Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I've got no problem with the new points charts for 2010. We've got a trip coming up in June-4 nights at Kidani(including Fri-Sat) and 3 at Vero- and the difference btwn taking the trip now and if we went in 2010 for the same nights is just 2 more points. I never liked that weekend points were so much higher than weekday points so I'm okay with this change.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

OK..I thought in order for Disney to go up on points, they had to go down somewhere lese? Keeping the total points the same?

The overall points for OKW is actually down in 2010 from 2009. In 2009, the overall points are 5294. In 2010, they are 5232. Where are 62 points?

It looks like the points are down in all seasons except the dream season. Dream season is up 7 points. (OKW)

Can anyone explain the 62 points discrepency?

 

[dianeschlicht]

If true--that only a small portion of owners would benefit--then it pretty much illustrates the need for the reallocation. Under the old system only 55% of the year's points were allocated to weekday nights. If you have members attempting to use 60-70% of of their points for those nights, there's a big problem brewing.

After the reallocation weekdays still only represent about 60-65% of the year's points. Hopefully that will better reflect member usage.

I totally agree. The only place we were really affected was at AKV, and then the result was actually better, because it means I will no longer have those extra 3 points hanging out in space with an every 3rd year use!

I still think the reallocation will be just fine once people get into the habit of using the new points table the way they used the old ones. The only reason weekend points went up in the past was to encourage the use of weekdays. Now it needs to be reversed, and that's why the reallocation was needed.

 

[dianeschlicht]

OK..I thought in order for Disney to go up on points, they had to go down somewhere lese? Keeping the total points the same?

The overall points for OKW is actually down in 2010 from 2009. In 2009, the overall points are 5294. In 2010, they are 5232. Where are 62 points?

It looks like the points are down in all seasons except the dream season. Dream season is up 7 points. (OKW)

Can anyone explain the 62 points discrepency?

I'd have to look more closely at it to see if there is a discrepency, but perhaps they are thinking of making the HH catagory a higher point option?

 

[tjkraz]

OK..I thought in order for Disney to go up on points, they had to go down somewhere lese? Keeping the total points the same?

The overall points for OKW is actually down in 2010 from 2009. In 2009, the overall points are 5294. In 2010, they are 5232. Where are 62 points?

It looks like the points are down in all seasons except the dream season. Dream season is up 7 points. (OKW)

Can anyone explain the 62 points discrepency?

There are always variations from one year to the next based upon when weekends fall and how many days are in February. The point charts were created by using a "base year" which should be a sort of lowest-case scenario--28 days in February, more weekends falling into the cheaper seasons, etc.

You can't just add up all of the points on the chart. You would have to plug the 2009 and 2010 values into the appropriate Base Year and sum up the totals for the entire resort--all rooms, all nights. A couple of people did it in this thread and reported before/after variances of much less than 1%. Without having access to any actual workpapers related to the reallocation, that's about the best we're going to see.

 

[dianeschlicht]

There are always variations from one year to the next based upon when weekends fall and how many days are in February. The point charts were created by using a "base year" which should be a sort of lowest-case scenario--28 days in February, more weekends falling into the cheaper seasons, etc.

You can't just add up all of the points on the chart. You would have to plug the 2009 and 2010 values into the appropriate Base Year and sum up the totals for the entire resort--all rooms, all nights. A couple of people did it in this thread and reported before/after variances of much less than 1%. Without having access to any actual workpapers related to the reallocation, that's about the best we're going to see.

AHA! I knew there had to be some logical reason!

 

[Dean]

OK..I thought in order for Disney to go up on points, they had to go down somewhere lese? Keeping the total points the same?

The overall points for OKW is actually down in 2010 from 2009. In 2009, the overall points are 5294. In 2010, they are 5232. Where are 62 points?

It looks like the points are down in all seasons except the dream season. Dream season is up 7 points. (OKW)

Can anyone explain the 62 points discrepency?

Agree with what Tim said in terms of being based on a "base year" of 365 days. I did the numbers for ALL units at SSR assuming the base year of 1992, likely the one used for OKW and thus for all. The variance was significantly less than 0.01%. I assumed no lockoff which is definitely the way it was done at OKW and likely for all resorts with L/O. Also, each unit type does not have to be the same for the year, only each "unit" which is usually a collection of rooms.

