Disney reaching plateau in its hotels' occupancy

[JZCubed]

Actually Disney originally didn't want to be in the hotel business. Roy when building WDW took control of the hotels because he wanted them complete in time. They were originally supposed to owned by the company that built them. At the time only being Polynesian and the contemporary. They were behind schedule and Disney wanted them to open with the park so they took control of them and got things done.

I appreciate the early Disney history for which I have little, if any, true knowledge. But at the present time, Disney's largest shareholder is no longer a member of the Disney family. Any conversation about what might be next for Disney World hotels should be viewed through the prism of 'what's next' for Disney, not 'what was'.

Any business decision regarding the hotels would include the following:
1.) Is Disney making money managing the hotels?
2.) Could Disney make more money if they sold the hotels or the management for fees?
3.) If Disney did sell the hotels, what would they do with the excess cash/cashflow?
4.) Would the excess cash be reinvested to deliver profits which are greater than the current profits?

And this last notion is why Disney has no need to sell anything. The company has enough cash to do what it wants, or, it can borrow at the presently very favorable rates if they had a desire to expand or acquire assets at an increased pace. This is a well managed company that has shown an ability to grow both revenue and profits. Some of those profits come from increasing number of hotel rooms, adding Park capacity, and raising prices; other elements of the profits appear to have come from a marginal bit of cost cutting associated with reducing customer contact.

Each and every person looking and posting here at DisBoards has an opinion about the past, present, and future of Disney, and Disney Parks in particular. And while I hope and pray that Disney management looks here as well to gain some insight into what a vocal community of Disney fanatics has to say, I think the 'Ivory Tower' of the executive boardroom is what drives the decisions at Disney.

I am encouraged that the new COO of Disney, Thomas Staggs, has been known to visit the Parks. While his pedigree is not through the creative side of any business, he does appear to have a genuine appreciation for what makes an enjoyable Park experience. Can we expect an increase in apparent employee headcount - I doubt it. But we might see a renewed focus onto the total customer experience that includes Park-wide enhancements which might be considered investments, not expanded costs to shareholders. There really should come a point in time when Disney becomes embarrassed by the empty buildings and near-empty Attractions in Epcot & Hollywood Studios, we can only hope that Mr. Staggs is making a better business case for the obvious next layer of yet to be announced Park investments.

 

[rteetz]

I appreciate the early Disney history for which I have little, if any, true knowledge. But at the present time, Disney's largest shareholder is no longer a member of the Disney family. Any conversation about what might be next for Disney World hotels should be viewed through the prism of 'what's next' for Disney, not 'what was'.

Any business decision regarding the hotels would include the following:
1.) Is Disney making money managing the hotels?
2.) Could Disney make more money if they sold the hotels or the management for fees?
3.) If Disney did sell the hotels, what would they do with the excess cash/cashflow?
4.) Would the excess cash be reinvested to deliver profits which are greater than the current profits?

And this last notion is why Disney has no need to sell anything. The company has enough cash to do what it wants, or, it can borrow at the presently very favorable rates if they had a desire to expand or acquire assets at an increased pace. This is a well managed company that has shown an ability to grow both revenue and profits. Some of those profits come from increasing number of hotel rooms, adding Park capacity, and raising prices; other elements of the profits appear to have come from a marginal bit of cost cutting associated with reducing customer contact.

Each and every person looking and posting here at DisBoards has an opinion about the past, present, and future of Disney, and Disney Parks in particular. And while I hope and pray that Disney management looks here as well to gain some insight into what a vocal community of Disney fanatics has to say, I think the 'Ivory Tower' of the executive boardroom is what drives the decisions at Disney.

I am encouraged that the new COO of Disney, Thomas Staggs, has been known to visit the Parks. While his pedigree is not through the creative side of any business, he does appear to have a genuine appreciation for what makes an enjoyable Park experience. Can we expect an increase in apparent employee headcount - I doubt it. But we might see a renewed focus onto the total customer experience that includes Park-wide enhancements which might be considered investments, not expanded costs to shareholders. There really should come a point in time when Disney becomes embarrassed by the empty buildings and near-empty Attractions in Epcot & Hollywood Studios, we can only hope that Mr. Staggs is making a better business case for the obvious next layer of yet to be announced Park investments.

