Disney apologizes for cheer routine

[tzolkin]

Mascots shouldn’t be based on any race.

I’m having a hard time understanding why this concept is so difficult for people to grasp. Every time something like this comes up, people get all defensive and start shouting about “snowflakes”, cancel culture, and how everyone today is easily offended.

But this particular topic has been addressed in great depth at least since the 1970s. 50+ years and some still can’t just accept that it’s wrong to use racist stereotypes for school mascots?

Ironically, the term Indian is used here but normally refers to the many people from India that live here now.

American Indian has been an accepted academic term for people indigenous to the Americas for a few decades.

It is easy to blame a name for rude, uncivilized, bigoted behavior of the people involved. I'm not accepting that as an excuse. Blame the ones actually doing it not the name of a culture.

I’m not sure why you’re so set on defending the name. The actual word “Indian” is not the issue. No one is trying to wipe American Indian people from history or eliminate their cultures by opposing this team’s name.

We are simply saying that using a racial term for a school mascot is wrong. It’s wrong because 1. It dehumanizes the people it references and 2. It perpetuates racist stereotypes.

 

[dcassetta]

When the article first ran earlier this week, I somehow knew the group would be from Texas before I even opened it to read. The Port Neches/Beaumont area folks would not bat an eye at this type of behavior. I'm a native Texan, so before someone tells me I'm wrong just know these types of groups exist all over the state of Texas still in this day and age. No matter how far some areas of the state progress, there will always be these racist strongholds around the state.

Texas is super divided these days between areas where real positive change exists and areas like Port Neches where "tradition" is their racist battle cry.

I did see a picture of their headdresses and thought it was a strange choice for teen girls from south Texas. That type of feathered headdress is not associated with any of the Native American people who lived on the gulf coast. They were worn by men in some of the nations of the upper plains, and had strong religious significance, but that religion was not Christianity. In some of the news articles, the school seems to attribute some of the "traditions" as honoring the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee people did not live in that part of Texas and Cherokee men do not wear that style of headdress.

So, who is it that they are trying to "honor" with their "traditions"?

 

[monsterkitty]

wow...contract for school talent show...we used a green chalk board

It was actually a letter that explained the rules for participating. We had the student and parent or guardian sign the rules, stating they understood the rules and consequences if the rules were broken.

We did this because the choir teacher, during her first year, had a "pops" concert where she let the students pick their songs. More than a few groups changed the words during the performances. She learned the hard way you have to have expectations and consequences in writing, not just verbal.

 

[RangerPooh]

What I find quite interesting, is that the people watching the parade, who presumably understood the words being chanted (are they supposed to be so tuneless?) and saw the accompanying actions, continued to applaud. I am surprised that people didn’t turn away, although I suppose someone must have complained for it to be picked up as a story.

We were there last week, and just missed their performance as we were exiting the park shortly before it began. This school had a large group of adult and youth supporters with them. Many were camped out in front of the Main Street train station waiting for their performance when we left. What no one has mentioned is the shirts that they were wearing in the parks. They were purple with white Mickey Mouse wearing a large headdress. I recall seeing it everywhere (again, large group) and questioning whether it was appropriate? Of course there is an old clipart image of Mickey in a headdress.

 

[kymom99]

From the twitter post, it seems that this group is used to getting called out every year for this and doesn’t intend to change.

 

[AustinTink]

I did see a picture of their headdresses and thought it was a strange choice for teen girls from south Texas. That type of feathered headdress is not associated with any of the Native American people who lived on the gulf coast. They were worn by men in some of the nations of the upper plains, and had strong religious significance, but that religion was not Christianity. In some of the news articles, the school seems to attribute some of the "traditions" as honoring the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee people did not live in that part of Texas and Cherokee men do not wear that style of headdress.

So, who is it that they are trying to "honor" with their "traditions"?

I'm from South Texas and you are correct no one in South Texas would ever choose to wear that costume. Port Neches is in East Texas on the coast toward Louisiana. They are not honoring anyone or anything the just have a "tradition" of wearing racist costumes and belittling other races and ethnicities. My husband has family in East Texas. I've seen some crazy, hillbilly stuff around those parts.

