DEBATE: When does the "Disney Experience" cease to exist?

[colleen costello]

Sorry, Baron.. did not mean to argue that YOU had said this. By "your" I should have said "Y'all" including all the folks who responded to you. I have just read this in different places, at different times, on the boards in general... comments that "considering inflation, Disney is no more expensive than it was..." and what I was saying was simply "but it SEEMS like it is!"

Perhaps the bill seemed smaller because I was a kid and wasn't paying it? Perhaps it was also because my Dad always had the attitude "Hey -- it's vacation -- don't worry about what it costs!"
I love being in "the World" -- but there is a lot there we simply don't do because prices are so high. We ate off grounds a lot during our last visit (Pizzeria Uno and Perkins) and shopped for snacks to eat in our room. I pack a lot of stuff because I know I will pay dearly for anything we forget. Part of bringing our own vehicle is so we can get off-property to shop! I even packed pool toys because tubes at Stormalong Bay were renting for $10 apiece! I just feel like no matter where I turn, I am going to need a lot more money than I have.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK!! Clean up time!! I finally have a few moments to see if I missed anything and it turns out, I DID!!!

First to ohanafamily

BTW, I have a few addresses for your list, should I PM them to you

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!

I’ll update them as soon as possible. I want to keep the list current!!!


Next to montessori

It's like that Aladdin ride in the middle of Adventureland. It simply doesn't belong.

EXACTLY!!! But is this subjective or objective? To me most of the world (including Disney is NOT black and white, but varying shades of gray. So, I feel that this particular item is subjective, but shaded so dark that it is very hard to argue that it isn’t objective!! It’s like looking at a Christmas tree, all decorated and pretty, almost professional, and then some lunkhead puts a GIANT, NEON ornament on the second to top branch! Yep! It sure is a Christmas decoration!! There is no way to deny it! No arguement at all!! BUT!!! NO, NO, NO!!!! It does NOT belong!!!



Mr. Kidds:

Maybe it is like a trip to New York City. You could stay on Park Avenue in the 30's, or you could stay on Park Avenue in the 130's. Both are New York through and through, but they are very different experiences. Each of those experiences is rich in detail, but they are very different details. Many would view one as "less", but it all depends on how you look at it

I could not disagree more!!! What you’re saying is it all comes down to theme. If the theme is good then nothing else matters!!! I DISAGREE!!!! Quality still matters!! And Park Avenue in the 30’s represents QUALITY!! Perhaps even Disney quality. Park Avenue in the 130’s DOES NOT!!!! (gee I hope I got that right from the two times in New York!!)

Mr. Head! Always a pleasure to speak to a fellow sesquipedalian!! Although to be honest, the ease in which you employ a polysyllabic vocabulary really blows me away!! Never pedantic. Always elucidating! (Howz 'bout dat fer learnin' me some!! )

Finally, I'm fairly certain the phrase "more and more" was reasonably confluent with "eschew." I'd intended to portray a trend towards less, not an abrupt cessation.

Ditto!!!

I see the very creation of the Moderates and the Values as milestones along Disney's trail o' eschewment. The moderate and value resorts are _examples_ of putting less Disney into the product, not reasons to forgive putting less Disney into the product.

Ditto!!


colleen costello

I have just read this in different places, at different times, on the boards in general... comments that "considering inflation, Disney is no more expensive than it was..." and what I was saying was simply "but it SEEMS like it is!"

It SEEMS like it is, well... Cause it is!!! Period!! Plain and simple!!

Those “other” comments you have heard are wrong!! Period!! Plain and simple!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Just one thing to add........

Since 1991 we have stayed in just about every Disney resort - 'deluxe', 'moderate', and 'value', and we have NEVER, I repeat NEVER paid more than $200 a night - GF included. Call it discounts that were 'never' available, call it whatever you want, but that is a pretty telling statement. As much as Mr. Baron would like to say that an appropriately inflated 1971 rate equals $159 it just isn't true. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, you know - those guys who develop the CPI which Baron's number is based on, along with a plethora of other data, say that the rate of lodging inflation is HIGHER than the CPI. That's the fact, Jack.