I was just stating a fact about the company and how Disney didn't want to originally own hotels at WDW right away at least. It was not in regards to what they might do in the future because many things could happen of course. We also can't live in the past because the parks and the Disney company overall is always changing. Yes I agree we all have our own opinions that's part of the reason the DIS exists. I agree that we can only hope Staggs will do something but the question remains will he? The big question here in this thread is Disney is at a point where the hotels are pretty much at a peak occupancy and can't get much higher. What will they do know? Build more Disney hotels? Build hotels owned by other companies? Build more DVC? We don't know yet. What they have been doing as of late is DVC.

 

[DDLand]

I appreciate the early Disney history for which I have little, if any, true knowledge. But at the present time, Disney's largest shareholder is no longer a member of the Disney family. Any conversation about what might be next for Disney World hotels should be viewed through the prism of 'what's next' for Disney, not 'what was'.

Any business decision regarding the hotels would include the following:
1.) Is Disney making money managing the hotels?
2.) Could Disney make more money if they sold the hotels or the management for fees?
3.) If Disney did sell the hotels, what would they do with the excess cash/cashflow?
4.) Would the excess cash be reinvested to deliver profits which are greater than the current profits?

And this last notion is why Disney has no need to sell anything. The company has enough cash to do what it wants, or, it can borrow at the presently very favorable rates if they had a desire to expand or acquire assets at an increased pace. This is a well managed company that has shown an ability to grow both revenue and profits. Some of those profits come from increasing number of hotel rooms, adding Park capacity, and raising prices; other elements of the profits appear to have come from a marginal bit of cost cutting associated with reducing customer contact.

Each and every person looking and posting here at DisBoards has an opinion about the past, present, and future of Disney, and Disney Parks in particular. And while I hope and pray that Disney management looks here as well to gain some insight into what a vocal community of Disney fanatics has to say, I think the 'Ivory Tower' of the executive boardroom is what drives the decisions at Disney.

I am encouraged that the new COO of Disney, Thomas Staggs, has been known to visit the Parks. While his pedigree is not through the creative side of any business, he does appear to have a genuine appreciation for what makes an enjoyable Park experience. Can we expect an increase in apparent employee headcount - I doubt it. But we might see a renewed focus onto the total customer experience that includes Park-wide enhancements which might be considered investments, not expanded costs to shareholders. There really should come a point in time when Disney becomes embarrassed by the empty buildings and near-empty Attractions in Epcot & Hollywood Studios, we can only hope that Mr. Staggs is making a better business case for the obvious next layer of yet to be announced Park investments.

I agree with most everything here. I think you put down our unstated values and common beliefs.

The one place I disagree with you on is Staggs. He probably isn't going to shake things up too much.

 

[DDLand]

And every year Walt Disney Parks & Resorts is in the Top 50 best companies to work for in the US based on various highly respected surveys. And these surveys look at any type of business in the US above a certain size. The survey thousands. In 2012 Disney Parks and Resorts by itself was 33, in 2014 all of Disney was 45 (I think) in another survey.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing this. These mixed signals abound. Were they comparing Parks and Resorts with other companies in that pay scale? In the industry? Could you share the study? I need to sort out all these different variables...

 

[rteetz]

I agree with most everything here. I think you put down our unstated values and common beliefs.

The one place I disagree with you on is Staggs. He probably isn't going to shake things up too much.

I agree many say he's almost exactly like Iger when it comes to things. I expect things to stay pretty similar.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

US Steel was building the resorts, they were not going to manage them from what I read. US Steel isn't in the hotel management business. While US Steel was building the resorts in collaboration with Disney, Disney leased another hotel to practice on and develop training manuals. Doesn't sound like they weren't going to manage them.

