Disney Ethics - another WWYD? Thread

[Mel522]

My point was more along the line of it being okay for DVC members to hop to, let's say GF's pool, but other onsite guests are not permitted to do the same. Just like it's okay for DVC members to have more than 5 people in a 1-bedroom villa but not guests who are staying on cash reservations.

So you're asking if it's ethical for dvc members to get things others don't? If it's currently included with our membership, I don't think it's unethical to use it.

I actually never knew there were different room capacities for cash vs dvc. I think the one-bedroom thing is weird since I always thought room capacity was a safety thing. I don't think it's unethical for a dvc member to book 5 into one if Disney allows it. I do think it's shady on Disney's part though.

 

[Claire&TheBoys]

No to most of these.

• I would not lie about my child's age to avoid paying admission (saying he is 2 instead of 3). If we were considering doing "free" dining, I might consider aging up my youngest from 9 to 10. He's about done with kids' meals. Since I'd have to pay for an adult ticket instead of a child's ticket, I probably wouldn't lose sleep about that.
• I would not have extra people in my room, nor add "phantom" people to get extra dining credits. I would not book a "throwaway" room - I don't think that's ethical at all. It inflates actual room occupancy and cuts down on available discounts for the rest of us who do like to stay on-site.
• I don't take food into the parks except for maybe a granola bar or peanut butter crackers so I wouldn't take up a table if I weren't purchasing food from that restaurant.
• I have left the queue to take my son to the restroom and rejoined my family. We were at Tower of Terror, we slipped into the FP line and went out, explained to the CMs what we were doing and they allowed us back through the FP line to meet back up with the others. We didn't push and shove past people either direction.
• We buy EBCI for every member of the family when we fly Southwest. It never occurred to me to only buy it for one of us and save seats.
• Savings spots: I think it's OK to save a space or two. Not for the entire extended family, but to save seats while one or two use the restroom or get a snack and come back is perfectly fine in my book.
• No to pool hopping. More trouble than it's worth.
• I will admit my husband and I parked at DTD one day of our honeymoon to get a bus to the park. That was back in the 1990s and there were buses directly from DTD to the parks. Out of at least 4 days we spent in the parks, we only did that once. We thought it was more trouble than it was worth.

 

[Marionnette]

So you're asking if it's ethical for dvc members to get things others don't? If it's currently included with our membership, I don't think it's unethical to use it.

I actually never knew there were different room capacities for cash vs dvc. I think the one-bedroom thing is weird since I always thought room capacity was a safety thing. I don't think it's unethical for a dvc member to book 5 into one if Disney allows it. I do think it's shady on Disney's part though.

My question is more along the lines of "if it's okay for DVC members, why isn't it okay for other onsite guests?", although I acknowledge that we owners pay a premium for ownership and deserve a few exclusive perks.

 

[TheDisneyNurse]

• Lie about your child's age: No, if you can't afford it, then don't go to that restaurant.
• Have more people in the room than what Disney allows? I sympathize with sneaking in a 5th person. WDW doesn't have NEARLY as many options for a family of 5, which I come from. When we were all younger, we all fit in one bed, and my parents had the other. As we got older, we either booked 2 rooms, or a room to fit us all.
• To have a phantom person registered in your room in order to get more *free* dining credits? No, that is horrible.
• Make throwaway room reservations so that you can book FP+ at 60 days out? Once again, NO. That is sneaky and wrong, but I'm sure a lot of people do it.
• Take a seat at a QS location but eat the food that you brought into the park? Not the nice air conditioned one! Eat your PB&J outside
• Cut the line to meet up with the rest of your party? Fine if you're taking a kid to the bathroom or something. I HATE when one person holds a spot in line at a ride or RD, and then like 5 members of their family join them at the last minute.
• Purchase one Early Bird Check In on Southwest and then save seats for the rest of your party? Never experienced, but no. If you can't afford EB for everyone, then don't do it.
• Save spots at Fantasmic! or a parade for members of your party that haven't arrived yet? Depends on the size. Two or three people is the max for me. If I'm waiting, then so can your family.
• Pool hop? I could really care less on this one, but it sounds like a lot of work for a whole lot of nothing.
• Park at DtD or a resort parking lot in order to avoid paying for parking? I usually stay on site, and I'm an AP. Doesn't apply to me. But come on, if you can't afford $17 for parking, then you really shouldn't be here.

