Do muzzles really work on mean dogs?

[sonnyjane]

That is why a prong collar is necessary I think, over a muzzle at first.

We did prong collar and muzzle. Collar and muzzle. Now we just use the prong collar if needed.

I absolutely CAN NOT support that statement. There are many, many articles out there about the negative effects of prong collars. I wish people would just use positive techniques. It takes more time and effort, which is why people fall back on punishment, but studies prove that behaviors are stronger when taught using positive reinforcement techniques, plus you aren't HURTING YOUR DOG!

 

[tzolkin]

Since I have used one, it works by giving the person peace of mind that they will not bite others, dogs, or the handler when walking.

Until you gain control of the dog on the walk, a muzzle is a good idea.

I will give you the example of WHY we had to use it. We would walk our dogs miles everyday. When you walk dogs that much you are bound to have loose dogs at some point. Or heaven forbid people that walk off leash and yell to you their dog is FRIENDLY. (Well guess what, mine isn't!) When we lived in TX and the dogs were much younger this was a common thing.

Just thought I would throw that perspective out there.

I completely understand that, which is why I said that a muzzle would help avoid a bite if that were the concern. (I was not stating that muzzles shouldn't be used, so I apologize if that's how my post came across.)

The OP, however, specifically mentioned that the dog growls and asked "So I'm wondering if a muzzle would stop that?" My answer was really to that specific question. No, a muzzle is not going to magically make the dog stop growling and being reactive to other dogs. I just wanted to emphasize to the OP that the dog is going to require extensive training. Tools (including a muzzle) may be included in that training, but they're not going to solve the issue without effort.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This does not sound like a dog that's reactive to other dogs. This is a older dog growling at people. (See OP below.) He has lived with an elderly person with dementia so we can assume he hasn't had much limit setting.

My father in law's dog isn't the typical loving, golden retriever. Personality wise, he takes after my father in law. This dog is conceited, growls at people, just not very friendly, like my FIL. FIL lives three houses down and is in very poor health. I don't take Buddy (his dog) on walks very often because he's so unpredictable. I took him out three weeks ago and the first person he sees he growls out. So I'm wondering if a muzzle would stop that? I've mentioned a muzzle to my FIL and he says he doesn't want people to think Buddy's mean. Um hello, he IS mean. FIL is in the early stages of dementia, so I'm thinking of getting a muzzle anyway and just take him out the back door. He wouldn't notice if I did that. Please don't slam me for that because I might be inheriting this dog when FIL dies. The only times he gets walks is when I take him. Any suggestions on muzzles would be great.

I think it's tough to make a blanket statement in a forum like this saying never do this or always do that; don't use this or don't use that, etc. We have to take each situation as it presents itself. This case is hard. If the OP can't figure it out, it's likely the dog with either be euthanized or wind up in a shelter, probably go home with someone, then likely wind up back at the shelter when his personality comes out (and still may wind up euthanized). So that's not a good situation for the dog. His only hope, probably, is the OP. So we might have to consider something like a muzzle or a prong collar, IMO, because we are not dealing with a puppy or a young dog who's malleable. We're dealing with an older dog, almost to the end of his life, who's likely very set in his ways. And there's no doubt he's menacing. This is a potentially dangerous situation. None of us here, unfortunately, are going to be able to solve this problem. All we can do is give the OP some ideas and guide her to people that can help her where she lives.

 

[sonnyjane]

So we might have to consider something like a muzzle or a prong collar, IMO, because we are not dealing with a puppy or a young dog who's malleable. We're dealing with an older dog, almost to the end of his life, who's likely very set in his ways. And there's no doubt he's menacing. This is a potentially dangerous situation. None of us here, unfortunately, are going to be able to solve this problem. All we can do is give the OP some ideas and guide her to people that can help her where she lives.

A 9-year old golden should still have four or five years left. That's a third of his life to go. I wouldn't want someone to tell me at age 60 that I'm at the "end of my life". That means there's still a lot of time to turn the situation around and give this dog some good last years - BUT it takes time and dedication.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A 9-year old golden should still have four or five years left. That's a third of his life to go. I wouldn't want someone to tell me at age 60 that I'm at the "end of my life". That means there's still a lot of time to turn the situation around and give this dog some good last years - BUT it takes time and dedication.

Not sure I agree. Most dogs that size live till about 10-12. Out of six, I've had one German Shepherd live till 13. The average age of death was about 10-11. Golden Retrievers are similar to German Shepherds in both popularity, bad breeding, and health.

 

[sonnyjane]

Not sure I agree. Most dogs that size live till about 10-12. Out of six, I've had one German Shepherd live till 13. The average age of death was about 10-11. Golden Retrievers are similar to German Shepherds in both popularity, bad breeding, and health.