And every year Walt Disney Parks & Resorts is in the Top 50 best companies to work for in the US based on various highly respected surveys. And these surveys look at any type of business in the US above a certain size. The survey thousands. In 2012 Disney Parks and Resorts by itself was 33, in 2014 all of Disney was 45 (I think) in another survey.

I couldn't disagree with you more LockedoutLogic! "...in a country that declares war on the mass of its workers more than it does on Iraq isn't that huge of an award." Wow, you really seem to hate this country! Disney actually pays reasonably well for untrained labor. And high turnover does not indicated a bad work environment. Some jobs are not meant for people to be in for years and years. Workers move up or move on.

And I think you accept the propaganda of those that would hold you down and are trapped in another age...

The American workforce was best/strongest in 1968. That isn't a revelation as it had been identified and studied for decades...

That is when upward mobility and social advancement was at its highest for the MOST amount of Americans...and that was what mattered. Lots of flaws...old and new...but the whole should ALWAYS be more valuable than the parts.

Because neither I...nor you...ever lived in this Adam Smith, laisse faire utopia that the Gip sold. It was never that way and shouldn't be.

We aren't gonna agree no matter what here... So lets take our toys and go home...damn the torpedos.

We should wait 20 year sir so and are how things go...then reconvene.

Regarding Hotel operations...
Disney owned the land, us steel and it's new corporation "us steel real estate corp" where to own the buildings. They were gonna lease
Operations to Disney or "someone else"

In the historical context, Disney had little money and huge bill In building wdw...and had considered a merger/sellout to GE or Westinghouse...where Disney would have basically become a part of those mega companies to ease the funding strains. As CBS and NBC later became parts of those companies.

But Walt was gone and roy...contrary to his tendencies...stretched the purse strings beyond the limits out of sentimentality towards his brother. He rejected a merger that would have ultimately killed Disney...as it turns out.

Did Disney want to run the hotels then ? Or were they forced to due to lack of control and the us steel deal going south?
They were not in a position to sink additional cash into swamp then. So I don't believe that running the hotels Was their first choice...

No way to know for sure.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Interesting, and thanks for sharing this. These mixed signals abound. Were they comparing Parks and Resorts with other companies in that pay scale? In the industry? Could you share the study? I need to sort out all these different variables...

It was all types of industries as long as they were a certain size. Disney shows up on many different types of lists. Don't judge a company by turnover when it is in the service industry. A lot of people that love Disney work there a short time and move on.

Management consulting firms Bain & Company and McKinsey & Company topped Glassdoor's annual list of the 50 Best Places to Work, a ranking created entirely from employee reviews. Disney Parks & Resorts is 33:
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2011/12/14/the-50-best-places-to-work-for-2012

Disney 42 on list of best companies in 2014:
https://www.collegerecruiter.com/bl...ney-company-voted-42-best-places-work-survey/

Forbes on Disney's employee happiness:
"For example, Walt Disney DIS+0.57% is recognized for their focus on training and team building, as well as the happiness of their employees, Steinerd says. And Google GOOG+1.15% is known for “promoting flexible schedules and personal and professional balance, where employees learn how to manage their time, multitask and collaborate.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/06/03/the-best-big-companies-for-work-life-balance/

People that work there love it and it is considered a great company for work/life balance:
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/The-Walt-Disney-Company/reviews

#6 Disney has incredible perks and management who respect their employees
Company rating: 3.4
CEO approval: Bob Iger, 89%
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-media-companies-to-work-for-2011-2?op=1#ixzz3Rkme9ID4
Bottom line: Employees are treated with respect, no matter their position and there is opportunity to explore working in many sectors of the company. Some mention however, that there are different management strategies
Employee feedback:
"A great place to work with many different businesses and the opportunity to meet many different professionals. Everyone is polite and kind and creates a great environment to work in. The Disney brand is maintained by all its employees."
"Everyone at Disney is treated with the highest level of respect, from executives to interns. People seem truly happy to be there, and not to mention, there are incredible perks - concert events, movie screenings, speaker series and behind-the-scenes previews of upcoming projects."

