Democrat calls for the Draft

[jeanadave]

Ignorant and stupid do not mean the same thing. Expressing an opinion that a comment is ignorant is not name calling.

I guess we'll just have to disagree about that.

Ignorant: Lacking in knowledge or training

Stupid: Lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull


Seems quite a bit different to me. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Give me a break! I can't believe you even typed that!

Why?? I'm serious. He has a LOT of venom. Be reasonable. I know it's not PC to act like war protesters of the Vietnam era and openly not support our troops, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that behind closed doors there aren't plenty of people today that have that same attitude.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I'll answer. The military has said, repeatedly, that they don't need a draft.

And people who go off and tattle because someone called them a name are in no position to make policy on strategy.

They say they don't need a draft because the politicians know they'd be voted out en masse if they support one.

But it's okay for people who were big chickenhawks during Vietnam to make policy and strategy that has killed thousands and wounded hundreds of thousands. I have problems with your logic.

 

[Judge Smails]

Are you really?? What about the ones who support the war, and I'm guessing there are many?? I'm just asking because you seem to have so much contempt for those who support the war, so I would assume it would include those serving who also support it. Would you have sympathy for a soldier and/or his family who lost his life that supported the war, or would you just feel that he got what he deserved??

Of course I support the troops that serve. I believe they are stuck in the middle. I think it is criminal to be sent to fight and die based on lies and incompetence.

Which is more supportive of the troops.... Wanting to get them home ASAP and keep them alive or supporting "Stay the Course" which gets them killed?

I'm guessing there are many

Instead of guessing how about giving us some hard figures..other than that it is only a guess

 

[JennyMominRI]

Who cheers for everyone else to get their heads blown off?

I support the war, but have never eaten a pork rind, do not care for beer, and have never watched cars go around and around for more than about 20 seconds.

I.

I dont support thewar but I used to love pork rinds...Thats wrong in so many ways

 

[Cool-Beans]

They say they don't need a draft because the politicians know they'd be voted out en masse if they support one.

But it's okay for people who were big chickenhawks during Vietnam to make policy and strategy that has killed thousands and wounded hundreds of thousands. I have problems with your logic.

We aren't talking about Vietflippinnam. We're talking about now.

Are you saying the military is lying when they say they don't need a draft in order to protect certain politicians from being voted out?

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Why?? I'm serious. He has a LOT of venom. Be reasonable. I know it's not PC to act like war protesters of the Vietnam era and openly not support our troops, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that behind closed doors there aren't plenty of people today that have that same attitude.

What's in the water you're drinking, kid? I protested the war in Vietnam for the same reason I protest this war. People are dying for a bunch of political BS that doesn't mean anything. I have always openly supported the troops and have shown it by trying to keep them from being cannon fodder for the likes of George W Bush and his bullcrap war.

Judge Smails feels strongly - as do I - that those who support the war ought to be fighting it or paying for it or sending their children to fight it. Sure he has a lot of venom. Have you seen closeup what war does to human beings?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm a girl and I'm too old.

I find your comments disgusting. When are you going to head over to a bar where the military guys hang out and start spewing this crap?

Im a girl and I went to boot camp with a 38 YO women in 1988..It took wavers, but she got in...She was the oldest woman to join the Marines at the time..She went to her sons bootcamp graduation and she decided she wanted to be a Marine too

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Of course I support the troops that serve. I believe they are stuck in the middle. I think it is criminal to be sent to fight and die based on lies and incompetence.

Which is more supportive of the troops.... Wanting to get them home ASAP and keep them alive or supporting "Stay the Course" which gets them killed?



Instead of guessing how about giving us some hard figures..other than that it is only a guess

Thanks, but I guess I'll just express myself however I want without getting into a pissing contest. If I did provide figures it wouldn't change your mind anyway, but I'm just guessing. If my opinions lose credibility with you based upon that, well then I guess I'll just have to live with that.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

We aren't talking about Vietflippinnam. We're talking about now.

Are you saying the military is lying when they say they don't need a draft in order to protect certain politicians from being voted out?

Oh yes we are talking about Vietnam (and there was nothing fllippin about it). The men (and I use the term loosely here) who were and are so vehemently proud of sending our young people into harms way are the same people who were too busy to serve or got Daddy's pals to hide him in Alabama or showed the draft board their anal abcesses during Vietnam.

And, of course, the generals lie. They can only say what the Secretary of Defense allows them to say.

 

[Saffron]

Sherry ... I didn't take anything you said out of context. You said nothing in your post I was referring to about there not being a draft today so this argument is mute. You said:

I just don't agree with the arguement of dragging the children in the middle of the debate. I understand that those against the war are trying to make a point by saying if you're not willing to offer your child as a sacrifice, then you have no business supporting the war. However, that reasoning just does not seem logical to me.

This thread is all about efforts being brought forth to reinstitute the draft. I'm not sure why anyone thinks because we don't have a draft at this minute, the questions posed about your children being drafted is somehow irrelevent to the thread.

Is IS all about those of you who have been championing the war for the last three years and how you feel about it.

 

[TCPluto]

WOW


Calling someone an idiot is out of bounds.

Well, considering what you say to everyone who disagrees with you, yes, it is out of bounds for you to try and say it's offensive.