 

[mickeymom629]

After following this thread from the beginning, I contacted the TimeShare Store to sell our points, thinking that we would either be done with DVC or would buy an equivalent amount or a little more points at OKW or SSR points on resale.

But after seeing what my points value listing was, minus the commission, I called and took them off the market.

My way of thinking was:
1. if we sell (if both of our contracts even sold) and if we do purchase at OKW or SSR, we would be spending several thousands more. Even though the dues would be less (and they may go up at those properties too), it's money we don't want to spend right now because of the economy;

2. if we leave DVC altogether, we would have basically the money that we paid for the points to begin with (that's about the reality of value this year if our contracts even sold at the price we asked), no more yearly dues, and we wouldn't have to worry about how to use our points - I could plan vacations at will!

3. However, when I thought about our future Disney vacations (if we did option #2) it gets the same argument that made us buy into DVC to begin with - because, like someone pointed out, rack rates continue to go up too.And being a DVC member means we have to take vacations and the money can't be spent on something else and that's a good thing.


I guess I'm not really ready to not be a DVC member, and we will find a way to deal with the new point allocations for now.

 

[Dean]

3. However, when I thought about our future Disney vacations (if we did option #2) it gets the same argument that made us buy into DVC to begin with - because, like someone pointed out, rack rates continue to go up too.And being a DVC member means we have to take vacations and the money can't be spent on something else and that's a good thing.

That's the issue I pointed out some time back. IF DVC made sense before, it really does now for almost everyone even those adversely affected. The benefit may be less (or more) under the current version.

 

[eporter66]

I will have to check out the charts, but our usual vacation is to arrive on a Saturday and leave Friday. Not sure how this will change our points usage, but it should stay fairly even for a weeks visit. We dont get to do short trips often, usually a week once a year.

 

[Dean]

I will have to check out the charts, but our usual vacation is to arrive on a Saturday and leave Friday. Not sure how this will change our points usage, but it should stay fairly even for a weeks visit. We dont get to do short trips often, usually a week once a year.

I think you'll find most 6 day stays of this nature went up a few points, but only a few, maybe 6-10 points for a 1 or 2 BR.

 

[O&PsDad]

These point changes could move a twice a year member to visit only once a year or twice one year and once the following. How does that make Disney money?

 

[Dean]

These point changes could move a twice a year member to visit only once a year or twice one year and once the following. How does that make Disney money?

Actually if that were the case it'd likely make more money for Disney. Since it'd free up space, if two families go once, they will likely spend more on average than one family who goes twice. However, this change does not do that overall because the max change was 20% so on average you'd lose at most, one stay out of every 5 in the worst case scenario. Plus, for every points that one person is increased, others are decreased and may go more, or go on weekends when they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Dean : Since it'd free up space, if two families go once, they will likely spend more on average than one family who goes twice. However, this change does not do that overall because the max change was 20% so on average you'd lose at most, one stay out of every 5 in the worst case scenario. Plus, for every points that one person is increased, others are decreased and may go more, or go on weekends when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Dean, I appreciate what you're saying, but also struggling a bit with it. Isn't some of this presumption ? Isn't it presumption to say that two families will spend more than one family who goes twice ? I can definitely say I know families who go often and spend ALOT---more than some who only go once a year. I think that's all based on individual budgets and finances of those families.
Also, to say the Members whose points dropped will go more often....but on the flip side, you have Members like me who will probably go less because the points jumped by 30 points per trip every year ? So isn't that all a wash in the end too ? I could be missing something here of course.....but this is the way I am seeing it right at this moment.

Maria

 

[Dean]

Dean, I appreciate what you're saying, but also struggling a bit with it. Isn't some of this presumption ? Isn't it presumption to say that two families will spend more than one family who goes twice ? I can definitely say I know families who go often and spend ALOT---more than some who only go once a year. I think that's all based on individual budgets and finances of those families.
Also, to say the Members whose points dropped will go more often....but on the flip side, you have Members like me who will probably go less because the points jumped by 30 points per trip every year ? So isn't that all a wash in the end too ? I could be missing something here of course.....but this is the way I am seeing it right at this moment.

