Disneyland Tests New Measuring Device

[All Aboard]

Unfortunatly the boneyard was built before the company become so blatant in the "do as little as possible" methodology.

See now, I would guess that your fellow carmates would disagree with you on the timing here. In my estimation, April of 1998 was well within the "period of doom." I believe Jewell defines the onset around 1994. Landbaron may go back even further than that.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Landbaron may go back even further than that.

You are correct!!! The philosophical change occurred the very day that Ei$ner took control. The individual changes, however, happened very slowly. And since everyone has different hot spot, things that mark the change for them personally, the date of the decline varies, depending on who you talk to. Also in the mix is the fact that Ei$ner didn't dismantle all of Imagineering in one fell swoop. It seems to me that he couldn't quite get a handle on this group. So the destruction of Imagineering was more of a piecemeal kind of thing. But to our benefit, as a couple of really GREAT things slipped through the cracks. ToT, Blizzard Beach, Splash Mountain, and a hundred other little things that we all love.

Also, I really do believe that Wells had a better understanding of what counted in Disney life. It's not that I think he was the second coming of Walt or anything like that. But I think he was a little more perceptive and maybe a little more in touch regarding what made Disney, "Disney".

But don't kid yourself. The decline started when the thinking changed. And the thinking changed the day he became head mouse!!!

 

[raidermatt]

CarnyRama is the newest addition to Dinoland USA. It's made up of a spinner with a Triceritops theme and the under construction whirling mouse kiddie coaster. Take a look at WDWMagic.com for photos and more info.

Thanks for the description. Actually, thanks to the disboards, most of all this one, I have seen the pictures and read the comments. I just meant that since I haven't seen it for myself, I don't feel comfortable making a strong judgement. For instance, my vision of an off-the shelf carnival spinner has some lights in the middle, and undisguised steel girders leading to the generic looking cars. So when I see TS described as off-the shelf, this is what I see in my mind. From the pictures I've seen, TS is more than that. But without actually being in Dinoland, I can't really judge the overall theming and feel. On the surface, I don't have a problem with low-pressure carnival games, spinners, etc. It all depends on the fit, and probably even on what comes next at AK. I plan on forming my own judgement in a few months.

As for Grizzly Peak at DCA, I maintain that even a themed area does not need to have an icon of that scale. As you mentioned, there are several structures that could become the park's icon. To me this says that there was money spent that didn't need to be spent. If Disney envisioned Grizzley Peak as the symbol for the park, why make Screamin' elaborate enough to 'steel' Peak's thunder?

Disclaimer: The opinions stated with regard to DCA are in no way meant to imply the author believes DCA is a complete/successful/well-planned park. The author only means to point out there are some Disney touches at DCA, and reason to believe it will eventually become a success

 

[JeffJewell]

I believe Jewell defines the onset around 1994.

...that's probably about right; I like to use Tower of Terror as the last example of Disney (well, at least WDW. We sometimes move well out of my realm of expertise when we start talking about the many and varied arms of today's Disney: The Conglomerate) going stones-to-the-wall, flat-out, giving it everything they had on an attraction. It's that kind of all-or-nothing creative philosophy that I personally think of when I consider "Disney Magic."

I think sometimes some of us barely miss each other in passing, with our conversations. My ToT signpost is useful to me, personally, as marking the spot where things fell over the edge, but I can understand that some folks might think the edge was reached before or after that particular point in time. And, even personally, I don't that signpost is useful as a marker between everything that Disney did "correctly," and everything done "wrong." There're a few oldies that, in my opinion, weren't done that great under old regimes, and there's certainly been stuff after ToT that I can appreciate, on some level or other (this is the point in the post where I typically mention how much I enjoy the Maharajah's Jungle Trek and Pangani Forest Trail).

To me, the ToT signpost is indicative of the point where the see-saw, in an overall sense, finally tipped past parallel. It's not the point where the see-saw, previously all the way up on the Magic side, suddenly slammed all the way to the Cheap side. But overall, I think the company has made a much higher percentage of cheaper, less Magical decisions in the time since Tower or Terror was completed (I've become one of those folks who feels that Eisner simply doesn't have the mindset to manage creative people, whereas Wells _did_ understand that dynamic).

Jeff

 

[tiggerstheman1]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
You are correct!!! The philosophical change occurred the very day that Ei$ner took control.

DVC, I would have to disagree here. I think the change occured when EuroDisney flopped. They took it on the chin with it after pouring in boatloads of money. I think it really scared Ei$ner from spending anything. I have always had the feeling that Mikey-boy really wanted to be the next Walt and EuroDisney was going to put him on that path. Then it failed, along with Disney American, and with the death of Wells -- say goodbye to the Walt wannabe and say hello to Mikey "the penny-pincher" Ei$ner.

Sorry to cause a tangent, please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled train of thought.


TTM1

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Sorry to cause a tangent, please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled train of thought.

My train is too easily derailed!! Besides I was growing bored with the other… ah… well… What were we talking about again?

Anyway:

DVC, I would have to disagree here. I think the change occured when EuroDisney flopped.

I always thought so too. Until, after being on these (and other) boards for over a year, I started to realize that his "Boatloads of money" was really nothing more than disregarding the advise of his staff and overbuilding hotels that were doomed to fail (and if memory serves he was told they would!!). Now, unlike most of my other opinions, I have nothing to back this up but a vague memory of lost, obscure posts and a feeling that AV was in the mix somewhere.

If this is indeed true, then his 'stupidity' started from day one. He just plain didn't get. The only difference I can see pre-EuroDisney is that he didn't know he didn't get it. I think he knows now and just doesn't care!!!!

 

[JeffJewell]

I think the change occured when EuroDisney flopped. They took it on the chin with it after pouring in boatloads of money. I think it really scared Ei$ner from spending anything.

...and classically, he proceeds to simply make the same mistakes, on a lower budget.

From what I've heard about it, the main problem with EuroDisney (from a business standpoint, anyway) was that they had hugely overbuilt hotel rooms. As the park grew to be able to fill up the hotels, the financial side started looking better. That's the impression I've gotten, anyway; I'm sure few will be shy about correcting me, should I be underinformed on the topic.

I can't speak as much for the West Coast complex, but I certainly feel they have overbuilt hotels in WDW. The numbers already weren't looking good pre 9-11, and who knows how long it will take to recover even to those levels? This just happened to be a particularly horrible time to make the same mistake twice.

Sorry to cause a tangent, please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled train of thought.

Equally sorry to extend it; all aboard.

Jeff