http://fortune.com/2012/11/30/fortunes-blue-ribbon-companies/
Blue Ribbon Companies
Ranked:
66 on Fortune 500
249 on Global 500
1 in Entertainment on World's Most Admired Companies
12 on 100 Top MBA Employers

This isn't directly about employment but is also very telling from Huffington Post Market Watch:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/10/best-reputation-companies_n_2831138.html
Top 10 Companies with the best reputations:
3. Disney
Reputation score: 82.12
2012 score: 81.28
For the third consecutive year, Walt Disney Co. DIS -0.26% has a reputation score above 80, making it one of the nation’s most reputable companies. The company has a stronger emotional appeal with consumers than any other well-known company except Amazon.com, according to Harris Interactive. The research company also ranks Disney as having exceptionally strong financial performance, trailing only Apple among the 60 companies Harris surveyed. In the past 12 months, Disney shares have risen more than 32%—more than all of the other of the most reputable companies except Amazon.com. Disney additionally is among the top-ranked companies by Harris for social responsibility, vision and leadership and workplace environment.

And yes LockedoutLogic, we will have to agree to disagree. Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th Century and freedom and capitalism are what works best. 20 years from now? They way things are going it won't be good, but that isn't businesses fault. And the Walt Disney Company is an awesome company, the greatest in America. Where'd I put my flag?

 

[DDLand]

It was all types of industries as long as they were a certain size. Disney shows up on many different types of lists. Don't judge a company by turnover when it is in the service industry. A lot of people that love Disney work there a short time and move on.

Management consulting firms Bain & Company and McKinsey & Company topped Glassdoor's annual list of the 50 Best Places to Work, a ranking created entirely from employee reviews. Disney Parks & Resorts is 33:
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2011/12/14/the-50-best-places-to-work-for-2012

Disney 42 on list of best companies in 2014:
https://www.collegerecruiter.com/bl...ney-company-voted-42-best-places-work-survey/

Forbes on Disney's employee happiness:
"For example, Walt Disney DIS+0.57% is recognized for their focus on training and team building, as well as the happiness of their employees, Steinerd says. And Google GOOG+1.15% is known for “promoting flexible schedules and personal and professional balance, where employees learn how to manage their time, multitask and collaborate.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/06/03/the-best-big-companies-for-work-life-balance/

People that work there love it and it is considered a great company for work/life balance:
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/The-Walt-Disney-Company/reviews

#6 Disney has incredible perks and management who respect their employees
Company rating: 3.4
CEO approval: Bob Iger, 89%
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-media-companies-to-work-for-2011-2?op=1#ixzz3Rkme9ID4
Bottom line: Employees are treated with respect, no matter their position and there is opportunity to explore working in many sectors of the company. Some mention however, that there are different management strategies
Employee feedback:
"A great place to work with many different businesses and the opportunity to meet many different professionals. Everyone is polite and kind and creates a great environment to work in. The Disney brand is maintained by all its employees."
"Everyone at Disney is treated with the highest level of respect, from executives to interns. People seem truly happy to be there, and not to mention, there are incredible perks - concert events, movie screenings, speaker series and behind-the-scenes previews of upcoming projects."

http://fortune.com/2012/11/30/fortunes-blue-ribbon-companies/
Blue Ribbon Companies
Ranked:
66 on Fortune 500
249 on Global 500
1 in Entertainment on World's Most Admired Companies
12 on 100 Top MBA Employers

This isn't directly about employment but is also very telling from Huffington Post Market Watch:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/10/best-reputation-companies_n_2831138.html
Top 10 Companies with the best reputations:
3. Disney
Reputation score: 82.12
2012 score: 81.28
For the third consecutive year, Walt Disney Co. DIS -0.26% has a reputation score above 80, making it one of the nation’s most reputable companies. The company has a stronger emotional appeal with consumers than any other well-known company except Amazon.com, according to Harris Interactive. The research company also ranks Disney as having exceptionally strong financial performance, trailing only Apple among the 60 companies Harris surveyed. In the past 12 months, Disney shares have risen more than 32%—more than all of the other of the most reputable companies except Amazon.com. Disney additionally is among the top-ranked companies by Harris for social responsibility, vision and leadership and workplace environment.

