Did you see this: Marie Claire magazine posts "Should fatties get a room?" article.

[FireDancer]

I disagree- it means that the fashion industry is putting a standard out there that is IMPOSSIBLE to live up to.

Everyone should come up with their own standard. What I find attractive is what I find attractive and it has noting to do with who is on the cover of a fashion magazine. The same goes for self image. My self image is based on what I want to look like, not what a magazine tells me I want to look like.

Contrary to the view here a woman can be athletic and thin without appearing anorexic like they do on many fashion magazines. Instead of using skin and bones fashion models as the counter to the obesity problem, which merely trading one extreme for another, use women like Kara Goucher, Chrissie Wellington, Emma Snowsill, Erin Densham, Desiree Ficker, or Haley Cope who go to show that one can be healthy and not in danger of starving to death. This would be the happy medium, not the other extreme of photoshopped cover models.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Everyone should come up with their own standard. What I find attractive is what I find attractive and it has noting to do with who is on the cover of a fashion magazine. The same goes for self image. My self image is based on what I want to look like, not what a magazine tells me I want to look like.

Contrary to the view here a woman can be athletic and thin without appearing anorexic like they do on many fashion magazines. Instead of using skin and bones fashion models as the counter to the obesity problem, which merely trading one extreme for another, use women like Kara Goucher, Chrissie Wellington, Emma Snowsill, Erin Densham, Desiree Ficker, or Haley Cope who go to show that one can be healthy and not in danger of starving to death. This would be the happy medium, not the other extreme of photoshopped cover models.

Yes, working mothers around the globe can take heart that a "happy medium" is being a track and field athlete.

 

[lisaviolet]

I have something to say from yesterday. I am no means speaking for Robin. She spoke and can't do JUST FINE. Obviously. And I was on my own wavelength and I really have no idea if we were on the same one. I will not assume.

I said what my issue was with the post that went back and forth.

However, this morning I have more to say about my thoughts.

Bigotry can happen to anyone.

However, the fact of the matter is the majority of bigotry is not against whites at all. Yes you can be white and poor - and white and overweight - and white and disabled - and white and gay etc. But regardless bigotry has an ugly history - AND TODAY - in North America against non-whites every single day.

And firedancer you posted the definition and how your example was not. I said of course not sometimes - but often it's cloaked in those kind of statements. That the cloaking is very common way of not owning up to our faults and issues.

So here's the kicker. It's like a shaking of the head moment for a white male or any white person to talk like they know the ins and outs - not to talk about it but to state that you know what isn't bigotry.

It just is. Do you have a right to state your points? Feel your points? Debate it?

ABSOLUTELY.

But it's human to sigh about it on the other side. It is.

Am I hypocrite? Maybe. Because I stated my thoughts too. But I stated on the side that I know in my heart that there are many that don't really hate PDA in general - don't really like immigrants. Because I've listened intently. I've seen it face on. I've worked for years with black teenagers and other non-white students. I've heard their stories - I've seen it in action. And most importantly to this discussion heard the offenders comments being sugar coated with that kind of subtle talk - the kind we were discussing. (And this is where I want to say that I jump on issues that clearly not based in bigotry - as in I don't give me I'm racist you're late and I don't care if you're pink, purple or polka dotted you're late! - but late is not the same of what we were discussing)

At one point I thought I was gay. Unfortunately, I'm not. . And I do mean unfortunately. So I've lived through my partner is "none of my business" but your husband and wife and girlfriend are? Endlessly. Sex included in theirs at times.

And I've seen gay students suffer in very subtle ways that you simply can not understand FULLY if you're not. We/You (in general terms) just can't.

But at the same time we are a continent of know it alls. We are. Myself included. We are a continent of non-listeners. I think it's one of the biggest issues in the world. We are so quick to state our opinions before full taking in the stories of those who actually face these issues every single day. That goes way beyond anything that we're talking about today. And you and I (including my story and possibly yours firedancer - I would never assume I know where you've walked) know little about bigotry compared to some others. Compared to. VERY LITTLE despite our stories because of our skin. And I think - and I don't speak for Robin - it stings for people to talk about it like they do know when it's not occuring - when they don't face it DAILY. That's a very human reaction.

It goes for everything.

I have a friend who lost her daughter in a car crash. I am so careful to simply hear her and not make any blanket statements. (I do screw up sometimes) I lost her too. I LOVED her and ache that she's not here but I do realize I know nada about being a mother who lost her baby girl. Nada. Therefore despite my pain I can never truly know.

I am all for discussing and open communication and I've already stated that I really feel until we admit and all our own issues and crap then nothing will change.

Okay, done.

And this is why I spend little time on the CB. I have no issue disagreeing and going back and forth. But I HATE when parts of my writing are taken out of context. Things I can't control but I hate regardless.