Then again, if someone says it is wrong, it must be - the facts be damned .

 

[Captain Crook]

Well there you go again Baron Von Wordiness, you take something like the addition of Aladdin in Adventureland and ADMIT that it's subjective but then ridicule, rationalize and capitalize until anyone with a differing POV looks like an imbecile. Well, once again I'm that imbicile . The Agrabah section and the Aladdin ride are a perfect fit right smack dab in an area where Disney heretofore needed to create traffic. The ride itself is well themed, pretty & fun for the kiddies (Before Aladdin it was a great big pedestrian circle...OOOOAhhhhhh...

Your Christmas tree analogy makes absolutely no sense. WDW is not nearly as 'like' as a Christmas tree whereby one atyipical ornament would be out of place. Rather, Disney is itself full of atypical ornaments that make up the entire Chritmas season perhaps... It seems that any tinkering with anything that Walt created meets with boo's & hisses unless it were an E ticket and even they aren't met with all around acceptance. I offer TT & RnR as proof. Two rides that if Walt had created or "visioned" would be revered and worshipped but alas they were brought to Disney by the wrong fellow.

On to Mr. Kidds, why is it that his NY CIty anlogy makes perfect sense to me? It seems the sides are still arguing from different viewpoints...Mr. Kidds is far and away the best debator on this board & my hat is off to you sir!!!

As to the prolific pontificators...The key to this wonderful language is the ability to properly verbalize your thought so that the majority of the audience will understand what you're saying...Unless the argument that you are putting forth is mostly nonsense and needs to be hidden behind voluble diction. ...

 

[Patch'sD]

With all the cuts to the perks, that is when the magic left my being. I felt as if Disney was robbing me by having me pay top dollar for a room that was basically just slept in. I found that the place down the road was doing more for the guest and opted to stay there and just become a day visitor.

I have to disagree with comparing present rack rates to rack rates of 1971. In 1971 with three hotels they did not need discounts the Hotels were booked for two years in advance. I firmly believe that Disney Resorts today the Norm is the Off Peak Value Season rate, and if a room is booked at the rack rate that just a couple bucks extra in ME's pocket. It's sort of like going to Sears, Some people will pay the ticket price, others will look at the last weeks sale tag and demand that price. The smart consumer wins these days.

As for the themeing of the Hotels. I have not been to the World since 2000, so I can not offer an opinion on Pop Century. But during my 1999 trip, ( In 2000 I was a very satisfied guest of the theme park down the road) We stayed on site for 10 days and I never saw the All Star Hotels. I wasn't staying there, never saw it, didn't bother me. The immersion was complete. I saw the Swan and Dolphin Hotels every day, which I think are very tacky, but to me it is part of Disney, did it bother me, no. I saw hundreds of busses all over the place, but that didn't bother me. My focus was on the theme parks and having a ball with my family, which we did.

I feel that by adding these Hotels, Disney has made the magic available to a few more folks at a competitive . If All Stars and Pop Century where not built how many more Day's Inns and Super 8's would be built down the road.


My main complaint is Disney cut back on the little things that made staying at the resort like you were something special. I believe they used to call this the Disney “Insider” The Surprise mornings or Extended Entry ( No Charge), Preferred Seating at the Restaurants, The free shipping back to your room, free timely transportation, and of course nicely landscaped themed resort hotels. Now you have the first and the last, transportation is free but no longer timely.

So I have made a decision to stay at the resort down the block that provides all that Disney used to provide and then some. When and if Disney starts giving some things back will I return. But if people still want to pay top dollar for not as much as they used to get, it may be a long time for me.