Maria

I don't think it's at all presumption to say that two families for a week each will spend more in total than one family for 2 weeks. How much is the question and I'd estimate that for a family of 6 in a 2 BR, you're talking maybe $2000-3000 total difference ON AVERAGE when you account for tickets, dining etc. Certainly it will vary from one family to another, just as the amount one family spends for the same trip will vary.

Certainly the number of unit days should be fairly close before and after, the question is who is in that unit. I think it's likely the total number of unit days will go up with the change a modest amount, else there really was no reason to make the change. I don't think that will be enough to make a big difference in revenue. I was simply addressing the issue posed by O&PsDad. My guess is that for MOST people the change will not affect their length of stay one bit given that MOST people didn't stay S-F and that is the main group that is adversely affected. Even for us S-F folks, I'd guess that most would still go the same length overall. Earlier in this thread someone was complaining because the stay changed 2 points on 250 (I think it was) for a 2 BR. That change won't cost them a full stay in the life of any of the current contracts, one or two weekend cash nights would easily make them whole for the life of the RTU.

 

[TECHJPM]

How is everyone taking the changes that Disney has put in place for 2010? I personally don't like the change, which jacks up the weekday points, and lowers the weekend points. Most of us true DVC'rs always left our villas by Friday, and returned on Sunday. In all reality they should be the same value all the time, as they got their money from us in the beginning, and it would give everyone a chance to use the system a bit better.

 

[tjkraz]

How is everyone taking the changes that Disney has put in place for 2010?

Go back a few pages. You've got 2000+ posts' worth of opinions on the change.

I personally don't like the change, which jacks up the weekday points, and lowers the weekend points. Most of us true DVC'rs always left our villas by Friday, and returned on Sunday.

Not sure how you would qualify a "true DVC'r", but what you said pretty much underscores the need for the reallocation. DVC resorts are sold to be at 98% occupancy year-round. If too many people are checking-out on the weekends as you describe, there's a big problem brewing. You can't cram 98% of member points into the Sunday-Thurs block.

In all reality they should be the same value all the time, as they got their money from us in the beginning, and it would give everyone a chance to use the system a bit better.

If the points were the same every night of the week, locals (people within a 2-3 hour drive) would fill the resorts in much greater numbers during the weekends right at 11 months. It would be very difficult to put together 7-night stays with the Friday and Saturday nights being gobbled up quickly.

The reason for any weighted system is to balance supply with demand. It's no different than the seasons DVC has created. A flat system wouldn't work well there, either. Does it seem fair to charge the same number of points for New Year's Eve as for a Wednesday night in September?

What is really happening is the seasons and days of the week with low demand are being discounted while the peak seasons and weekends are being inflated to mitigate reduce demand. If DVC went to a flat system, the costs for weekdays and lower-priced seasons (Adventure, Choice) would go up further to compensate for the reductions in weekend and peak season prices.

 

[TECHJPM]

I am posting my opinion... You actually sound like a Disney employee with the way you defend them. Opinions are like ****. Everyone has one.

 

[tjkraz]

I am posting my opinion... You actually sound like a Disney employee with the way you defend them. Opinions are like ****. Everyone has one.

I don't believe I was really defending anything.

Personally I've used my points for exactly two weekend nights in 6 years of ownership. So I'm going to be "hurt" by this move as much as anyone else. My only opinion on the change is that it stinks for me personally.

Beyond that, my comments simply reflect the realities of a point-based timeshare system. Too many people--like you and me--were apparently using points exclusively for weekday stays. It appears DVC set the weekday rates too low to begin with. So if there's any silver lining to this, it's that we were able to enjoy XX years of the low weekday rates when they should have been raised years ago.

The only way to help balance that demand is to raise weekdays and lower weekends. Don't be surprised if the seasons are also adjusted at some point in the future.

 

[TECHJPM]

That is what I was basically saying. They should be able to limit what the Florida residents do in respect to the points. The rest of the world should have unbiased points.