 

[hambirg]

The more muscular you are the less accurate BMI becomes. The reason that those top two people may be morbidly obese according to BMI but not in reality is because BMI uses only measurement and weight and makes no account for actual body composition.

If a person is one of the normal old overweight sedentary Americans then BMI can be used as a guide but should not be treated as definitive. If someone with no muscle tone and a gut has the exact same BMI as the top photo they could very well be morbidly obese while that particular person isn't because one has much more of their weight coming from muscle and the other has it coming from fat.

I find it at least an over simplification and in reality disingenuous to claim that obesity or morbid obesity is not really that hard of a threshold to reach because according to BMI people who aren't obese are labeled as such. It is only one tool for determining body type and one that in certain situations is known to produce false positives. In that case labeling someone like the first two photos obese based on a method that is prone to mis-diagnose their body type is a way to shift the focus from the obesity onto the faulty measurement tool.

Someone with some common sense can look at a muscular person with 8% body fat and know they are not obese while that same person should be able to look at someone who looks like Precious and know they are.

Also, that last picture was photoshopped so it is meaningless. I can make the fatest person on Earth into a stick figure in photoshop but it would mean nothing.

That was the point of the last picture! Why on earth do they feel the need to photoshop the picture of a perfectly healthy, beautiful girl and morph into some beyond disgustingly weird?

As far as the BMI, it goes both ways though. You can have people that are skinny fat. Just because the chart says they are at an acceptable body weight doesn't mean that they are healthy, or worse, healthier than somebody who has a BMI of say 40. And I don 't think it's an oversimplification. Have you ever seen a body builder when they are bulking? They can look fat and often do. But what BMI doesn't tell you is the actual composition under that layer of bulk. We don't really know until we do a body composition test. Looks can be deceiving. I guess that that's my point. You can also have some one that looks fairly height weight proportional who is actually carrying an unhealthy ratio of fat to lean body mass.

 

[FireDancer]

Yes, working mothers around the globe can take heart that a "happy medium" is being a track and field athlete.

There are plenty of women I run with or at our local Tri club who have the same bodies but I'm not posting pics of them. I have no issues posting pics of professionals though. The overall female winner of the race I did on Sunday was 39, had her kid with her, and you still actually make out her abdominal muscles. It is possible and, yes, I would find that a happy medium.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

There are plenty of people I run with or at our local Tri club who have the same bodies but I'm not posting pics of them. I have no issues posting pics of professionals though.

Dude, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume you are unmarried and childless. And that running is a big part of your life (one can tell through your siggies).

Some of us work many hours a week and have small children to care for as well. We are lucky if we can shower every day let alone prance off to run a marathon and then pose for pictures in bikinis.

eta: there's a reason you know of ONE woman who did it and not loads. Because it's really, really hard. My knees are shot due to my running, better hope yours hold up. Get back to me in 20 or so years and we'll see how well you make out. Oh, and I'm assuming you don't have a job that requires long hours during the week and work on weekends too.

 

[FireDancer]

Dude, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume you are unmarried and childless. And that running is a big part of your life (one can tell through your siggies).

Some of us work many hours a week and have small children to care for as well. We are lucky if we can shower every day let alone prance off to run a marathon and then pose for pictures in bikinis.

I was editing that post to add an example of a woman with a child who was able to do exactly what I did. In fact she beat me. And that is only one example of many.

I line up at many a run next to folks, many faster then I, who have kids. Both the gyms I go to have childcare centers filled with kids. The other three people who are doing the marathon with me all work full time and have multiple kids (two have 2 and one has 3). The thread on the WISH about the race is filled with married working parents along with those who don't have kids.

If you choose to make fitness a priority it will be.

ETA: I have a full time job and am on call for emergencies on the weekends. I'm the I.T. director of my company and if a server crashes I am here. I leave work at work though when I can and we have a culture here of not letting work creep into our non-work lives which is promoted from the top down.

 

[Magpie]

BTW guys, you don't have to be an athlete to have a nice trim "happy-medium" type bod!

I make do with lucky genetics, and an inability to drive which forces me to walk a lot. I probably wouldn't eat right, except I have to keep my husband healthy - so I actually eat very well. I don't "work out", I've got two kids, and I still look great in a bikini.

I don't know what size I am, but I suspect I'd be fat by fashion standards and thin by everyone else's. I'm 5'7'', 130 lbs, and my jeans range in size from 9 to 14, depending on the brand. I get veeery grumpy when people say those are "plus sizes"!

 

[lilmissbehaved]

Dude, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume you are unmarried and childless. And that running is a big part of your life (one can tell through your siggies).

