Disney Bus wrecks at downtown disney loading area

[rodneyt74]

A disney bus at DTD loading area ran over a concrete barrier. Happen at stop number 2 I think about 9:00 I asked one of Cast members if anyone was hurt, they told me no everyone was fine. Don't know if they would have told me yes, if there was someone hurt, but that is what was told to everyone there. Caused major back up for anyone trying to get to or leave DTD. We waited over an hour to get on a bus. At that point there was still at least another 500 people lined up all way to toy store waiting on buses.
Took about hour for wrecker to move bus off barrier and then they moved bus under its own power a short distance. They were loading it on flat bed semi when we left.

 

[BecBennett]

These were taken around 11pm and buses had already been moving for a while when I took them.

Sorry for the quality.

 

[George4]

The bus overrode a curb stop. It didn't "wreck". It did wreak havoc though. From another thread, I don't think Disney is really ready to abandon all transportation in favor of buses only. To me, this right here is the argument for expanding the monorail to at least include the 4 parks and DD in a loop. It would be a backup system to the buses with still high enough capacity to move people around efficiently when something like this happens. I know, tens-hundreds of millions to build (maybe more, don't really know), but that would have given you a backup system to keep all of these people from waiting and just being annoyed with your bus system. I know, its a lofty dream

 

[Lord Fantasius]

The bus overrode a curb stop. It didn't "wreck". It did wreak havoc though. From another thread, I don't think Disney is really ready to abandon all transportation in favor of buses only. To me, this right here is the argument for expanding the monorail to at least include the 4 parks and DD in a loop. It would be a backup system to the buses with still high enough capacity to move people around efficiently when something like this happens. I know, tens-hundreds of millions to build (maybe more, don't really know), but that would have given you a backup system to keep all of these people from waiting and just being annoyed with your bus system. I know, its a lofty dream

I agree...but no, it would NOT cost hundreds of millions of dollars to expand the monorail system, maybe in the upper-double-digits (a lot less than Avatarland, for sure), but it's more the fact the type of monorail system Disney, Inc., runs is pretty distinct to WDW and would have to be developed solely for their use. Monorails never caught traction as a commercial option for cities that Disney had envisioned. Additionally, the manufacturer builds the trains unique for Disney so there would only be a little cost efficiency in building a half dozen more trains for an extended route. If they could sell Orlando on developing a compatible monorail from the airport down Internation Drive, etc., then the cost efficiencies would improve for the train, but right now, the cost of the trains (hand-building and maintenance) are really what's keeping the system from being expanded.

More than likely, it would be cheaper to build a light-rail system...decked out in Disney-style...connecting EPCOT, Boardwalk, HS, CSR, AK, & AKL (the route really does work and looks really cool) to relieve the congestion. I would not, however, connect it to DD unless you had a manned station to verify only resort guests were able to get onboard. There are already too many non-resort guests jumping on the busses (buses?) to get to the parks or resorts without paying for parking (though this might be what Disney, Inc., wants to happen if you think of it overall).

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Semantics. If it bumped the divider, got stuck, or broke down, that is not a wreck. Driving into and up on something to the point where the vehicle is not operable, wheels are off the ground, is most definitely damaged, and must be extricated. That is a wreck. A single vehicle wreck, but if I did that to my car, I'd say I wrecked my car.

Apparently the monorail is problematic. I think being up in the air is part of the maintenance problem. Why not some type of light rail if not an actual monorail. Expensive to build, but when built it would be efficient and could move a lot of people. And it can be elevated in some places and not others. Or elevate the roads to cross the rails.

 

[George4]

The monorail is, from an engineering perspective, a simple and elegant machine - an electric motor that rotates or reverses polarity of a magnet. That's it. There should be relatively little maintenance on the drive mechanism. More likely, the trouble is in the door mechanics or power rails along the track. That could be problematic to repair - especially since the cars are pretty much constantly running. However, the elevated nature of the track is what helps make sure there is little to no impact on the wildlife in the area (trains can dodge animals). Light rail would either need to be elevated as well (leaving us with the same maintenance challenges, except with a more complicated drive mechanism) or run the risk of impact on the wildlife or physical impact with visitors cars.

I would be curious to know what all of the supposed maintenance challenges are with the monorail. I haven't heard anything real specific or concrete (other than the accident).

 

[Lord Fantasius]

The monorail is, from an engineering perspective, a simple and elegant machine - an electric motor that rotates or reverses polarity of a magnet. That's it. There should be relatively little maintenance on the drive mechanism. More likely, the trouble is in the door mechanics or power rails along the track. That could be problematic to repair - especially since the cars are pretty much constantly running. However, the elevated nature of the track is what helps make sure there is little to no impact on the wildlife in the area (trains can dodge animals). Light rail would either need to be elevated as well (leaving us with the same maintenance challenges, except with a more complicated drive mechanism) or run the risk of impact on the wildlife or physical impact with visitors cars.

