DEBATE: Busses

[Patch'sD]

Tyler has stated the problem quite Eloquently. Either real or perceived, The guest has no clue when a bus will be coming. Tyler has stated in his own words that a guest may be disatisified by a perceived wait time. The key word here is disatisified. IF Disney was to put a messaging system in, wouldn't this avoid the percieved wait time issue. When you got to the bus stop, A sign would be available to inform the guest when the bus was coming. In Tylers words it would solve 90% of the problems. A blinking light or Automated Message system could tell you what bus was aproaching, avoiding the not paying attention problem. The next bus for MK is expected in 15 minutes can cut down on the perception problem. A not running sign can for the resort can avoid the dazed and confused about what park opens when problem. And of course can alert the guest when there is a real problem and give them the choice to make other arrangements.

We don't need the latest and greatest Tech here. A transponder and sensor type system would work well and provide guests with a more informed and pleasureable stay at the resort.

The Mod and FLex programs sound to me as cutbacks to make service more effcient in terms of cost not service. No dead head runs means that the bus will take longer to get back to it's point of origin and requires less busses. The flex program to means to me "we have no clue what the demand is so we will react to it rather then plan for it". if there is heavy demand for DD, Epcot, and MK who suffers if more busses are dispatched to location 1 and location 2, while location 3 gets less busses. I can see this system doubling wait times for people will improving it for others.

I value Tylers opinion and his knowledge. But He paints a very rosie picture when it comes to the bus system. That has had many complaints. I don't blame him, he takes pride in his work and his system and should be commended for that.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
IF Disney was to put a messaging system in, wouldn't this avoid the percieved wait time issue. When you got to the bus stop, A sign would be available to inform the guest when the bus was coming.

But, see, here's the thing. Unlike your typical transit system in which this system would work for... Disney is quite different.

The Next Bus system, and other simmilar systems operate on the assumption that bus 5464 is running on route 45. It's got a fixed route, with fixed stops. The computer uses GPS tracking to find the location of bus 5464 along the fixed route, and can calculate times based on distance.

With Disney... it's a bit different. With MOD, all of our busses are dynamically assigned to a route. Bus 2769 could be waiting in the dispatch line at Port Orleans... and then get dispatched immediatly to go do West, North, East for Magic Kingdom. So, now, ETA would be 2, 5, 8 mins respectivly. So we'll say those times will now just pop up on a screen. Bus gets to the West Depot, and there is a guest travelling with a scooter. By now, the screen at the North depot says 2mins for the next bus. Well... suppose it takes a few minutes to secure the scooter. Now, the bus is percieved as being late by the guests, and they'll be complaining. Now... lets say the bus fills up at the North Depot. The folks at the East Depot are looking at thier screen and it says 2mins for the next bus, because the system sees that bus so close.

Originally posted by Patch'sD
The Mod and FLex programs sound to me as cutbacks to make service more effcient in terms of cost not service. No dead head runs means that the bus will take longer to get back to it's point of origin and requires less busses.

Um, no. They are NOT cutbacks, and in fact require more staffing. MODs sole purpose is to maximize efficiency. Look at it this way... Why have a bus run empty from the AK area to the MK area? The bus is going to that area anyways, might as well take some people along!

Originally posted by Patch'sD
The flex program to means to me "we have no clue what the demand is so we will react to it rather then plan for it". if there is heavy demand for DD, Epcot, and MK who suffers if more busses are dispatched to location 1 and location 2, while location 3 gets less busses. I can see this system doubling wait times for people will improving it for others.

I don't think you understand Flex Dispatch. While MOD operates out of the resorts, Flex operates out of the theme park. We do not share busses. Flex Dispatch operates NO DIFFERENTLY than the old pre-set route busses. The set dispatch times are STILL THERE. If every single bus runs perfectly on time... neither early nor late... and if nothing goes wrong... then in theory... each bus will recieve the exact same run, time after time. Happens to me all the time. However... some drivers will run early. Some will run late. Traffic happens. Flex Dispatch allows for shorter intervals by taking drivers who run early, and giving them the next dispatch times... and then the drivers who might get a bit behind, get the dispatch times after that. Instead of drivers pulling into the MK 10 minutes early... they're now given a dispatch time of NOW. This takes that 10 mins and puts it to use. So, for example, instead of doing 6 runs in a three hour period... we might be able to do 8 runs.

Keep in mind... Flex Dispatch is NOT a demand based dispatching system. However, it does allow the flexibility to be able to add busses to certain routes if neccessary.

 

[WebmasterCricket]

Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
But, see, here's the thing. Unlike your typical transit system in which this system would work for... Disney is quite different.[/B]

Oh, but that may be where you could be wrong.

I do things all day long that have been working just fine. That doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

You are obviously correct in saying that Disney is doing whatever it is that they are doing right now. You do it every time you go to work. Anyone here would be short sighted in arguing that point with you.

The thing you may not be seeing, is that there is possibly a better system out there that is based on the "typical transit system". Disney may have tried the "typical transit system" without the new tech in the past, and it failed due to the many reasons given here and many others not yet mentioned. With this new tech and software, it could very well (hey it's a rumor board right???) replace what you are doing now as a whole.

No more Flex dispatch, no more MOD. Strictly a software driven location and flow based automated dispatch system that fixes itself as it learns where the problems are.