And yes LockedoutLogic, we will have to agree to disagree. Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th Century and freedom and capitalism are what works best. 20 years from now? They way things are going it won't be good, but that isn't businesses fault. And the Walt Disney Company is an awesome company, the greatest in America. Where'd I put my flag?

Oh, that's comprehensive! Thanks! You didn't have to do that. (I'm glad you did though)

 

[clsteve]

It was all types of industries as long as they were a certain size. Disney shows up on many different types of lists. Don't judge a company by turnover when it is in the service industry. A lot of people that love Disney work there a short time and move on.

Management consulting firms Bain & Company and McKinsey & Company topped Glassdoor's annual list of the 50 Best Places to Work, a ranking created entirely from employee reviews. Disney Parks & Resorts is 33:
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2011/12/14/the-50-best-places-to-work-for-2012

Disney 42 on list of best companies in 2014:
https://www.collegerecruiter.com/bl...ney-company-voted-42-best-places-work-survey/

Et. al.,.....

I'm really not doing this as a dig, but - remember all of those "Who's Who.... America's High School Students For 198x", or "Future Leaders of America..." your parents used to get in the mail? But for an extra 50 bucks, your picture and a bigger write-up were possible...?

Welcome to the world of Corporate Ratings.

Been there

And it has about as much validity to this discussion as that magazine/website that ranked 7DMT one of the 10 greatest thrill rides in America last year....

 

[tachyonbb]

Thank you Yellowstonetim for your well documented statement. Those who continually spew animus towards Disney hate facts.

 

[tachyonbb]

clsteve, please document how Forbes, US News and Fortune can be "bought" for a rating.

 

[clsteve]

clsteve, please document how Forbes, US News and Fortune can be "bought" for a rating.

Sorry, not playing the "document" game. How 'bout the word association game.

Let's start with: Shmooze.... which leads to Access.... which leads to Information.... which leads to Content.... which leads to Visibility.... which leads to Advertising...?

You are joking, right? It's a game. The "Company" gets the enlarged, nicely framed, copies to put up in their lobbies, and in their recruiting lit, and their websites. The publisher gets the above.

Welcome, btw. Did my post trigger an alarm somewhere....

 

[Yellowstonetim]

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan. That Disney is a great place to work can be found all over the place. And some of the information shared in those articles came from one of the most reputable sites that collect employee reviews.

 

[tachyonbb]

clsteve, I take it from your reply that you have no proof or documentation in claiming that Forbes, U S News and Fortune can be "bought" for a good review. You only offer cynical innuendo and trite word associations. You have no qualms about making serious accusations about the ethical standards of the editorial staff at these magazines but offer no evidence to back up your claims. This says a lot about your character.

 

[clsteve]

clsteve, I take it from your reply that you have no proof or documentation in claiming that Forbes, U S News and Fortune can be "bought" for a good review. You only offer cynical innuendo and trite word associations. You have no qualms about making serious accusations about the ethical standards of the editorial staff at these magazines but offer no evidence to back up your claims. This says a lot about your character.

I doubt I'll sleep tonight....

 

[DDLand]

Alright, having looked at the information (thanks Yellowstonetim) it seems pretty impressive. The most stark survey was the Glassdoor ranking. Walt Disney Parks and Resorts made it on a list of companies that included Apple, Google, REI, etc. That survey was conducted in 2012 and I checked more recent results.
2012-33
2013-NA
2014-Included Walt Disney Company, so not sure if this includes Disney Parks.
2015-50

Though they were knocked from the top 50 for at least one year, it would seem they are consistently within close range of the top 50. That's impressive.