I would be curious to know what all of the supposed maintenance challenges are with the monorail. I haven't heard anything real specific or concrete (other than the accident).

You're right, but they're actually not run ENOUGH. The maintenance issues are from the constant short-term run-stop-run which kills the drive & linkage systems. Motors aren't the issue. Wedway People-Mover (or whatever it's called these days) & its modern commercial successor, the light-rail, are much more suited to that type of environment. If Disney linked the two monorail tracks into one large figure-8, it would reduce maintenance and help increase the life of the trains all-around (and solve the hassle of guests having to switch trains between MK & EPCOT).

 

[ParrotBill]

The monorail is extremely expensive to build, and maintenance is more costly given the system and all parts are specially engineered and not a mass-produced thing. Buses are easier to budget for - x buses per year to be replaced or refurbished. Buses are easier to gear up and down for varying passenger volumes, whereas the monorail requires a big operation to add/subtract trains.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

The monorail is extremely expensive to build, and maintenance is more costly given the system and all parts are specially engineered and not a mass-produced thing. Buses are easier to budget for - x buses per year to be replaced or refurbished. Buses are easier to gear up and down for varying passenger volumes, whereas the monorail requires a big operation to add/subtract trains.

From a purely accounting point of view, perhaps, but...

Buses are ugly, non-magical, "common," street-clogging, slow-to-fill (especially if requiring handicapped/special assistance) vehicles that rely on the driver to make the difference between a "magical" day and a miserable day. In the week we were there last year, majority of the drivers were "good," though nothing to make or break our day, with the exception of 2 outstanding drivers (s/b given the Disney Meritorous Award...if there is such a thing), and 2 truly dismal grouches (would have been dismissed on the spot by Walt himself).

The monorails are one of those "loss-leaders" that aren't done because they are economically justifiable in the short-term, but add great value to the experience and DO provide financial justification in the broad scheme of things.

 

[anthony2k7]

Semantics. If it bumped the divider, got stuck, or broke down, that is not a wreck. Driving into and up on something to the point where the vehicle is not operable, wheels are off the ground, is most definitely damaged, and must be extricated. That is a wreck. A single vehicle wreck, but if I did that to my car, I'd say I wrecked my car.

Apparently the monorail is problematic. I think being up in the air is part of the maintenance problem. Why not some type of light rail if not an actual monorail. Expensive to build, but when built it would be efficient and could move a lot of people. And it can be elevated in some places and not others. Or elevate the roads to cross the rails.

Yes Semantics. Wreck is one of those words that in American has gained a new meaning compared to the true English meaning.

In English wreck basically means destroyed. So a vehicle being "wrecked" would mean completely destroyed beyond repair. This bus is definitely not in that state.

In American, wreck seems to apply to almost any accident involving a vehicle even if there is very little damage.

 

[perditax]

Misleading thread title. Downtown Disney, however, IS a wreck.

 

[kollegekreed]

A wreck? I expected to see a smashed up bus and hear about casualties...sensationalism much?

 

[seashoreCM]

Surely Disney could have cobbled together some means to get guests in and out of Downtown Disney with the bus station blocked. Is the Old West Side (Cirque de Soleil) bus station still usable? Is the "Pleasure Island" bus station still usable? Could a single point to point bus shuttle have been established from Marketplace to Hollywood Studios (or Old West Side or Typhoon Lagoon) where DtD guests could transfer to their respective resort buses?

What advantages can light rail offer over buses?
1. Lower labor costs; one operator can handle a train of cars that holds many more people than even the longest buses.
2. A dedicated right of way unencumbered by private automobiles and other traffic (the latter not much of a problem most of the time on Disney's existing freeways and boulevards).
3. More energy efficiency and ride comfort using steel wheels on steel rails (made a lot of sense a hundred years ago when roads were dirt or cobblestones, but rubber on pavement comes close in efficiency and comfort)
Disadvantages of light rail at Disney:
1. Either more expensive and more complicated track or inability to run nonstop park to resort trips for most resorts.
2, Even one breakdown is likely to affect many routings and larger number of guests compared with the existing bus and roadway system.