 

[TheDisneyNurse]

I understand that A&E are extremely popular right now and missing a chance to meet them would be a huge disappointment to a young fan. Every kid that enters that queue is excited to see them. Since I have no one for whom A&E is a "must do", I wonder how their M&G is handled differently from other princess M&Gs? Assuming that you could not get that awesome FP+ at 60 or 30 days, if you were to get in the SB line, you would eventually see them, no? Is there a cutoff for the SB line that means if you're not in it shortly after rope drop, you've missed your chance?

From what I've seen in the two times I've been to that M&G, they meet around the clock. When they switch out girls, they close the curtains, and two new girls come out. Doesn't even take a minute. Everyone in the SB will get to see them, thankfully They don't cut the line off until the official closing time for the park.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Could I possibly be the only one who finds these types of threads to be absolutely ridiculous?

 

[scottmel]

ALWAYS do the southwest thing...

 

[Marionnette]

Meh! It's a discussion board. The nice thing about this board is that you can preview any thread by hovering your cursor over the thread title and you never have to even open it if you think that it's "ridiculous".

 

[Narnia_girl]

Taking a cue from another thread, I thought that I would pose some Disney-related ethical questions. Feel free to add your own. But please be respectful of one another's opinions.

Is it ethical to:

• Lie about your child's age in order to get a cheaper ticket? Or cheaper dining? Or *free* adult dining? Or to avoid paying the extra adult fee for the room? Or to be able to have a 5th person in the room without having to move up a resort level?
• Have more people in the room than what Disney allows? What if it's a DVC villa that allows more people for DVC members but not for people staying on cash?
• To have a phantom person registered in your room in order to get more *free* dining credits? How about more than one phantom?
• Make throwaway room reservations so that you can book FP+ at 60 days out? Or using a second MDE account for your current reservation so that you can use the MBs from a previous visit to make a second set of 3 FP+ on the day of?
• Take a seat at a QS location but eat the food that you brought into the park? If you don't agree, would it make a difference if the person doing this bought a soda at the QS location? Does it make a difference if the restaurant is crowded and the people who purchased meals there cannot find a seat?
• Cut the line to meet up with the rest of your party? Does it make a difference whether it's a group of Brazilian teenagers or a mother who took her toddler to the bathroom?
  
• Purchase one Early Bird Check In on Southwest and then save seats for the rest of your party? What if it's only one other person for whom you are saving a seat? Or two? If you're okay with saving some seats but not a lot, how many is too much?
• Save spots at Fantasmic! or a parade for members of your party that haven't arrived yet? What if it's because they were riding another attraction while you saved the spots? Is it a different answer if it's because a parent was taking a child to the restroom or dealing with some other need? What if it's because the family has a child who would become disruptive while waiting, so the parent left with them to keep them distracted until closer to show time so that they didn't negatively impact the people around them?
  
• Pool hop? Ever? Or only if you're a DVC member and only specific resort pool? What if you have friends/family staying at the resort you're hopping to?
  
• Park at DtD or a resort parking lot in order to avoid paying for parking? What if you have an ADR at the resort? Or if you're an onsite guest but that resort's lot is more convenient (i.e. CR's lot is great for getting out after Wishes or YC/BC lots are great when IllumiNations is done)? Does paying for valet parking make it okay?

To answer these I guess I'd ask myself:
Would I be embarrassed if I were 'caught' doing it?
Would I want my child to do the same type of thing to get something they want?
Do I have to lie or evade the truth to get this thing?

I would suggest your tag line Marionnette: "Let your conscience be your guide" but I'm not sure that's a trustworthy barometer for some folks.

 

[dprincessmom]

The one rule that I am tempted to break would be the extra adult fee - really the room rate isn't enough that you have to tack on another per person per night fee because there are three of you in a room over the age of 18? I understand the fire/safety codes and wouldn't risk that but if the code says 4 people I don't think it reads 2 people over 18 and 2 under.

I am ok with one person or one + child leaving for potty break. It happens and sometimes it just has to be addressed.

 

[supersnoop]

The benefit from doing any of these is not worth the cost to my integrity.

 

[leebee]

The extra adult fee always annoys me. How exactly different is it for your 18 year old to be sleeping in a space one night for no extra charge, but once the kid is 19, sleeping in the same bed/space, it suddenly costs more for the room? It's most likely an advertising gimmick, so hotels can say "kids 18 and under stay free!" and draw in more business, but honestly, a room for 4 is a room for 4- doesn't cost more for anyone to sleep in that space.

