Data Mining Disney -- A Magical Experience

[Yellowstonetim]

Really?.........I never said Disney wasn't tracking with MBs..............BUT WHO CARES.............I really don't...........whether I buy a Pluto for the grandkids or eat here or there?......when I book FP+.............WHO CARES....its meaningless. Let them arrange and maximize their sales, that is what ALL companies do and it doesn't make Disney EVIL...................If you don't want something....DONT BUY IT! That's the individual guests choice to buy or not!

What scares me is all the others stores/companies , Amazon, car dealerships, LL Bean, Macys , Target, Banking ,CREDIT RATINGS, when I buy a House or rent a apartment, buy a boat (major purchase), tracking us by our cell phones, cams, facial recon. on public street for other then criminal matters. When the details like this are brought and sold between them they are actually EFFECTING peoples lives and often in a negative way. This has been going on for a number of years now, years before the MBs...............his is what we need to worry about and be scared about.

AKK

Yellowstonetim- I agree and share your sense of 'holy crap - this is almost terrifying with the applications and ramifications'.

I am sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me. I don't think Disney is evil and I am not scared of this at all. But you are right, Rileygirl, it is "almost terrifying" but not quite. I am very much in favor of it! My gee-whiz awe is because I am very excited for the possibilities. In a very limited way, I work with examining groups, behaviors, and use statistical analysis. It is primitive and on a much smaller scale than what we are talking about, but I know enough to know how powerful and useful this data will be and its potential to change the theme park experience. No fear or hesitation whatsoever. Everyone who puts on a magic band does so voluntarily while on vacation. I could care less if they track me, especially when it will improve my experience. When I leave I take off the band and the government does not have scanners where I live.

Nothing I mentioned in my post requires input from the customer. The bands do it all. They will know where you are and how long it took. They will know whether or not your party was together. Of course, they will know more about those that stay on property, but they know a great deal about everyone that wears a band. You have to consider the different pieces of information they can put together. They can do a study of the differences in behavior of families with one, two, three, and four kids. How much longer does it take them to go from A to B, what different store and eating habits do they have? How are these different size families behaviors different by ages, nationalities, length of stay, etc., etc. Now how do these groups behave differently when the weather is 60 as opposed to 90?

Plus, you have to remember that surveys are very flawed. People do not always tell you the truth or the whole truth, or they often don't remember things correctly. The bands won't lie. They will tell you to the second when they actually went somewhere and exactly when they left.

Part of this whole things is that the information will help Disney to understand crowd behavior in great detail so they can make adjustments to alleviate problem areas. This is huge. And it isn't really the band with two RFID chips. It is the network of scanners and the computer program that will collect the information and then do some serious crunching and analysis. It will take some time to work out the details of how to analyze the data and understand what it means. Part of the work will be analyzing changes in behavior when changes happen in the park. However, as it gets perfected, Disney will be a decade ahead of anyone else, if not more. Then they can liscense what they have to any other business that wants to understand large groups of people moving in complex patterns within a controlled area. Basically theme parks, but there may be other places. Maybe large sporting events, although movement there is not near as complex so the value is less. Still there would be much to know about exactly what someone does when they get up out of their seat. And I read a story about how the bands could be used in a hospital. That sounds wonderful.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I am sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me. I don't think Disney is evil and I am not scared of this at all. But you are right, Rileygirl, it is "almost terrifying" but not quite. I am very much in favor of it! My gee-whiz awe is because I am very excited for the possibilities. In a very limited way, I work with examining groups, behaviors, and use statistical analysis. It is primitive and on a much smaller scale than what we are talking about, but I know enough to know how powerful and useful this data will be and its potential to change the theme park experience. No fear or hesitation whatsoever. Everyone who puts on a magic band does so voluntarily while on vacation. I could care less if they track me, especially when it will improve my experience. When I leave I take off the band and the government does not have scanners where I live.

Nothing I mentioned in my post requires input from the customer. The bands do it all. They will know where you are and how long it took. They will know whether or not your party was together. Of course, they will know more about those that stay on property, but they know a great deal about everyone that wears a band. You have to consider the different pieces of information they can put together. They can do a study of the differences in behavior of families with one, two, three, and four kids. How much longer does it take them to go from A to B, what different store and eating habits do they have? How are these different size families behaviors different by ages, nationalities, length of stay, etc., etc. Now how do these groups behave differently when the weather is 60 as opposed to 90?