The reason why the monorail exists at Disney is because Walt was an aficionado of futuristic transportation systems. (He was also a railroad aficionado.)
The ancestor of light rail is the Main St. horsecar, not the Wedway/Tomorrowland Transit Authority.
Buses = smelly? They make (electric) buses that don't emit any combustion fumes.
Buses = slow loading? They make buses with wider doors and aisles.
Unmagical bus driver? A light rail driver could do the same. Or did they put automated scripts on the PA systems in all the buses like they did in the Living With the Land ride boats?

 

[Tardisblue]

If Disney isn't the perfect corporate candidate to back driverless transportation, I don't know who is. Monorails are cool. I like them, I rode in the front of one back in the 70's when I was only 3 years old and still remember it. But they run on a closed system and when they break down, it's a nightmare. Disney should be looking to partner with Google, Apple or whomever to figure out how to efficiently move guests around the parks on clean, quiet buses/pods without delays.

 

[Felipe4]

In all probability, it would take something like 10-15+ years between design and completing construction for a light rail system. Of course, my estimations are moreso based off of Boston's Green Line Extension (which my firm is working on as a sub for design). It's just an extension mind you, and the design has been complete for a while (or at least our portion), but construction won't end for another 4 years. We run into government issues whereas Disney is privatized so there's less hassle, but you can't slap an entire working light rail system together quickly. Of course, a light rail system would be awesome, particularly if if was able to hit a bunch of the resorts.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Light rail (or any kind of rail) looks really cool and is fun to ride. But it has many practical and financial drawbacks. Everything about rail construction and operation is more specialized and expensive than operating buses. Each foot of track is astronomically more expensive to build than each foot of asphalt needed for buses. The rail cars are much more heavy and expensive. Rail cars are slower to accelerate and harder to stop than buses. Therefore the stations have to be fairly far apart and you can't put as many trains on the same section of track as you can put buses on a section of road, because trains need lots more space between them. Once it's running, any one of a hundred different possible glitches means that the entire rail line becomes unusable. You can't put replacement trains on the track and route them around a problem if a train breaks down, or the signals break, or an electrical failure occurs, or the switches don't function - because the track is blocked! It's fairly difficult to mix trains and road traffic together, and needs expensive and complicated crossings, with special signals or gates.

Disney will never build a light rail system and I'm pretty sure they will never expand the monorail system either.

 

[George4]

Disney will never build a light rail system and I'm pretty sure they will never expand the monorail system either.

You could be right, and probably are, but a guy has to dream.

I would love to see the WDW monorail loop (or 2-3) within WDW and to and from the airport. I don't know how fast the monorail goes, but can you imagine giving people that ride across Orlando and into the WDW property? You bring them straight to the transportation center where you have buses waiting to loop them through different hotel loops for each resort area. The loops take 30-60 minutes and would probably take half as many buses as you are using now, eliminate any traffic issues while giving people an AMAZING start and end to their vacation.

Now you just have to figure out how to get a bathroom on the monorail.

 

[Tardisblue]

Further to my previous comment. This seems like a no-brainer for Disney. Each unit could be branded/themed, it could have music from the parks and movies playing. If one breaks down, you have multiple back ups and it would not cause a major delay like a monorail or light rail system.

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-self-driving-cars-arrive-chris-urmson-2020-2015-3

 

[George4]

If one breaks down, you have multiple back ups and it would not cause a major delay like a monorail or light rail system.

Keep in mind that the monorail operates at something like 99.8% reliability. Yes, occasionally breakdowns occur, but that can be reasonably solved by putting 2-4 switches in a long loop where you can move between the twin tracks, or build three tracks and have the 3rd track being the backup rail when something else fails. Or perhaps you develop a pure "neutral" gear for the monorail trains along with a towing or push vehicle.

Again, these things can be solved. Buses are quicker and easier in the short term, but they add to traffic, require a lot of personnel (something Disney is against right now), and are susceptible to accidents at any time. One minor bus accident wreaked havoc at DD for hours because no one else could get around it. With switches, the monorails would slow down, but still be perfectly functional around the disabled vehicle.

My only curiosity with this pipe dream is what does fail on the monorail? Is it in the cars, or something else? In my trips to WDW since 1975, I have only seen one break down one time, and that was because there was a power supply problem. If you had a backup way to provide power to the system, does that solve the bulk of the problems?

Again, it's a dream.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

My only curiosity with this pipe dream is what does fail on the monorail? Is it in the cars, or something else? In my trips to WDW since 1975, I have only seen one break down one time, and that was because there was a power supply problem. If you had a backup way to provide power to the system, does that solve the bulk of the problems?

I'd love to see an answer to this question myself. Any time the subject of the monorail comes up, people always say 1) It's very expensive to operate and 2) it is very unreliable. However, no one ever gives any details or examples of specific breakdowns, breakdown rates, or costs of operation.