 

[colleen costello]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here stayed at Portofino Bay Hotel over at Universal? I have heard it is lovely. Is the experience there on par with the Polynesian or Contemporary? And what is the deal with staying there and getting "front of the line" tickets? Is is a deal like fastpass? We have not done Universal yet -- I have small kids and we are not thrill-ride fans -- but I am curious. I also imagine it is quite expensive there per night.

 

[raidermatt]

With regard to the Carpets...

I tend to agree with Baron that the colors are harsh when compared to the surrounding area, and I would feel better about it if it were toned a bit with more "realistic" colors.

However, I do see this one as being subjective. I can see how it does fit in spirit with the area.

My issues with it are more when its taken in combination with the new JIYI, PW and TS, and most of what's at DCA. Is this the best they can do? No, not EVERY new attraction has to be a knock your socks off E ticket. Sometimes a well-themed, pleasant C or D is fine, like Aladdin. But adding Aladdin and TS within a year of each other just shows a complete lack of effort.


As far as comparing resort rates, I suppose if we want to really settle this, we need the actual average rates paid in 1972 and now.

DK, its great that you NEVER paid more than $200 for any WDW resort, but how does that compare to what the AVERAGE guest pays today? That's really the issue. I know we don't have those numbers, but I think you'd have to agree that $159 is probably below the average rate actually paid for a deluxe, particularly in heavier seasons. (I just returned from a resort in Kauai that has rack rates over $500 per night, so I completely understand that there is a difference between rack rates and what people actually pay, since we paid a total of $325 for 8 nights...)

And Baron admits that the $32 is an estimate. Was that a peak summer rate? (Did they even have seasonal rates at WDW back then?). Was it possible to get a discount for maybe $28 a night? Maybe $28 was the actual average?

What IS the rate of lodging inflation? If its 5% a year since 1971, then Baron's adjusted rate is lower than even DK's discounted $159. IF its 10%, $32 comes out to over $600 in 2002.

I know I'm straddleing the fence on this one, but in all honesty, I can't see where either of you have really proven whether or not rate increases have been higher than the rest of the industry.

I definitely agree that intentionally pricing resorts lower than what the market would bear is in-line with Disney past philosophy, and that doesn't jive with the company's current overall policy. But, admittedly, that alone doesn't prove the point either way.

 

[raidermatt]

In 1971 with three hotels they did not need discounts the Hotels were booked for two years in advance

Ahhh, I do think this is key, however.

If the resorts truly were booked two years in advance, then clearly Disney was charging less than they could have. Law of supply and demand. They could have charged more, and maybe only booked up the resorts 6 months in advance.

With its current capacity, we will probably never see WDW completely booked 2 years in advance again, but that does bring up an interesting question... What if demand does surge? Let's say the economy improves, the terrorism threat subsides, and people really are excited about what WDW has to offer. Do we really believe that room discounts will be as easy to come by as they are today? Maybe rack rates would not jump by huge leaps, but is anyone really willing to bet that the average rate actually paid would not jump by huge leaps and bounds? Would the current Disney allow wait lists to reach two years (or even 6 months) without significantly raising rates through decreased discounts?

That's the beauty of inflating rack rates and then offering discounts when you need to. When demand picks up, you simply take away some of the discounts, but point to your rack rates as proof you did not increase your rates faster than inflation...

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hey Matt - maybe we can get Professor FDF to drop by this thread and she can have her students research the relationship between the pricing and success of Disney resorts from 1971 to the present .

 

[WEDWAY100]

Hello everyone!

I’ll start by apologizing that this isn’t going to flow at all. I just don’t have the time to organize it better.

I am a frequent lurker and a sometimes poster. This topic has really made me think and clarify my current thoughts on Disney. After careful consideration, I find myself seated in the passenger side in car 3, but close to getting out, slamming the door and going grudgingly to car 4, which is when I will quit lurking.