Some of us work many hours a week and have small children to care for as well. We are lucky if we can shower every day let alone prance off to run a marathon and then pose for pictures in bikinis.

eta: there's a reason you know of ONE woman who did it and not loads. Because it's really, really hard. My knees are shot due to my running, better hope yours hold up. Get back to me in 20 or so years and we'll see how well you make out. Oh, and I'm assuming you don't have a job that requires long hours during the week and work on weekends too.

I've been reading these posts and sitting on my hands trying not to respond.... but this finally did it for me..!! I'm gonna keep it short so I don't get bashed.

I have been a size 22, and i have been a size 2.. and it's hard as hell-- I know-- and I've seen it from every angle. Right now I'm very happy with my body at 5'1 and a size 6. I have 2 small kids-- 7 and 2.. and I work 40+ hours a week as a director of Customer Service for an international company... I have no family in my state to help .

It's entirely possible to live my life AND go to the gym and have a healthy body.. Is it easy? No. Do I have to get up early or stay up late to fit in my hours at the gym? Yes. It's about making it a priority.... I'm not sure how eyerolling and assuming a lot about someone's lifestyle is really going to get this thread anywhere. So really to assume that because someone makes their wellbeing one of their priorities that they don't know what it's like to work hard and have a family is just as the attitude you are complaining about in this article.

 

[TinklednPants]

I've been reading these posts and sitting on my hands trying not to respond.... but this finally did it for me..!! I'm gonna keep it short so I don't get bashed.

I have been a size 22, and i have been a size 2.. and it's hard as hell-- I know-- and I've seen it from every angle. Right now I'm very happy with my body at 5'1 and a size 6. I have 2 small kids-- 7 and 2.. and I work 40+ hours a week as a director of Customer Service for an international company... I have no family in my state to help .

It's entirely possible to live my life AND go to the gym and have a healthy body.. Is it easy? No. Do I have to get up early or stay up late to fit in my hours at the gym? Yes. It's about making it a priority.... I'm not sure how eyerolling and assuming a lot about someone's lifestyle is really going to get this thread anywhere. So really to assume that because someone makes their wellbeing one of their priorities that they don't know what it's like to work hard and have a family is just as the attitude you are complaining about in this article.

Thank you. I may be flamed as well but it always seems that those with extra pounds also have an abundance of excuses.

 

[FireDancer]

I've been reading these posts and sitting on my hands trying not to respond.... but this finally did it for me..!! I'm gonna keep it short so I don't get bashed.

I have been a size 22, and i have been a size 2.. and it's hard as hell-- I know-- and I've seen it from every angle. Right now I'm very happy with my body at 5'1 and a size 6. I have 2 small kids-- 7 and 2.. and I work 40+ hours a week as a director of Customer Service for an international company... I have no family in my state to help .

It's entirely possible to live my life AND go to the gym and have a healthy body.. Is it easy? No. Do I have to get up early or stay up late to fit in my hours at the gym? Yes. It's about making it a priority.... I'm not sure how eyerolling and assuming a lot about someone's lifestyle is really going to get this thread anywhere. So really to assume that because someone makes their wellbeing one of their priorities that they don't know what it's like to work hard and have a family is just as the attitude you are complaining about in this article.

You are a perfect example people whom I see every day. If anyone wants to make fitness and health a priority they can even if it is hard. It is easy to blame circumstances and in a minority of cases like physical disability or medical conditions it may be the case. In many others though it is just a choice to not find a way to fit it in.

 

[FergieTCat]

Never mind. And if I'm requoted before I delete this, I am not answering.

 

[FireDancer]

How do you know that someone who looks to be a size 18 wasn't a size 22 a few months ago? You don't.

Because someone who was getting themselves healthier would realize it is possible as opposed to pretend that their particular circumstance is out of their control and post that opinion on a message board.

 

[FergieTCat]

Because someone who was getting themselves healthier would realize it is possible as opposed to pretend that their particular circumstance is out of their control.

I take back my previous post.

My point was (why am I always starting my replies to you with that?) that a person can be fat, but you have no idea the circumstances. Maybe they just lost 100 pounds. You can't tell anything about a person by their weight.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, Firedancer, if you, or others, are lucky and blessed enough to be a woman, a mom, and a fit and trim 'running' athlete... (Wonder Woman ) then hey...

Maybe we should all

But I agree with others that you have NOW crossed the same line that the Author of that blog crossed....

NOTE:
I was with her about halfway...
And I do think she has a right to her feelings/opinions....
I say, let her blog whatever crap she wants to.... Who cares...

You are free to have whatever opinions you wish...
But, once you make assumptions and become judgemental about a class of people....
Then, that's when all bets are off.
That's when, for me, all respect for a person goes out the door.

I can tell you with all 100% certainty that am NOT, and never have been, physically (or financially) able to, as you might say, 'Do it all..... Have it all......'
I think it is safe to assume that there is a very large percentage of woman who would also fall into this category.
And, another person's haughty judgemental attitude will do absolutely nothing to increase my capacities.