Plus, you have to remember that surveys are very flawed. People do not always tell you the truth or the whole truth, or they often don't remember things correctly. The bands won't lie. They will tell you to the second when they actually went somewhere and exactly when they left.

Part of this whole things is that the information will help Disney to understand crowd behavior in great detail so they can make adjustments to alleviate problem areas. This is huge. And it isn't really the band with two RFID chips. It is the network of scanners and the computer program that will collect the information and then do some serious crunching and analysis. It will take some time to work out the details of how to analyze the data and understand what it means. Part of the work will be analyzing changes in behavior when changes happen in the park. However, as it gets perfected, Disney will be a decade ahead of anyone else, if not more. Then they can liscense what they have to any other business that wants to understand large groups of people moving in complex patterns within a controlled area. Basically theme parks, but there may be other places. Maybe large sporting events, although movement there is not near as complex so the value is less. Still there would be much to know about exactly what someone does when they get up out of their seat. And I read a story about how the bands could be used in a hospital. That sounds wonderful.

Yellowstone I agree and I did misunderstand your earlier post. my bad!!

My point is Disney is not the only company doing this kind of techno stuff nor were they the first..........other companies, banks, etc.etc. are and working together. What I was trying to point out is some folks here don't understand that Disney is not the only company............this type of new tracking and data mining has been around for years now and is growing in ability. The bottom line is simply the pubic,(US) will have no privacy at all in a few more years and that is what is scary to me.


AKK

 

[SalutemyShorts]

Yellowstone I agree and I did misunderstand your earlier post. my bad!!

My point is Disney is not the only company doing this kind of techno stuff nor were they the first..........other companies, banks, etc.etc. are and working together. What I was trying to point out is some folks here don't understand that Disney is not the only company............this type of new tracking and data mining has been around for years now and is growing in ability. The bottom line is simply the pubic,(US) will have no privacy at all in a few more years and that is what is scary to me.


AKK

You're right about other companies doing it forever, just nobody is doing on this scale, to this large of a group of people in one business' geographic location. It's actually probably impossible for any other company to be able to get even close to this scale just because of how large WDW is.

I'm also willing to bet that Disney is also buying or has bought large data-mines from these other companies already. Our credit cards already track our purchasing habits, and they're associated with us in various data-groups. Now that we're using credit cards through our phones/computers and on our phones/computers, we've associated our phones/computers with ourselves on those lists. These lists know our age or age ranges, gender, spending habits, geographic location(often down to address), phone numbers, email addresses, our likes and dislikes. This is why when you've looked up vacations, and then finished that search, vacation ads will start popping up to you. I work on that side of things, not the data mining, but using those data mines to reach advertisers, and it's really crazy what can be done.

So if you take the data that Disney is gathering in their parks, along with the other data-mines they've bought into to access, they're going to be able to do a lot with this.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You're right about other companies doing it forever, just nobody is doing on this scale, to this large of a group of people in one business' geographic location. It's actually probably impossible for any other company to be able to get even close to this scale just because of how large WDW is.

I'm also willing to bet that Disney is also buying or has bought large data-mines from these other companies already. Our credit cards already track our purchasing habits, and they're associated with us in various data-groups. Now that we're using credit cards through our phones/computers and on our phones/computers, we've associated our phones/computers with ourselves on those lists. These lists know our age or age ranges, gender, spending habits, geographic location(often down to address), phone numbers, email addresses, our likes and dislikes. This is why when you've looked up vacations, and then finished that search, vacation ads will start popping up to you. I work on that side of things, not the data mining, but using those data mines to reach advertisers, and it's really crazy what can be done.

So if you take the data that Disney is gathering in their parks, along with the other data-mines they've bought into to access, they're going to be able to do a lot with this.

Its not going to just be Disney, Disney will be a small part...........the entire commercial world will be adding to this!.....privacy will be out the window!

AKK

 

[SalutemyShorts]

Its not going to just be Disney, Disney will be a small part...........the entire commercial world will be adding to this!.....privacy will be out the window!