In order to clarify my thoughts, I had to decide what I like about Disney. I think each of us on these boards is a WDW fan, but for different reasons. Sometimes these differences are slight, but sometimes much larger. My love of DL and WDW came from my first trip to DL in 1969. I was 8 years old and my experience with rides and parks at that time consisted of fairs and carnivals. Imagine what I thought on my first day at DL, I rode a monorail, a submarine, a rollercoaster inside a mountain and a pirate ride, complete with skeletons and animatronic pirates. I was amazed, inspired…there just aren’t enough words (remember this was 1969). There was simply no comparison with DL’s competition. Walt had set the gold standard for dimensional entertainment. After WDW opened, my family took vacations there instead of DL, because it was much closer to home.

I guess the primary reason I like WDW and DL is because they were innovative, using cutting edge technology combined with a wonderful sense of storytelling, fantasy, incredible detail, and above all, new ideas. A secondary reason I enjoy the resorts is that they exceeded my expectations wherever I turned, and that quality was the main focus of their product.

So, given all that, why am I in car 3? Here goes (focusing on the primary reason only)…

The best single thing that I have found that describes the difference in Disney and reality for me is an old picture that I first saw in a copy of The Nickel Tour. It was taken on Harbor Blvd circa 1959, looking north from the DL entrance. There is a car on the road that is a great big ugly hunk of metal 1959 car. Above the car is the monorail, looking incredibly futuristic when compared with the car. That was the difference. And what a huge difference. So just as the great big ugly hunk of metal 1959 car is to the monorail, a 2002 car is to x (what)? That is the question imagineers should be asking themselves, and developing x transportation system and implementing it. The future of Disney should not be more monorails, but rather x transit system. New dark rides should not primarily feature more animatronics (even if they are improved), because we’ve been there and done that. Disney should be looking for the next great entertainment opportunity and using its parks and resorts as proving grounds. Sounds expensive, huh? But that’s exactly what they were doing in 1959. I didn’t set that lofty standard, Walt did. And at 8 years old, he proved to me that it could be done.

Along that same vein, I am concerned that they seem to be basing so much of what the company does on guest surveys. Not that the surveys are useless, but if Walt had taken guest surveys in 1957, how many of them would have come back and said, we want a monorail, or a submarine, or a rollercoaster inside a mountain. None of them would have said that because it had never been done. Walt and his team were leaders, not followers.

So for me Disney stopped being Disney when they stopped truly innovating. It also stopped being Disney when the competition caught up. Maybe some of you could argue that it hasn’t caught up yet, but just the fact that we can even debate that issue tells me that the gap has narrowed considerably. I believe that Disney parks are a good bit above what six flags offers, but IOA is darn close if not better in some ways.

If someone likes WDW because it is a large complex that is one stop shopping for vacation needs, with something for everyone in the family, then they will most likely be in car 1, and won’t be disappointed. I have no problem with that. It’s just that I experienced Disney and had my expectations set in 1969. So should I lower my expectations, or should I hold Disney to what once was? If I continue to hold them to what once was, I might as well pack up and go to car 4 now, because realistically, I don’t expect them to ever return to that. But then the optimist comes out in me and I say there is always hope…and they build Dinorama, but there is still hope…

 

[DisneyKidds]

WEDWAY100 - welcome aboard!! Boy, are you and the Baron gonna get along . I wonder who he is going to have to eject from the shotgun seat to place you there .

There have been quite a few changes over the years. I do believe that innovation to the Walt'th degree would be quite a bit more challenging today than it was back when the theme park didn't even exist. As for the competitioin catching up - I also think that it was inevitable that they would get close, thereby making discussion of that topic reasonable. The key is finding a way to stay ahead. Some feel Disney has, some don't.

 

[WEDWAY100]

DisneyKidds, Thanks!! I wish I had more time to debate with you guys.

As for it being more difficult to innovate today than it was then, I respectfully disagree. That minimizes what Walt accomplished. I really think that the creativity that he (and his team) displayed was a true gift. It may have been easier for Walt to innovate, because of who he was, but I don't think it was any easier in general.