Southwest EBCI? We stretch that. If it's just DH and me or just DD and me, we buy one EBCI and the check-in the 2nd person at the 24 hour mark. If it's all 3 of us traveling, we buy 2 EBCIs. I always take the seat I want and figure that nobody is going to want the middle seat next to me anyhow. (or DD takes the window, I take the aisle, and we wait on the middle seat for DH, once again figuring that nobody is really going to want that middle seat anyhow). I would not buy one EBCI and assume I can hold the entire row. I might try it, if it didn't matter where we sat, hoping for the best, but there's no way I'd then say "this seat and that seat are saved." I'd just figure "lesson learned" and let the other two family members sit wherever there's space.

Lying about a kid's age at a buffet... Ultimately stealing, but I see how it's hard when you have a kid who eats like a bird. My niece is extremely small for her age and has always had a tiny appetite. My sister would lie about her age at buffets until she was about 12. She simply didn't eat enough food for my sister to be able to justify the price. I know... if you can't afford to pay for it, eat somewhere else, but not everyone thinks that way. Some people think Disney is taking advantage of families by charging 10 year olds as adults (and I actually agree with that, but I don't know if I would have lied about DD's age to save money at the buffets. Never was an issue for us, though, but I can see where parents are tempted).

 

[mommajo143]

• Lie about your child's age yeah, i think lying would be unethical on this
  
• Have more people in the room than what Disney allows? see above
  
• To have a phantom person registered in your room in order to get more *free* dining credits? see above (this has never been something i even considered, but you do pay for the "phantom" person on tickets and room reservations so is it even free once you do all that??? i mean its difficult to even use up the credits you get, much less to have even MORe to use up?
  
• Make throwaway room reservations so that you can book FP+ at 60 days out? not really feeling this one either
  
• Take a seat at a QS location but eat the food that you brought into the park? i think this is okay, generally speaking...seating is limited and they allow it so i have to guess its not against any rules. buying a soda definitely makes it better.
  
• Cut the line to meet up with the rest of your party? i think it is okay if one person wants to meet up (that called being polite to other guests and considerate of childrent...)but i think having a place holder person and then a GROUP join that place holder is wrong. This goes for parades too. If you want a parade spot get one - but dont lay out a blanket and leave poor grandma to guard it while the rest of the "family" goes to enjoy rides etc...
  
• Purchase one Early Bird Check In on Southwest and then save seats for the rest of your party? I dont even know what this is...we dont have SW where we live (boo hoo)
  
• Save spots at Fantasmic! or a parade for members of your party that haven't arrived yet? see above. I am from Louisiana - we are the undisputed parade capital of the USofA and even I see this as inappropriate.
  
• Pool hop? its pretty risky with MBs and all...i wouldnt do it and it is clearly against rules.
  
• Park at DtD or a resort parking lot in order to avoid paying for parking? I think this is okay - you pay, in time, rather than money for this choice. If Disney wanted to close this loophole, the certainly could.

and for the record - i completely exploited the glitch with FPP and MBs last year and booked 3 tier 1 attractions on several days during our stay - it was luck i was checking DIS boards when the glitch got posted but i did it. I don't think it was cheating ... because WDW changed the rules after i booked and paid for my trip. And for me that is the big free pass on most issues that i see alot of fussing about - if i book under a set of expectations, which we all do, and the WDW goes and changes the rules its not fair - so if there is a way to capitalize on a technology glitch or other loophole that is not expressly prohibited then i generally think it is okay.

 

[mommajo143]

duplicate post

 

[Jaime4004]

Well for sure that I agree with. Shoving people against walls to squeeze family members by is not cool. I'm hoping we don't really have to find out the answer to this, because our goal IS to tour as a family. Fingers crossed!

This comes up a lot and my unscientific data suggests that half of people would not give a 2nd thought of someone leaving the line with a kid for the bathroom, then returning, and the other half would think you were a terrible parent for not ensuring that they go every few hours and before every long line as to not inconvenience anyone who may have to scoot over a few inches for 3 seconds for you to get by. Totally expecting to be flamed, BTW. So my advice is go, have fun, and if an emergency arises, take your kid without worrying about what the cranky half think. They'll always find something to complain about... I've had to do it before, and have let many people by for the same reason. Kids are kids and sometimes "I didn't have to go then" comes up when you ask why they didn't have to use the bathroom 15 mins ago when we were all there. Also, I've never had to squeeze by hundreds of people, shoving them out of the way as I go along. There is almost always an easy way to get back in line, i've waited at those spots until the rest of the party got to it, duck under, and viola, no shoving necessary.

 

[MrsNesbet]

I don't think it's rude to save spots for the parades. If a member or two of your party is willing to miss other attractions to sit and wait, then they should be able to save seats for the rest of your families. I find it more rude for people who aren't willing to wait, to try and shove in last minute!