AKK

Oh, I'm not too worried about that. There are ways to safeguard yourself from your computer data being tracked if you really want. All of the other stuff has been around for decades. Some people are really worried about it, but I'm less worried about companies tracking my spending habits to reach me with products that I might want, than I am about the Patriot Act. That's not really a discussion for here or one that I want to get into, though.

I'm just merely talking about what Disney will be able to do in the parks if they actually want to maximize the usefulness of all of this data they have.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Oh, I'm not too worried about that. There are ways to safeguard yourself from your computer data being tracked if you really want. All of the other stuff has been around for decades. Some people are really worried about it, but I'm less worried about companies tracking my spending habits to reach me with products that I might want, than I am about the Patriot Act. That's not really a discussion for here or one that I want to get into, though.

I'm just merely talking about what Disney will be able to do in the parks if they actually want to maximize the usefulness of all of this data they have.

However all companies maximize there selling abilities, its called free enterprise/supply and demand and frankly, what stuffed character or meal you have and when isn't a big deal.........we make the decisions what to buy and what not to buy. I am still more worried about the companies around the world working together.

AKK

 

[SalutemyShorts]

However all companies maximize there selling abilities, its called free enterprise/supply and demand and frankly, what stuffed character or meal you have and when isn't a big deal.........we make the decisions what to buy and what not to buy. I am still more worried about the companies around the world working together.

AKK

If it didn't matter, companies wouldn't be spending huge amounts of money to track the data, it's as simple as that. There also wouldn't be advertising anywhere, and it wouldn't be tracked if none of this mattered. You're really oversimplifying a huge industry, one that I work in and understand quite well.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

If it didn't matter, companies wouldn't be spending huge amounts of money to track the data, it's as simple as that. There also wouldn't be advertising anywhere, and it wouldn't be tracked if none of this mattered. You're really oversimplifying a huge industry, one that I work in and understand quite well.

Let me present is a different way.... I meant didn't matter to the individual Disney guest...................It doesn't matter if Disney ( or any company for that matter) works to present WDW, DL, movies, etc, in a way to maximize their profits, thats called free enterprise, supply and demand and profits, yes its a huge business.......But its up to the individual to decide to buy or not to buy, a character stuffed animal or stay at a deluxe or a value. At the end of the vacation the worse that happens you spent to much for your budget and that the guests responsibility. The same on a world wide basis, is a much bigger matter and the lost of all privacy, all your banking information, credit rating. etc.......that effects a individual much more then the Disney stuffed animal.

I disagree in that we cannot really protect ourselves the selling of the important information,.....all those notices we get in the mail and in billing....all slickly worded to say (if we understood it all) yes its ok to do this or that and we don't realize that. Compared to this.....the stuffed Disney Mickey is not important........we still can say no to the stuffed Mickey. We cannot as easily say no to the release of the important information.

This is my concern.


AKK

 

[Astridia]

It isn't data mining itself that is exceptional. It is the data mining in the theme park setting and the type of information they will be able to evaluate. The total amount of information they will have on me and how it can be crunched and analyzed is a huge deal. This has never been done to this detail on a similar sized population as far as I know. They are not just going to know everything about me, they are going to know where I walked, what I ate, how long I spent in each store and exactly what I bought. They will know this for millions of customers. This, as the writer notes, will bring great change.

What new things are they learning about you via your MB? Your favorite rides, merchandise, and restaurants. Can't they learn all of this already? I might agree with this premise if the MB's tracked movements in our everyday lives, but they don't.

 

[Astridia]

Or because of increased movement towards the likes of Amazon... Who might I add has excellent analytics and tracking on each of us, and can provide suggestions based on our preferences.

Agree, but how can this info be used in the theme parks? I love the Amazon recommendations, but at WDW what are they going to suggest. We see you rode BTMRR we would suggest Splash? Not very impressive. I think Data mining is great when you have a gigantic inventory, but WDW has a very limited inventory so Data mining is really useless.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

What new things are they learning about you via your MB? Your favorite rides, merchandise, and restaurants. Can't they learn all of this already? I might agree with this premise if the MB's tracked movements in our everyday lives, but they don't.

MB will track your movement while at WDW and no, they did not have much of this info pre-magic bands.