I admit I haven't researched it thoroughly, but I knew GSD's had a shorter lifespan, but Goldens I thought lived longer. I had two Goldens growing up and both lived to age 13 before having to be euthanized due to cancer. My friend's Golden is 14 now, but we sadly know her days are limited. Of course it's not ideal that this dog hasn't really ever been to the vet. That obviously decreasing life expectancy.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I admit I haven't researched it thoroughly, but I knew GSD's had a shorter lifespan, but Goldens I thought lived longer. I had two Goldens growing up and both lived to age 13 before having to be euthanized due to cancer. My friend's Golden is 14 now, but we sadly know her days are limited. Of course it's not ideal that this dog hasn't really ever been to the vet. That obviously decreasing life expectancy.

Yeah, sadly, many don't even make it to those ages. There are so many health issues now. I know we've had many around here (at the Dis) who've died quite young. (Both Goldens and Shepherds, and other breeds as well.) I have a lot of friends with Goldens, some of whom I've loved very much, and none of them have lived beyond 10 or so, unfortunately.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Just out of curiosity, I looked to see what the average Golden Retriever lifespan is from official sources.

http://www.goldenretrieverfoundation.org/healthsurvey.html

From the Golden Retriever Foundation:

For example, the average lifespan of a Golden is 11 years, which is the same as for other breeds of the same height and weight. Males live an average of 6 months less than females.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I completely understand that, which is why I said that a muzzle would help avoid a bite if that were the concern. (I was not stating that muzzles shouldn't be used, so I apologize if that's how my post came across.)

The OP, however, specifically mentioned that the dog growls and asked "So I'm wondering if a muzzle would stop that?" My answer was really to that specific question. No, a muzzle is not going to magically make the dog stop growling and being reactive to other dogs. I just wanted to emphasize to the OP that the dog is going to require extensive training. Tools (including a muzzle) may be included in that training, but they're not going to solve the issue without effort.

Agree.

 

[momz]

I absolutely CAN NOT support that statement. There are many, many articles out there about the negative effects of prong collars. I wish people would just use positive techniques. It takes more time and effort, which is why people fall back on punishment, but studies prove that behaviors are stronger when taught using positive reinforcement techniques, plus you aren't HURTING YOUR DOG!

How do you feel about the gentle leaders? We use one to walk our dog because it helps to control hm and is not a choke or prong. It doesn't seem to hurt him, but I'm wondering what yor opinion is.

Our dog is very afraid of people. He has been to the vet, but has never had an exam because of his barking. In fact, he was fired from our vet because of barking. He did not lunge or bite, or jump. Just barking. The vet wouldn't muzzle hm. So, now I need to find a new vet. I think he is going to have to be muzzled for an exam. He is due for shots and I don't see any other way.

But, he is getting better, very slowly, over time. He can walk on leash with the gentle leader. He is ok to be alone in the fenced back yard now as well.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

How do you feel about the gentle leaders? We use one to walk our dog because it helps to control hm and is not a choke or prong. It doesn't seem to hurt him, but I'm wondering what yor opinion is.

Our dog is very afraid of people. He has been to the vet, but has never had an exam because of his barking. In fact, he was fired from our vet because of barking. He did not lunge or bite, or jump. Just barking. The vet wouldn't muzzle hm. So, now I need to find a new vet. I think he is going to have to be muzzled for an exam. He is due for shots and I don't see any other way.

But, he is getting better, very slowly, over time. He can walk on leash with the gentle leader. He is ok to be alone in the fenced back yard now as well.

That is surprising to hear. Find a good one who can work with your dog. They have some who will come to your house. Your dog might be more relaxed there. Work on the command, "Settle". When he's quiet, put your hands on him and say, "Settle". Get him used to it. Offer praise when he stays quiet. "Good boy". Then hopefully when you're in a stressful situation he might respond to it. Keep practicing it. It's one of the most useful commands there is.

Not Sonnyjane, but I've never heard anything bad said about the Gentle Lead collar. You will have to see if it works for your dog.

 

[sonnyjane]

How do you feel about the gentle leaders? We use one to walk our dog because it helps to control hm and is not a choke or prong. It doesn't seem to hurt him, but I'm wondering what yor opinion is.

Our dog is very afraid of people. He has been to the vet, but has never had an exam because of his barking. In fact, he was fired from our vet because of barking. He did not lunge or bite, or jump. Just barking. The vet wouldn't muzzle hm. So, now I need to find a new vet. I think he is going to have to be muzzled for an exam. He is due for shots and I don't see any other way.

But, he is getting better, very slowly, over time. He can walk on leash with the gentle leader. He is ok to be alone in the fenced back yard now as well.

I have no personal experience with gentle lead collars but from what I have seen in practice, I don't see anything wrong with them.

Regarding prong collars, here's a quote I found that sums up what I feel taken from this website http://www.dogingtonpost.com/common-myths-misconceptions-about-prongpinch-collars/:

“You just need to know how to use them correctly.”

"In my opinion, there is no right way to hurt a dog.

ETA: In fact that entire page is exactly how I feel!