all burned up about what you THINK the other person is getting.
/QUOTE]

The sad part is that these people are not cheating the system. The government has made an ever-growing class of people who are dependent upon tax dollars to live. Something has to be done or the soon- to -be minority of working people will not be able to bear the burden of an entire nation and will revolt.
Some posters say we shouldn't be judging, but it IS our money. It's like when a relative (happened to us) borrows a large sum of money to save their home, and you see them buying new laptops and cellphones for their kids. Next thing you know, they are going on a nice vacation, meanwhile you are now too strapped financially to afford a vacation of your own!

I'm sure all the people losing their homes in Michigan because they don't have jobs would love to know where all this government free money is that has people driving Escalades and flat screen TVs on their food stamps.

Florida has almost no support system. THere's food stamps and Medicaid, and a children's health program. And very skimpy unemployment benefits. That's about, other than scattered county programs, and most of those are out of money. THere's no catastrophic health care even for the most sick anymore.

Michigan has more, but still people are losing their homes every day, and more and more people are out on the street.


Since the '90s, most welfare is also limited by years. So again, I'm finding it hard to believe there's this vast lazy sea of American deadbeat schemers living off my tax dollars.

 

[leahjade]

It varies from state to state. Federal reforms in 1996 eliminated the entitlement to a maximum of five years. States can exempt up to 20 percent of their caseload from the federal time limit. They can extend the time limit beyond five years, as long as benefits are paid with state dollars. However, nearly half the national welfare caseload is in states that either have no time limit (2 states) or a time limit that reduces or modifies benefits when the limit is reached (8 states and the District of Columbia).
And that doesn't count food stamps, reduced or free housing, free healthcare, utility and tuition assistance. There are definitely people who know how to work the systems, and know the ins and outs of how little you can work to still receive benefits.

I'm finding it hard to believe there's this vast lazy sea of American deadbeat schemers living off my tax dollars.

Then you are naive and have never worked for a government assistance agency. We see it every day.
I prefer to give my charity (we always give more than 10%) to our church where someone checks out the families' situations and safeguards against abuse.

 

[jodifla]

It varies from state to state. Federal reforms in 1996 eliminated the entitlement to a maximum of five years. States can exempt up to 20 percent of their caseload from the federal time limit. They can extend the time limit beyond five years, as long as benefits are paid with state dollars. However, nearly half the national welfare caseload is in states that either have no time limit (2 states) or a time limit that reduces or modifies benefits when the limit is reached (8 states and the District of Columbia).
And that doesn't count food stamps, reduced or free housing, free healthcare, utility and tuition assistance. There are definitely people who know how to work the systems, and know the ins and outs of how little you can work to still receive benefits.
Then you are naive and have never worked for a government assistance agency. We see it every day.
I prefer to give my charity (we always give more than 10%) to our church where someone checks out the families' situations and safeguards against abuse.

I think your idea of giving to charity through your church is a great one. It's nice to see money go straight to the source.

And I'm sure where there is institutional poverty, in places like New Orleans, people have worked the system and it's very de-incentivizing for people. I'm sure there's lots of Medicare fraud, as well.

But as a journalist, I see a much larger picture. Easy to get tunnel vision when you are working with the percentage of the population who rely on the system.

 

[Deesknee]

Hi, Maybe they are hoping this is only a temporary thing, and they figure it would be much more expensive in the end to have canceled the phones for what turns out to be only a few months payments.

DH lost his job at one point. We thought it was only going to be a very short time before he found a new one.(due to the fact he had been in his company for 23 yrs experience). It ended up, at $150 per phone x 6 phones we would have been paying big bucks to cancel. If it was only a few months he was out of work, we would have thrown away alot of money. It was $140 per mnth to keep them. When our contract was up, we ended up canceling 1/2 of them, but only cut our bill by about $35 per mnth. When kids got jobs they began paying for their own phones. God Bless those who struggle.

 

[WendyisDarling]

I read only a few posts, so it maybe has been discussed.

Do they qualify for Medicaid? I'm sure (I hope) it is only a few states but I have noticed a lot of commercials on TV here in Virginia letting ppl on Medicaid know they can get a free cell phone w/ 200 minutes/month. (More minutes than I get.)

Don't flame me, I don't run things.