As for getting along with the good Baron, I'm not so sure. I've read your post's and his (and just about everyone else's), and there are many people who have good points. Many of your posts have persuaded me to look at things differently, so thanks for that! I think my disagreement with the Baron will be over pricing and value, so we will have to see. I would gladly pay higher prices than today's admission if the 1969 level of creativity would return to the parks.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Hmmmm. Seems a little dated. But I thought I’d through it in while I catch up. Calling all Captains!!!

Well there you go again Baron Von Wordiness, you take something like the addition of Aladdin in Adventureland and ADMIT that it's subjective but then ridicule, rationalize and capitalize until anyone with a differing POV looks like an imbecile.

Well, I never called anyone an imbecile, but now that you mention it...

But seriously, folks! I said it was subjective and I meant it. It is MY personal and very subjective feelings and thoughts on the subject. That's all. Nothing more. You may like it. I think it's tacky at best. To each his own. It tells me you have no... (no wait, that's not quite right. Let's say...) "different" taste than me. To you I'm a loquacious snob! So be it!! (but I'm also right!!!!) And let's face it, my dear Captain, you even agree:

Well, once again I'm that imbecile.

In the words of the distinguished "best debater on this board" - 'Nuff said!!

Your Christmas tree analogy makes absolutely no sense. WDW is not nearly as 'like' as a Christmas tree whereby one atypical ornament would be out of place.

Why is it you see WDW as a whole when I'm speaking of a mere section and you concentrate on a miniscule aspect when I speak in generalities? Are you trying to be contrary?

I likened the general area of Adventureland to a well decorated, subtle, understated yet brilliantly detailed Christmas tree because it was the PERFECT analogy. I specifically didn't use the entire WDW complex because there are many, many places that I think Aladdin WOULD fit. Just as there are neon Christmas decorations that would fit on a different type of tree. If you stick it in Fantasyland I have no problem with the concept (with the exception of Dumbo being there already). And there may even be a place for it in the Studios. But I subjectively consider it's current location in conjunction with its current theme to be gaudy, tacky and in very poor taste. And for me, again subjectively, it ruins what once was a peaceful and perfectly themed area. In other words, I DON'T LIKE IT - THERE!!! Subjectively, of course!

The ride itself is well themed, pretty & fun for the kiddies

Well there you go again Captain the Pirate, you take something like the addition of Aladdin in Adventureland and ADMIT that it's subjective but then justify, rationalize and apologize until anyone with a differing POV looks like an imbecile. When we ALL know that the theme doesn't fit!!

On to Mr. Kidds, why is it that his NY City analogy makes perfect sense to me? It seems the sides are still arguing from different viewpoints...Mr. Kidds is far and away the best debater on this board & my hat is off to you sir!!!

Well, you seem to be the only one. Even Mr. Kidds left that one alone!! And you start off by saying you're going to tell us why the analogy works, but then you don't mention the subject again except to say we have different viewpoints!!!! That's one heck of an argument!!

As to the prolific pontificators...The key to this wonderful language is the ability to properly verbalize your thought so that the majority of the audience will understand what you're saying...Unless the argument that you are putting forth is mostly nonsense and needs to be hidden behind voluble diction. ...

Can I ascertain from this that you don't understand the big words? If you'd like it paraphrased in another grade level, I'll gladly send you a PM!! Something along the lines of:

Look! Look at that! See? See the big ride? It goes around and around. It is fun. It is a lot of fun. Look at Jane. Look at Sally. They are riding. "Ride Jane, ride." "Ride Sally, ride." Sally and Jane are having fun!

But Father is sad. "See, Dick!" he says. "There is something wrong. It does not fit. It does not fit anywhere in this land. See the big camel? It is bright. It has many colors. It looks plastic. It looks like a cartoon.

"See the rest of the land? It does not have bright colors. It looks like a real place. Someplace different, but real. There is no plastic. It does not look like a cartoon."

That is why Father is sad. He sees that it is wrong. Now Dick sees that it is wrong, too. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Let me know and I'll drop you a line!