I am NOT thin....
I also am one who feels that in MOST cases, morbid obesity comes down to personal issues and priorities (no other 'excuses')
I agree with the author of that blog in that I do not see it as anything that I would 'wish' to watch.
A person has a right to their feelings, what they might find attractive or unattractive....

But, when it comes down to those who go further than that with blanket judgements prejudices....
That's when it just gets 'wrong'.

 

[FireDancer]

My point was (why am I always starting my replies to you with that?) that a person can appear to be fat, but you have no idea the circumstances. You are assuming that they are not "working on their weight".

Of course they can, I agree with you. I'm not making that assumption. I am speaking specifically towards the people responding here that claim it is impossible to balance health and life and those people exclusively. Nothing more.

I don't have to make assumptions when people post their feelings and opinions, I know.

I'm not applying it to the over weight population in general but the subset of that population who throw their hands up and say there is nothing they can do about it. Even if they try their hardest and fail at least they made the effort. I have way more respect for those that try and fail at anything then just sit on the sidelines and wish they could.

 

[FergieTCat]

Of course they can, I agree with you. I'm not making that assumption. I am speaking specifically towards the people responding here that claim it is impossible to balance health and life and those people exclusively. Nothing more.

I don't have to make assumptions when people post their feelings and opinions, I know.

I'm not applying it to the over weight population in general but the subset of that population who throw their hands up and say there is nothing they can do about it. Even if they try their hardest and fail at least they made the effort. I have way more respect for those that try and fail at anything then just sit on the sidelines and wish they could.

Then I give you more credit than I originally did.

Others around here, not so much.

 

[Wishing on a star]

it is impossible to balance health and life and those people exclusively.

Okay then, I will give you the small benefit of the doubt here.

But, know that YES, for many women, there ARE factors in their health and their life that are not within their control.

And, also know, that some of the comments in your prior post do indeed come off in a negative way.

Either the writing is on the wall, or choose your words more carefully.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Of course they can, I agree with you. I'm not making that assumption. I am speaking specifically towards the people responding here that claim it is impossible to balance health and life and those people exclusively. Nothing more.

I don't have to make assumptions when people post their feelings and opinions, I know.

I'm not applying it to the over weight population in general but the subset of that population who throw their hands up and say there is nothing they can do about it. Even if they try their hardest and fail at least they made the effort. I have way more respect for those that try and fail at anything then just sit on the sidelines and wish they could.

I never said it was impossible. I said it was hard.

And you posting pictures of those women as an example of a "happy medium" is flat-out ridiculous. Those were professional athletes and many of them did not look all that different than what you see in magazines. Particularly the one who looked like she had a **** job or two.

By the way, I am not even overweight. I have a normal BMI. I was hugely fit and a gym rat before having kids. And now I am lucky to get a requisite walk for 30 minutes a day. I have a 3.5 year old and a one year old. Who still nurses all day long which is how I can get away with the calories I consume, I guess.

Now, when I was spending two hours a day a the gym 3 or 4 times a week, I looked a lot like the pictures you posted. If I do say so myself. Now I am an OK weight but nowhere near as fit as I used to be and yes, I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME. So before you chastise me thinking "Oh, poor overweight girl making excuses" maybe you should try thinking about circumstances other than your own. Like what about poor people, or people who cannot find a job or afford to shop for the expensive healthy foods. Look at the economy much? Not everyone is as privileged as you.

Oh, but I guess you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and all that. Well, don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I've been reading these posts and sitting on my hands trying not to respond.... but this finally did it for me..!! I'm gonna keep it short so I don't get bashed.

I have been a size 22, and i have been a size 2.. and it's hard as hell-- I know-- and I've seen it from every angle. Right now I'm very happy with my body at 5'1 and a size 6. I have 2 small kids-- 7 and 2.. and I work 40+ hours a week as a director of Customer Service for an international company... I have no family in my state to help .

It's entirely possible to live my life AND go to the gym and have a healthy body.. Is it easy? No. Do I have to get up early or stay up late to fit in my hours at the gym? Yes. It's about making it a priority.... I'm not sure how eyerolling and assuming a lot about someone's lifestyle is really going to get this thread anywhere. So really to assume that because someone makes their wellbeing one of their priorities that they don't know what it's like to work hard and have a family is just as the attitude you are complaining about in this article.

Wow, an entire post devoted to your awesomeness. Well done you.

At the moment I prefer to spend the hours I used to sweat in a gym with my kids instead of dumping them with a babysitter. When they're older, sure I'll go back. But not enough to look like Firedancer's "happy medium." I'm still too busy laughing about it. But whatever burns calories.

eta: Oh, wow 40 plus hours a week. Try doubling that and that's what my husband works. He's able to squeeze in a basketball league once a week. If he's lucky.