We could all be issued hovercraft as well when we check in. Hey you never know. It could happen someday!

JC

 

[ohanafamily]

Tyler, couldn't they quickly and inexpensively implement a sytem to where when a bus is dispatched there is a sign counting down the time to when it should reach the next stop? based on an average traffic model. when it hits each stop the dispatcher enters it in the system and it updates the list for the rest of the stops. You could approximate the first stop because you know what time the next bus would be dispatched. Further, you could put a call button at each stop for guests to comunicate if the system isn't working. This would make it easy to reach a dispatcher, and at least make the guest know tha a bus is on the way. If lots of people are grumbling, dispatch another bus...The signs don't have to be high tech, and the software for the timing approximation can start simple and work off of models created over time for traffic patterns and delays. One dispatcher for each line would control a board. The boards would be centrally located in a single room. The same Flex/MOD dispatcher could press a button when the bus is dispatched, then press another when the bus reports that they have arrived at stop #1. When they hit stop #1 a timer based on when the next bus is supposed to leave the station will be set. It can be done wirelessly, or wired. It can be simple or complex. but a low powerd display with the approximate wait time would make things easier.

The drawback is that if you dispatch an extra bus you would still have to send the regular one through, for those people who rely on the amount of time the timer gives them.

The call button could be used to inform the dispatcher of a large group, or getting guests advice on how to get where. Since the person at the stop would be communicating with a CM not a dispatcher, the CM could call the dispatcher if needed. It would help keep people from getting royally upset...

just an idea...

 

[Conure]

I actually think the bus system is a decent form of primary travel. I also think that the schedule is bad. When I stayed at the All Star Sports, we saw a bus for EPCOT leave, and whil waiting in line we saw THREE MGM busses come, with an assortment of others, until finally, our EPCOT bus came. They need to reconsider the popularity of each park, amount of time spent, weather, and other factors into the bus times. They should be ready for each scenario. I'm guessing people are more willing to wait for a bus when it's suuny, not uncomfortably warm, at the Magic Kingdom, the when it's 50 degrees F, pouring rain, at 8:00 AM, waitning at a hotel.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by ohanafamily
Tyler, couldn't they quickly and inexpensively implement a sytem

There is no such thing as "Quick" or "Inexpensive" at Walt Disney World. LOL

Originally posted by ohanafamily
Further, you could put a call button at each stop for guests to comunicate if the system isn't working. This would make it easy to reach a dispatcher

We actually already have house phones at most bus stops, so that guests can call WDW-RIDE for Bus Information. Unfortunetly, most of the calls are made to complain about extended wait times that are false. Just today, I went into WL... picked up no one. 15 mins later, I heard a call over the radio that guests were complaining that they had been waiting 45 mins for a DTD bus.


In addition... suppose they do put up that "Approx wait time" display... and a bus fills up at the prior stop. Now the time display gets reset to 5 mins (since they now have to dispatch a new bus). Those guests who are staring at the sign will now start calling up and complaining and whatnot.

I hate to sound pessimistic... but, experiencing what I do out there... That is exactly what will happen.

 

[PKS44]

One thing that was cool about the Moscow subway system (as I recall from many years ago) was it told you how long it had been SINCE the last train. You weren't sure when the next would be but it was nice to have a sense of how far off it might be given the usual cycling times.

It seems to me that what guests want at the very least is information...such a system would eliminate the "lying" that guests do to themselves and to CM's about wait times and would avoid the need to re-adjust for guessing arrival times when buses fill up at a prior stop as Tyler notes...

A display clock set-up would show the last Epcot bus was X min ago, the last MGM bus was Y minutes ago, the last DTD bus was Z minutes ago, etc...as each bus left it would reset the clock to 0. and start counting again. Guests could see for themselves that they were not waiting those long times that it sometimes feels AND WDW would have a more reliable guide of how long between buses things are going.... I think this is a simple, low tech and cheap and easy system that could go a long way to soothing some of the bus-related headaches.

Paul

 

[Tiffany]

Originally posted by PKS44
One thing that was cool about the Moscow subway system (as I recall from many years ago) was it told you how long it had been SINCE the last train. You weren't sure when the next would be but it was nice to have a sense of how far off it might be given the usual cycling times.

It seems to me that what guests want at the very least is information...such a system would eliminate the "lying" that guests do to themselves and to CM's about wait times and would avoid the need to re-adjust for guessing arrival times when buses fill up at a prior stop as Tyler notes...

A display clock set-up would show the last Epcot bus was X min ago, the last MGM bus was Y minutes ago, the last DTD bus was Z minutes ago, etc...as each bus left it would reset the clock to 0. and start counting again. Guests could see for themselves that they were not waiting those long times that it sometimes feels AND WDW would have a more reliable guide of how long between buses things are going.... I think this is a simple, low tech and cheap and easy system that could go a long way to soothing some of the bus-related headaches.

Paul

Paul,

I must say that this is one of the best ideas I have ever read about a suggested improvement at WDW. Great idea!

 

[ohanafamily]

Paul, That is a great idea...leave it to the Russians!

Actually, I recall seeing something like that in the monorail stations.

Additionally, this would let the people who went back to call the WDW RIDE know that they missed the boat (or bus)

Tyler, What Do You Think? a good one for the suggestion box?