I'm all the more confused on where they stand with labor after looking at this. There does seem to be evidence that there is frustration, but you can't argue with facts like these.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm all the more confused on where they stand with labor after looking at this. There does seem to be evidence that there is frustration, but you can't argue with facts like these.

Perhaps it's in talking to the employees at the parks...and not in corporate research survey groups?

These surveys can't be definitive either way. There are alot worse places to work than for Disney...it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise. You are in a place (Florida at least) where there is sun 340 days a year and you can't beat the scenery...

But to think that with their decline in benefits, perks, and mostly pay scale relative to inflation...there is not high levels of dissatisfaction...that is the definition of naive.

There is a hodgepodge in 60,000 employees in Florida. I worked with retired cops and school teachers...with off the boat immigrants...with silver spoon college kids (on a swingers extended spring break... No exaggeration)... And those with crushing student debt that are trying to claw out a living...
People with a family of 4 who scratch...and married couples with no kids who owned a country club estate outright because they both made $85,000 a year in 1989 serving juice at 1900 park fare (no joke).

But if it is a question of the "mass" attitude... It has gotten worse. "Bad" on the whole and compared to other companies...again...relative. The best point not to overlook is that the Walt Disney company has I think about 350,000 employees worldwide...and the most basic, low paid of that mass are the wdw cms. Not an exaggeration, or metaphor...fact. And it is a huge cash cow. You are not doing them justice by separating the two, claiming how great the place is to work, and patronizing with a blind eye.

But you kinda have to see it. No American business magazine, stock watch, ratings burea, or government agent is going to give the Walt Disney Company bad marks... It's NOT gonna happen. So they're gonna show up on every "best company" list more or less.
I hate to make it about politics...but it's 150% about politics.

And 200% about money.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Thank you Yellowstonetim for your well documented statement. Those who continually spew animus towards Disney hate facts.

Since you seem late to this very long, multi year party...I'll let you In on an insider tip:

Those that criticize Disney are often the longest, most well Informed, biggest fundamental fans of Disney...and often the most loyal, high spending patrons (cough)

They want it to get better and build its legacy... But don't support quick buck strategies and decisions that are suspect to longterm brand erosion...

Like the villians dessert reception inside the not so scary Halloween party... Or transforming a Scandinavian country in the educational park to a fictitious pseudo Russian kingdom with ice monsters and cuddly talking snowmen.

That's the truth and it's always countered with name spewing.

If you notice: the "negatives" rarely if ever throw personal insults or derogatory quips... That's what the pixie pounders do (as a real time example)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And yes LockedoutLogic, we will have to agree to disagree. Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th Century and freedom and capitalism are what works best. 20 years from now? They way things are going it won't be good, but that isn't businesses fault. And the Walt Disney Company is an awesome company, the greatest in America. Where'd I put my flag?

Now...you can't give me 3
Cable TV taglines/falsehoods and expect me to take you seriously, can you?

I honestly expected better based on past exchanges.

The greatest president of the 20th century is not even debatable if you look at the record and longterm consequences of policies put into place.

And I love it when "freedom and capitalism" is quoted as the stength of America when in fact most big business was grown on government dollars...
Is that capitalism? State steering of "private" business?

Hmmm...sounds like what noted liberal - retired 5 star general who lead the largest army in earths history Dwight D Eisenhower said when he implored the people to stop the "military industrial congressional complex"...

 

[DDLand]

Now...you can't give me 3
Cable TV taglines/falsehoods and expect me to take you seriously, can you?

I honestly expected better based on past exchanges.

The greatest president of the 20th century is not even debatable if you look at the record and longterm consequences of policies put into place.

And I love it when "freedom and capitalism" is quoted as the stength of America when in fact most big business was grown on government dollars...
Is that capitalism? State steering of "private" business?

Hmmm...sounds like what noted liberal - retired 5 star general who lead the largest army in earths history Dwight D Eisenhower said when he implored the people to stop the "military industrial congressional complex"...

I think you're going into topics that will inspire passionate argument that is not conducive to Disney related talk. I think all the readers know all of the opinions here. Let's not let this get out of hand.