Eviebug - we took a newly potty trained 22 month old to disney and never had to leave the line. I just made sure we went every two hours and/or if the line was long we took one right before we went in the que. Luckily due to drinking so much water at disney I need to use the restroom every 2 hours as well! so it was easy to remember!

The rest, it seems like more hassle than it's worth. We do not lie about their ages, and while some have an issue with disney using "10" as the guideline for adult, they have to draw the line somewhere. At 10 my DS can eat and eat and eat, my DD will be 10 on this next trip and eats very small meals! But I realize they have to make the cut off somewhere so I am fine with it.

 

[bdcp]

My opinion of the things you listed that the only thing that is really not unethical is eating at a QS table. Once you are inside the park, seating at anything other than places that require reservations is allowed. Also, did you really have to ask if "lying" about something is ethical? Seriously?

My issue with saving spaces for a parade is that you can and do displace others who have been standing there waiting patiently when your large group arrives., even 2 or 3 extra people do that and that's just unfair. Even when we had our boys with us, we all waited together, even when they were 3 and 5 and as pp said, you take a bathroom break every 2 hours or so and rarely, if ever, will you have to get out of line. It's actually good that kids learn to wait, kind of helps get rid of that sense of entitlement we see so much nowdays.

 

[dpswift]

Thank you for your perspective. That 'waiting until your entire party is assembled and enter the line together' can in fact mean that we don't get to meet and greet, which I think is unfortunate. It's less about beating out one of two families and more about not missing the chance to meet Anna and Elsa while at the Magic Kingdom as these events are not running all day like a ride. I think it's possible these expectations also lead to the way people now 'game the system' as outlined above, trying to secure their 'must do's' by hook or by crook.

I can't say I agree, though I am appreciative of your response!

While overall I am ok with a mother taking a child to the bathroom briefly in ride lines. I do have a problem wit the scenario you mentioned. Once we were in line for a Snow White meet and greet and the CM told a family behind us that we were the last ones guaranteed to see her. It would be unfair to people behind you if they waited and were sent away because you took a break from the line.

From the list the only things I would do was I did book an All Star room so that I would be able to make ADRs for a busy time when I planned on staying at a moderate with a discount. However I was able to upgrade before my 180 days anyways.

 

[ICF]

• Lie about your child's age - no, but my brother is actually doing that as I type this. His daughter just turned 3 last week and is too small for many things. He didnt see the problem with it. I likely wouldnt do it.
• Have more people in the room than what Disney allows? Those rooms are way to small for more than 4 in most cases. We stayoff site anyways.
• To have a phantom person registered in your room in order to get more *free* dining credits? - wouldn't have thought of this, but as stated above -- are offsite guests.
• Make throwaway room reservations so that you can book FP+ at 60 days out? -- hmm, again wouldn't have thought of this before.
• Take a seat at a QS location but eat the food that you brought into the park? We don't carry in meals -- but probably would do this -- unless there are signs against it which I dont think there is.
• Cut the line to meet up with the rest of your party? Nope, unless there was a TRUE emergency -- take a bathroom break before you get in line. It's not that difficult and should be enough 99% of the time.
• Purchase one Early Bird Check In on Southwest and then save seats for the rest of your party? Nope -- and if I want a seat that's "saved" I will take it. If I pay for EB check-in, I'm not getting a seat in the back or away from my party while you save seats. If it's one seat I probably let it go -- if you're trying to save 3 rows in the front -- not happening.
• Save spots at Fantasmic! or a parade for members of your party that haven't arrived yet? Nope -- and again -- if I'm there I'm taking a spot in most cases. If m/d are taking a kid to the bathroom and the saved spots are small then I have no issue. If you're trying to save 15 feet of space -- not happening.
• Pool hop? off site, so note an issue
• Park at DtD or a resort parking lot in order to avoid paying for parking? Not nearly worth the effort

 

[dpswift]

My opinion of the things you listed that the only thing that is really not unethical is eating at a QS table. Once you are inside the park, seating at anything other than places that require reservations is allowed.

This would be unfair to those who bought their food a QS and had no where to eat inside because of all the picnic lunches. However if there is ample seating in the restaurant I would be ok with it if they bought drinks or desserts.

My issue with saving spaces for a parade is that you can and do displace others who have been standing there waiting patiently when your large group arrives., even 2 or 3 extra people do that and that's just unfair.

Agree with this one. People stake out their places going by the people that are already there. We have had to leave shows and parades when all of a sudden a group of people go to the front totally obstructing our view.