 

[Captain Crook]

Your Christmas tree analogy doesn't work because Agrabah fits the Adventureland tapestry to a "T". They may be guilty of mixing & matching but that's all of Disney (including Adventureland where 'JC' sits next to 'POC'...It just doesn't matter)... Adventurland needed the bright colors of the market place but it can hardly be equated as neon lighting next to an exibition of Rembrandt...You're just ticked because it's a spinner that actually conveys the feeling it set out to (like Dumbo, not like Tricertops).

And of course I'll add my subjectivity with an exclamation point...It's the only way you'd notice it.

The NY analogy works...IT WORKS! I don't need to expound on what was perfectly stated...Sorry.

Lastly, I understand the words it's just sad that so often there is no thought process involved in their utterance...

 

[BRERALEX]

hey i just NEEDED to say that this quote here

Can I ascertain from this that you don't understand the big words? If you'd like it paraphrased in another grade level, I'll gladly send you a PM!! Something along the lines of:

is the first time a post has actually made me laugh out loud H.S. that was funny.

Dont wanna post the whole thing but man that was great.

Maybe it is like a trip to New York City. You could stay on Park Avenue in the 30's, or you could stay on Park Avenue in the 130's. Both are New York through and through, but they are very different experiences. Each of those experiences is rich in detail, but they are very different details. Many would view one as "less", but it all depends on how you look at it .

If people dont see that they are getting less now from the current disney then they were from disney of early or mid to late nintees thats just crazy.

your getting less hours.
your getting less creativity with these crappy sequals(cept toys story 2)
your getting less well thought out rides

fine they gave us a new park. half a park at best. a park i can just about stand till noon once in a ten day trip.

i like the ny quote up till the last sentence. no matter how you look at it your getting less.

And maybe the problem is the people debating.
If debator #1 has been to disneyworld since it opened more or less and been there 30 times. and debator #2 has been there like 10 times and only recently im sure debator #2 will complain about debator #1 if #1 says things round these parts aint peachy lately. #2 is gonna argue "but hey this place is great look at everything you got everyting there giving us." but #2 will never see eye to eye.

the experiences are too varying.

I respect all of the posts but dont "value" all of them cause of my experiences and learning.

ok back to lurking

anyone see a Gcurling? always enjoyed his posts

 

[DisneyKidds]

OK - My turn to catch up.....

WEDWAY.........

As for it being more difficult to innovate today than it was then, I respectfully disagree. That minimizes what Walt accomplished. I really think that the creativity that he (and his team) displayed was a true gift.

What I say certainly is not to slight the genius of Walt. You are correct - he had a gift. However, if he had survived longer it is a good bet he would have applied that gift to something other than theme parks once WDW was up and running. Sure, instead of giving us Mission: Space, Disney could give us a theme park IN space - or on the moon. That sure would be innovative. I agree that there is room for innovation in the world. However, I don't see that much room for Walt like innovation WITHIN existing theme parks.

Baron.......

Well, you seem to be the only one. Even Mr. Kidds left that one alone!!

Well, apparently not. If I thought there would be any 'value' to clarifying that last line for BRERALEX I would, and he'd buy the analogy lock, stock, and barrel. Alas, since I was only 3 when I visited in 1971 my opinion doesn't seem to mean much to him. Oh, and just so you know, I started typing my response to your failure to see the analogy, but I realized (yes, it only took umpteen thousand pages) that trying to convince you of even a simple truth once you have made up your mind is a waste of breath, I mean key strokes. Not that I won't do it often, but I'll pick my spots. The analogy stands on it's own, and it is applicable.

BRERALEX.......

If people dont see that they are getting less now from the current disney then they were from disney of early or mid to late nintees thats just crazy.