They know a very small amount of this info in a very limited way prior to MBs, and it is useful, but there is much they do not know. The bands have short range and long range RFID. Every time you use the band to enter a park or buy something, they will know exactly when and what you did. They will also know when you got in line for your FP+ and when you got to the other end and got on the ride. They will know what FP+'s you changed and what ones you skipped. All this will be connected with your information so they will be able to know, not just what you did, but what every group you fit in did.

Now with the long range scanners they will be able to place a scanner on rides, in restaurants, at every "pinch point" (narrow walkway, doorway, and entrance) in every park. and even in DTD or other Disney World places. While the scanners will allow cool interactivity with characters and on rides, what it will really be doing is noting the exact time you where there. Disney will be able to make a map of your movements and the movements of everyone in your party wearing a band. They will know if and how your group meandered down main street or headed straight to rides. They will know when you were together and when you split up. How often, how long, and where you used the restrooms and the same for stores and restaurants. This has NOT been available in the past. And all this information will be in Disney's computer system and available in real time!

In the past they knew when you used your card to enter a park, buy something, or pay at a restaurant. But the rest of what you did was a profound mystery. They could do surveys but these don't really give much info. They could only count large numbers of people like when they would watch lines and estimate times. This will no longer be necessary. They will know exactly how a line moves, both FP and regular, by tracking MBs. They will even know how many people walked away after coming up to the entrance.

This information is amazingly unique and crucial. They will be able to study behaviors by groups and extrapolate many things including how to make everyone's experience better, how to resolve situations where crowds bunch up in one place. They will be able to adjust how they move CM's to better handle crowds and customer needs.

Imagine a set of maps. On this map the computer shows the movements (with possibly colors for time frames/speeds) of people in various demographics. One set tracks 50 to 75 year olds, without kids, from the US, staying onsite. The other tracks families with 2 to 5 children and at least 1 under 10 years of age, also from the US, and staying onsite. They will do two things: Visually look at the differences in how these groups moved, stopped, and what they did during the day, and also mathematically analyze the differences. Next will be a set of questions for evaluation: Why? How do these differences affect the experience? How do they effect shopping? If something changed how would it affect these two groups? [What I am explaining is a very simplified version of what will be done. It is an amazing and complex science that is far more useful than those unfamiliar with it realize.] Then when they have lots of data they will, like weather scientists, be able to build computer models to predict behavior, spending, etc.

This is amazingly powerful and valuable information for a business that is all about moving large amounts of people around a complex park. And making them happy while parting them from as much money as possible.

Everybody screamed bloody murder about this costing 1 to 2 Billion. In the long run it will be worth far more than 10 or 20 Billion. And people will buy special bands and band decorations to boot! The fact that we like the bands and spend a little more freely with them is gravy. The official measurable value is the increased spending and increased capacity, along with happy visitors, but the data is the real treasure.

The only thing we do not, and will not, know, is how many and the location of long range scanners. I think there will be many, they will continually grow in number, and Disney will continue to refine the technology.

 

[Astridia]

I believe there were other ways this information could've been gathered and the -2 billion investment could've been spent on sorely need park face lifts.

I also don't think FP+ has been particularly successful in crowd management. I think there is still a percentage of customers who are dissatisfied.

IMO the Huffington post article was another publicity piece. I think the Disney execs are planting these articles in an attempt to convince the Board that MDE/MB was a wise investment.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I believe there were other ways this information could've been gathered and the -2 billion investment could've been spent on sorely need park face lifts.

I also don't think FP+ has been particularly successful in crowd management. I think there is still a percentage of customers who are dissatisfied.

IMO the Huffington post article was another publicity piece. I think the Disney execs are planting these articles in an attempt to convince the Board that MDE/MB was a wise investment.

What other ways? Try to come up with one. There aren't any. How do you track every persons movement to the second and tie it to their personal information and spending? There is absolutely no other way to know this information. Unless you scheduled a CM to follow the family with a watch and clipboard recording everything they do.

Regarding FP; there is a small percentage of customers that are dissatisfied and a much larger percentage that are more happy with the new system than the old. Just because an article isn't negative doesn't mean it is a plant.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

And 1 to 2 Billion is a drop in the bucket. It hasn't stopped Pandora, New Fantasy Land, Disney Springs, or the big changes coming to DHS. And yes, there are big changes obviously coming to DHS. Whole lands and rides. It has been made clear, but the rides have not been detailed yet. The only reason not to believe something big is coming to DHS is because you don't want to.