 

[VandVsmama]

Yeah, that situation was pretty bad. Something tells me that high school won't be invited back to WDW again. I didn't see a whole lot of people clapping.

On a positive note, here's an uplifting example of an ACTUAL Native American musician who's a rapper and fancy dancer. He's from the Crow Nation. His wife hand-made all of the beading on his fancy dancer costume. HE should be invited next time instead of that high school marching band.

 

[goofyernmost]

I’m having a hard time understanding why this concept is so difficult for people to grasp. Every time something like this comes up, people get all defensive and start shouting about “snowflakes”, cancel culture, and how everyone today is easily offended.

But this particular topic has been addressed in great depth at least since the 1970s. 50+ years and some still can’t just accept that it’s wrong to use racist stereotypes for school mascots?


American Indian has been an accepted academic term for people indigenous to the Americas for a few decades.


I’m not sure why you’re so set on defending the name. The actual word “Indian” is not the issue. No one is trying to wipe American Indian people from history or eliminate their cultures by opposing this team’s name.

We are simply saying that using a racial term for a school mascot is wrong. It’s wrong because 1. It dehumanizes the people it references and 2. It perpetuates racist stereotypes.

Your third paragraph contradicted your 4th and part of the 5th one. If Indian is an accepted academic term then why isn't that OK to be used and why would being recognized in a positive manner not be a good thing. IT IS THE DAMN PEOPLE SHOUTING THAT IS THE INSULT NOT THE NAME INDIAN. I am part American Indian and I have no objection at all in the name being used in a respectful way. In fact, it keeps people aware of the history and plight of that culture. I'm trying to keep the culture alive not cancel it and I don't understand why so many people that don't have a dog in this race feel it is up to them to tell us what we feel about things. That is what is racist, along with screaming out stereotype ideas and not by mentioning a civilization in a respectful way for a school, building or sports team. Especially if it is a winning team. The Cleveland Indians team was not a problem it was the people entertaining by using stereotype references that became disrespectful. Other than that, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[tcufrog]

Why is it that when people try to defend calling Native Americans "Indians" they don't ask the actual Indians from Asia what they think about it?

 

[TLSnell1981]

And the school should be banned from any further appearances

It’s the NINTH time this routine has performed at WDW.

 

[Boopuff]

My kids attended a school with a bulldog mascot. No problem...right? Well not so much. Some parents didn't like the fact that the bulldog looked "menacing and scary" They wanted a cute, cuddly mascot. It went to a vote... Guess which mascot won. Another story: my dad attended Stanford. They used to be the "Indians" but they changed it to "the Cardinal" single not plural.. (or the fighting trees...LOL). My dad was one of the vocal alum that voted to change the name.

 

[bcla]

My kids attended a school with a bulldog mascot. No problem...right? Well not so much. Some parents didn't like the fact that the bulldog looked "menacing and scary" They wanted a cute, cuddly mascot. It went to a vote... Guess which mascot won.

They could have just changed whatever images they used. I've seen real bulldogs before. Every single one has been cuddly and friendly.

 

[ChrisFL]

whenever anyone uses the term "indian" to refer to native Americans it feels weird to me. I honestly haven't looked up the origin officially but I believe it was because the early explorers like Columbus thought he landed in India....so it's been the wrong term to use for centuries at this point.

Anyway, I'm in my 40's and I can see this thing not being considered a problem when I grew up, but it's definitely an era now where if the ACTUAL GROUP of people presented (Native Americans) have requested they not use these outdated, stereotypical mascots/imagery/dances, then they should STOP doing it. To be clear, the local native american population have asked the school several times to cease these actions over the years, but have been ignored.

 

[serenitynow]

It’s the NINTH time this routine has performed at WDW.

And it should NEVER happen again!

 

[tzolkin]

Your third paragraph contradicted your 4th and part of the 5th one. If Indian is an accepted academic term then why isn't that OK to be used and why would being recognized in a positive manner not be a good thing. IT IS THE DAMN PEOPLE SHOUTING THAT IS THE INSULT NOT THE NAME INDIAN. I am part American Indian and I have no objection at all in the name being used in a respectful way. In fact, it keeps people aware of the history and plight of that culture. I'm trying to keep the culture alive not cancel it and I don't understand why so many people that don't have a dog in this race feel it is up to them to tell us what we feel about things.