What does your 'experience and learning' tell you about what we were getting from Disney in the early 90's? You see, there is not much disagreement that things have gone down hill from the early 90's to today. Even in lurk mode one should have been able to discern that from the discussions. However, there are those that believe that Disney of the early 90's was crap, or at least roughage, on the way thru the slippery intestines, that was destined to become crap - MHB, midnight hours, and all. So, no one is acting crazy, saying that today is as good as 1990, or 1996, or 1998. However, if that is your perspective you have missed much of what has been said by a great many people. You know - compromised standards, slippery slopes, etc., etc. - and that dates back into the 80's for some. Heck, for some it has only been downhill since 1972. That is what is crazy .

 

[Patch'sD]

In answer to the question. Portofino compares well to any of the Disney Resorts, front of the Line is an excellent perk for on-site guests. To me that was magic.

 

[ohanafamily]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
In answer to the question. Portofino compares well to any of the Disney Resorts, front of the Line is an excellent perk for on-site guests. To me that was magic.

This is a little off of the subject, I stayed at the Hard-Rock.
I liked the line pass, found the room to be OK, well themed. But I also found it expensive. We ate in the hotel restauraunt, shared a salad, I had a dinner portion of Macaroni and Cheese (the waitress recommended it), and my wife had a salmon dish. It was over $50.00. Also, I think it was the least expensive real meal we had there. This is $$$$$$$$ even by Ei$ner's standards for restaraunts...

DW just reminded me that we BOTH had Mac & Cheese at the restaurant in HRH. $50+ for 2 M&C and 1 salad. What's up with that? We spent less on the Boardwalk for "adult" food.

 

[FantasticDisFamily]

Ok folks, jumping in on this one and right up front I am admitting I have carefully read some posts, skimmed others, and basically skipped some.

That being said my response comes in answer to the original post - when does the Disney Experience stop being a Disney experience?

Short Answer: When I stop feeling the magic.

Slightly more explanation:

1. A Disney trip is more expensive than other trips but since we don't go all that often - once a year if we're REALLY lucky - usually every couple - and like the convenience of booking everything as a package we don't feel nickle and dimed. Yes there are additional costs but we plan those in. If the cost was comparable to running up to Mackinac Island or over to Chicago for the week-end part of the "special" would begin to disappear as it would feel maybe a little too accessible. I'm not saying I want higher prices for the sake of higher prices, just that for me it hasn't reached the it is out of reach point. And a comment that is going to sound a little snobbish: quite frankly the Disney experience ceases to exist more quickly when there a lot of folks around who are treating the parks/ship etc as any other "amusement park". Those who have spent much time on the cruise boards have read the "dress code" discussions and how those who don't participate in the recommendations start to detract from the "magic".

2. The Disney experience still exists because my teens are eager to go, don't fight with each other or their parental units from the time we leave for the airport until we arrive home again. Let me reiterate: non-bickering children makes the experience still Disney. LOL!

3. There is still enough attention to detail and enough CMs that provide that service level that says Disney to me to be magic. As long as a CM goes out of her way to track a missing package - and does it with a smile, or pays attention to my daughter's interest in French so she is speaking some of the language by the time we disembark, and the examples go on.

4. The experience does CHANGE over time - the intensity of the experience may alter depending on which park, ship's itinerary, etc but it hasn't disappeared.

Is all of the above subjective? Sure

Am I concerned with recent trends that cost cutting, diminishing attention to detail has serious potential of eliminating the Disneyness of the experience? Yes

My 2 cents...

The Professor

 

[ohanafamily]

Welcome FantasticDisFamily (AKA The Professor)

While I don't have any kids, I understand the value of the non-bickering teens. I still view the parks with wild-eyed amazement. There are a few (you know who you are wearing those evil shoes that fit all too well) grumps and fuddy-duddies who would have you believe that the end of the (Disney) world is imminent. I agree with much of what you said, and thus refuse to have MY DISNEY EXPERIENCE tainted by the facts as presented in this thread. Having said that, these cut-backs are affecting me. Maybe we should start a write in campaign. Maybe we could put a dollar bill in the envelope to let them know we understand their financial troubles …

Seriously, I will enjoy the magic as long as I am able