 

[Astridia]

What other ways? Try to come up with one. There aren't any. How do you track every persons movement to the second and tie it to their personal information and spending? There is absolutely no other way to know this information. Unless you scheduled a CM to follow the family with a watch and clipboard recording everything they do.

Regarding FP; there is a small percentage of customers that are dissatisfied and a much larger percentage that are more happy with the new system than the old. Just because an article isn't negative doesn't mean it is a plant.

Lets see, credit card receipts? Merchandise inventory systems? Gate entry? Hotel occupancy? Magical Express info that includes: originating city, resort destination, and number of days at a resort. Number o fmeals sold at QS and TTS restaurants.

They had all of this info prior to MDE. You're right, they didn't have your specific information, but according to a lot of people on these boards, Disney doesn't care about the individual consumer.

 

[Astridia]

And 1 to 2 Billion is a drop in the bucket. It hasn't stopped Pandora, New Fantasy Land, Disney Springs, or the big changes coming to DHS. And yes, there are big changes obviously coming to DHS. Whole lands and rides. It has been made clear, but the rides have not been detailed yet. The only reason not to believe something big is coming to DHS is because you don't want to.

Has anything specific been stated about DHS? I haven't seen anything, am I missing something? And it's not because I don't want something to come to DHS. Why wouldn't I want new attractions? Why wouldn't anyone want new rides or attractions?

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Lets see, credit card receipts? Merchandise inventory systems? Gate entry? Hotel occupancy? Magical Express info that includes: originating city, resort destination, and number of days at a resort. Number o fmeals sold at QS and TTS restaurants.

They had all of this info prior to MDE. You're right, they didn't have your specific information, but according to a lot of people on these boards, Disney doesn't care about the individual consumer.

They had that info but that is nothing like what they have with the bands. That doesn't come close to the information we are talking about. Credit card receipt doesn't tell you how long the person was in the store, how many of their party were in the store, where they were before and after shopping and what route they travelled to get there. How long they stood in line and how many stood in line after they shopped and before they ate. That is the difference. The bands and the RFID long range scanning tells Disney actual movement through the park down to the second at each reading down to the individual level for everyone wearing a band. This is a whole lot more information and it is pure gold.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Has anything specific been stated about DHS? I haven't seen anything, am I missing something? And it's not because I don't want something to come to DHS. Why wouldn't I want new attractions? Why wouldn't anyone want new rides or attractions?

They have not named any rides or any specifics but they did say Star Wars was coming, rides were in development, and it was going to be big and will be announced in the near future, sometime this year.

 

[Astridia]

They have not named any rides or any specifics but they did say Star Wars was coming, rides were in development, and it was going to be big and will be announced in the near future, sometime this year.

I heard none of that. The only thing Bob Iger said was Star Wars was going to be a presence in the parks. He didn't say which parks, he didn't mention any rides. Could be like the Tangled Toilets in NFL for all we know.

All of us would love to see Epcot and DHS receive new attractions, not just re-dos or additional capacity on current rides. But there has been no specific announcements. Yes, I agree DHS will get something, but what specifically is anyone's guess. Also when is this transformation supposed to occur? 10 years, 20 years?

 

[I M Fearless]

I agree 100% that the magic bands are genius on Disney's part.

They are so ahead of their time and the business world can see this. It is an example of them leading the way - they were way ahead of the game in 1955 when Disneyland opened, people thought it was a crazy idea at the time that wouldn't last, they couldn't see the crucial difference between Disneyland and a regular carnival type park. Many people thought Disney was extravagant and somewhat of a crazy maker at the time he built Disneyland. Now themeparks across the world imitate the Disney model, albeit not as well.

Fastpass legacy was way ahead when it was introduced, again imitated by many others.

Data is massively useful and successful companies have known this for years.

To anyone who is in any doubt about the significance of what Disney have here, I would really recommend reading a book called "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg.

Imagine what this sort of technology could do for somewhere like Vegas?

An individual casino, store or hotel would kill for the opportunity to know so much.

The difference is: Disney have total control over the entire site, they even get hold of us straight off the plane from the airport with DME!

I don't understand why people are vastly under estimating the huge benefits of this system to a business such as Disney World. They deserve the success: they have earned every penny through their innovation over the last century.