I absolutely did not contradict myself. I said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with the word "Indian", but that it (nor any other racial group) should never be used as a sports mascot.

Using a race as a mascot is absolutely not "recognizing them in a positive manner". It's the exact opposite. It's dehumanizing. There's really no "respectful" way to do it. What culture exactly are stereotypical Indian mascots "keeping alive"? You do realize that there are 574 federally recognized tribes-- all with completely different languages, traditions, clothing, etc.

Perhaps you are actually native, but I really have a hard time believing that you're actually involved with your culture and heritage yet seem to have no idea why it's wrong to use native stereotypes as mascots. This is not something that white people "with no dog in this race" are telling native people how they should feel. This has been a controversy that native people themselves have been actively trying to remove from schools for well over 50 years. I have been immersed in native culture my whole life, have a degree in Native American studies, and have worked with countless native artists over the years. Absolutely no one I know thinks Indian mascots are a positive, respectful way of keeping culture alive. Many have protested them, and some have even written books against them.

 

[smokeyblue]

Our local high school has a mascot name is the Redmen. At first was related to the red sweaters the team members wore back in the 20's, but morphed into a stereotypical Indian in a headdress mascot that was used for decades. In the late 90's as a compromise the school dropped the mascot, but kept the name. The topic came up again in the last few years and alumni rallied to keep the name and the school board voted to keep the name.

Personally, I was all for the change. I think it would have been a good example for young people to see how change isn't a bad thing, can be meaningful and doesn't need to be painful.

 

[tzolkin]

the school seems to attribute some of the "traditions" as honoring the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee people did not live in that part of Texas and Cherokee men do not wear that style of headdress.

Saying something/one is "Cherokee" is kind of joke/ eyeroll among many native people. "My great-great grandma was a Cherokee princess."

Why is it that when people try to defend calling Native Americans "Indians" they don't ask the actual Indians from Asia what they think about it?

I have never heard an (Asian) Indian person care.

As far as "defending", people indigenous to the Americas have been calling themselves Indians for centuries and many don't find anything wrong with the term.

Our local high school has a mascot name is the Redmen. At first was related to the red sweaters the team members wore back in the 20's, but morphed into a stereotypical Indian in a headdress mascot that was used for decades. In the late 90's as a compromise the school dropped the mascot, but kept the name. The topic came up again in the last few years and alumni rallied to keep the name and the school board voted to keep the name.

Personally, I was all for the change. I think it would have been a good example for young people to see how change isn't a bad thing, can be meaningful and doesn't need to be painful.

Many schools my parents, my children, and I have attended have had "Indian-related" names and mascots. Over the years they have all changed them. Some kept the name (Warriors or Raiders) but removed the mascot and native images/associations. That's why I'm surprised that some people think this is a new issue. My college changed the name and removed the mascot 25 years ago.

 

[Orion Nebula]

I remember... many years ago visiting a school (for some competition) that had a mascot "The Indians". They had one of those old "cigar store Indians" in the cafeteria I pray to goodness they have removed that thing by now.

This was a small school in central Illinois.

My city has two schools with "Indians" as their mascots. Both also have the cigar store Indians in their lobbies. The schools pretty much incorporate the "theme" into everything they do. For instance their news letter, "tribe up" as their motto / twitter hash, Indian mascots and in the junior high kids earn "Chief change" that they get to save up and spend on crap. There was some outrage over it a few years ago and it ended up all over the news, and the topic got fairly passionate in our town hall meetings. The biggest issue is the majority of the residents got super angry at the very idea of changing it. And during the town hall meeting the protesters got drowned out. On the news there was a girl who claimed she was 1/8th (seriously) Cherokee and was OK with it. As of today nothing has been changed.

And this is NOT a small school.

 

[nw6675]

I am shocked that a Peter Pan discussion has not morphed from this here. Other sites have started (restarted) the discussion, but I am not sure if those links are allowed here.

 

[Boopuff]

Our local high school are the “raiders” I had to look up the mascot: surprisingly it’s a pirate!