It's about the most hypocritical post I've ever seen.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I think it's clear that Rangel and the rest of the Democrats have absolutely no plans to *actually* institute a draft. I think the point, however, is that a reasonable threat of a draft sure would make people evaulate how much the support the war and future possible conflicts. I think the point is that most Americans would not support a draft even if it were the case that a draft was necessary to keep up our troop levels or increase our success. That is, they want to have the war, but not if war comes along with the draft. By making people choose between no draft at all and war & draft as a package, people are made to decide exactly how important the war is to them.

It seems to me if a war isn't worth a draft then it must not be very important. And as others have pointed out, people who support the war but are not currently serving themselves (or do not have their own children, siblings, friends, nieces, nephews, etc.) serving, would have to decide how important the war is to them. Is it worth the risk of their own life--or the lives of their children? Of course for some people the answer is yes. The point, however, is that for many people who currently support the war, the answer is might be "no"--they might rather walk out of Iraq today than risk their child's life (or their own).

If someone is of the opinion that they are very pro-war so long as there is no draft, and their opposition to the draft is largely based on their own concern for themselves or their loved ones that seems problematic to me. If it ain't worth risking my life over, then I don't feel I have the right to support others being forced to risk their lives over it.

ETA: Many people have pointed out that the military says it doesn't need a draft, and that in itself is a reason to oppose the draft. So let's use a hypothetical: suppose today the military said, "Actually, we probably could do a better job if only we had more troops." If that were the case would people who currently support the war suddenly have a change of heart when they heard a draft was needed?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

What's in the water you're drinking, kid? I protested the war in Vietnam for the same reason I protest this war. People are dying for a bunch of political BS that doesn't mean anything. I have always openly supported the troops and have shown it by trying to keep them from being cannon fodder for the likes of George W Bush and his bullcrap war.

Judge Smails feels strongly - as do I - that those who support the war ought to be fighting it or paying for it or sending their children to fight it. Sure he has a lot of venom. Have you seen closeup what war does to human beings?

Excuse me, but do you have a problem with me asking that question to clarify which side of the fence he is on?? Would you deny that there are people who don't support our troops?? Now that would just be ignorant thinking. My water is fine; how is yours??

 

[JennyMominRI]

For those of you who still believe we don't 'need' a draft to continue Bush's war let me disavow you of that notion. My nephew has just completed his second tour of duty in Iraq and will be leaving the USMC soon when his 4 years are up. However he's already been told by many of his pals - who were called up again AFTER their original 4 years was over for what's called the "individual ready reserve" - that he can't count on actually leaving the Marine Corps. How do you feel about that? He signed up for four years and may not be allowed to leave the service for who knows how long because there aren't people to take his place. The current military is stretched to the limit. Many units and individual service members have been sent to war three times. How many more times must they leave their families?
.

It's unfortunate,but that's how it works..It's nothing new.Its been that way for a long time..When you sign up you sign up for 8 years with either 2 ,4 or 6 years of active duty,the rest is the IRR Inactive Ready Reserves.. You can be recalled during that time..You should not sign up if you arent prepared for the possobility of serving 8 years.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Im a girl and I went to boot camp with a 38 YO women in 1988..It took wavers,but she got iin...She was theoldest woman to join at the time..She went to her sons bootcamp graduation and she decided she wanted to be a Marine too

When the military is calling for older women to leave their children, I'll go. But they'll have to be pretty hard up to want me!

Until then, I'll stay here and send care packages.

 

[JennyMominRI]

There are plenty of Vets who would be willing to back the Judge 100%.

Yuppers

 

[Uncle Remus]

Im a girl and I went to boot camp with a 38 YO women in 1988..It took wavers,but she got iin...She was theoldest woman to join at the time..She went to her sons bootcamp graduation and she decided she wanted to be a Marine too

PeaceMaker, I'm so glad to see you.
I'm outta here, I can't take the pablum
pukin' patriots so I'm gonna go take
a shower to get it off me.
Good Luck crazyforgoofy, Judge,
and PeaceMaker.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I think it's clear that Rangel and the rest of the Democrats have absolutely no plans to *actually* institute a draft. I think the point, however, is that a reasonable threat of a draft sure would make people evaulate how much the support the war and future possible conflicts. I think the point is that most Americans would not support a draft even if it were the case that a draft was necessary to keep up our troop levels or increase our success. That is, they want to have the war, but not if war comes along with the draft. By making people choose between no draft at all and war & draft as a package, people are made to decide exactly how important the war is to them.

It seems to me if a war isn't worth a draft then it must not be very important. And as others have pointed out, people who support the war but are not currently serving themselves (or do not have their own children, siblings, friends, nieces, nephews, etc.) serving, would have to decide how important the war is to them. Is it worth the risk of their own life--or the lives of their children? Of course for some people the answer is yes. The point, however, is that for many people who currently support the war, the answer is might be "no"--they might rather walk out of Iraq today than risk their child's life (or their own).

If someone is of the opinion that they are very pro-war so long as there is no draft, and their opposition to the draft is largely based on their own concern for themselves or their loved ones that seems problematic to me. If it ain't worth risking my life over, then I don't feel I have the right to support others being forced to risk their lives over it.

I think people are concerned that with a draft, and forcing people to serve their country, that it may result in a force that is not as effective.

 

[TCPluto]

Ignorant: Lacking in knowledge or training

Stupid: Lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull


Seems quite a bit different to me. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

Please, do not foul up Ecle's arguement with a bunch of actual fact. Nothing makes her camp more angry..