Dan Rather's Expose Adopted or Abducted?

[LORI522]

I'm not so sure that young pregnant women in certain circumstances still aren't coerced to some extent.

Coercion may happen occasionally, but less than 1% of teenagers in the US choose adoption. In fact, many people believe that due to the reduced stigma attached to single motherhood, women feel pressured to NOT choose adoption.

As an adoptive mother, I can understand that pressure...I have had MANY people say to me "how could a good person give away their child?" I always say "My kids' mothers love them as much as any mother has ever loved a child...they chose adoption to give their baby a better life...in my book, that is the definition of unselfish." I am fiercely protective of the "honor" of my kid's birth parents.

 

[RadioNate]

Wow, three new posters who have only posted on this thread. What are the odds?

I'm not quite getting some of the posts on either side....there have been some doozies. Although I have not personally been involved in adoption, I still have a right to my opinion and here on the Dis I have a right to post it as long as I don't break the forum rules.

Personally, I do think that anonymity should trump everything, regardless of which side requests it. The program sounds interesting, and I'll try to watch it when I can.

I know right?????

 

[Demeter630]

You are getting new posters just for this thread and those with very “emotional” or strong responses because this is a very serious topic concerning the safety of families, ending the baby selling industry (which is very much legal in the US when labeled “adoption”) and just all around basic human rights. It is very important that the general public (society) understand the truth, so I’m just going to go ahead and cover everything in one post then be on my way. Let me start by saying this is STILL happening TODAY. It happened to me in 1991.

No human being on this planet should have ANY of their basic human rights ripped from them. It doesn't matter if you are a teenager, unmarried or poor. All people deserve every chance to raise their children and all children deserve every chance to grow up in a happy, healthy home with their own flesh and blood. Women of that era were treated in horrific ways. They were silenced, shamed, bullied, marginalized, used and tossed away. All they needed was honesty and a chance. All they needed was support and guidance. Ripping babies away from their mothers is not in any way human, let alone legal. No one owes some richer married couple their child just because said couple is infertile. No one deserves to lose their baby just because they are poor.

It was and still is society and a lack of regulation in human rights/human protection (ie: baby napping and baby selling) that caused this atrocity. This is about the TRUTH finally being told. This is about justice. This about change to a better world where families stay together and citizens have a chance to prosper happily, thereby creating a happier, healthier, more productive, more humane and civilized world for everyone.

Have you ever had sex? Ever been in love? Ever gotten pregnant? Have you ever had sex with no protection but got "lucky" in not getting pregnant? Have you ever been separated from your parents, your family, your history, your roots? Have you ever had your baby taken from your arms while you cry and beg to keep him/her? While your heart shatters in the despair that you didn't have the support or help to be the mother you longed to be? Have you ever had to go through your whole life not knowing who you are and having those basic human rights (and primal human needs) marginalized and dismissed? Have you ever had to spend 20, 30, 50 years aching for your child, worrying about your child, suffering depression day in and day out for the LOSS of that child? Unnfounded assertions and blind judgment are at best ignorant/stunted…psychologically & emotionally inhuman.

Approximately 97% of mothers who lost their children to adoption were forced in one way or the other (usually many more than one way).This is also true today, which I cannot stress enough. It is the very rare minority that actually wants to “give up” their baby to strangers and who have done so with fully informed consent. THAT is illegal and a major human rights violation on so many levels.

The “burden” on the welfare system is simply not a valid argument. Any burden on the system is due to the way the system is designed and the lack of support/resources that can make a lasting difference for families for generations to come and in that, less burden on the system as time goes on. It’s really rather simple. However, I will not detour much into that since the most glaring issue with this argument is the underhanded assertion that poor people (or young or unmarried) are not entitled to raise their own children; as if by being poor one is somehow subhuman or unworthy to parent his/her offspring. This is not a new view, especially in the adoption industry, however repugnant.

There are far too many lies, deceit and secrets in the adoption industry. And it is all surrounded by big business (then and now).The PAPs haven’t dealt with their infertility so they want to live in denial of it. They want to live in rainbow-farting unicorn land where they pretend the adoptee is born to them (breeds need for INFANTS=coercive tactics to make that sale!) If the adoption agency can’t promise them they are 100% legally the parents (including altering the OBC &sealing files from the rightful owners of said files) and the natural family can’t/won’t “interfere” then those PAPs won’t pay upwards of $30,000 (FACT & nothing short of baby selling on the backs of poor/frightened/beaten down young mothers) for their pretend offspring.

Please note: Sealing these records does not now and NEVER HAS had anything to do with promising mothers confidentiality of any kind. The idea that natural parents have ever been promised confidentiality is a FALSEHOOD. It’s just another smokescreen to get the ignorant masses into a political frenzy about something they know nothing about though it is high time people start paying attention because you are all perpetuating the abuse of power, human rights violations out the wazoo, and a blight on our country as huge as slavery and I dare say, even genocide.

In the event that an adoption absolutely HAS to take place I do not think the child’s name should be changed, nor should the child’s birth certificate be altered & most certainly no files should be sealed from the child once he/she is an adult. Government MUST get involved in this-conduct a thorough inquiry & make serious changes to protect its citizens/families. $$$ should be taken out of the equation. No one should be able to run a business where they profit from the sale of human beings! Adoption should be outlawed completely & a kind of guardianship or permanent custody used in the cases that are absolutely 100%unavoidable. There is zero reason for secrecy when all is on the up and up, as they say.

And in closing, 3 other points I’d like to note:

1) no one wants to have a child just to hand it over to someone else. it is devastating. any woman who has given birth knows this. Abortion and adoption have NOTHING to do with each other. *This is NOT about the abortion debate.
2) another issue with all this baby selling secrecy is the need to know if you are about to marry and procreate with your sibling! can we please return to some level of common sense and human decency?
3)Losing your mother is devastating...losing your child is devastating. This is a life-long trauma that is rarely healed, ESPECIALLY when it comes to forced adoptions. How anyone can be blind to this is beyond my comprehension.

Demeters lament at blogspot dot com
There's plenty of information and facts there in the form of links in the sidebar.
Better yet, don't trust me, do some research on your own. We all must educate ourselves before we go judging others and participating in atrocious injustices we'd never want to experience ourselves.

 

[mugglebe]

I think livindisney and jrmasm need another Disney vacation. There is a way to express your opinions in a mature and non confrontational manner.

I read each post and this is my opinion.

As to the Magdalene laundries in Ireland. There is a really good movie that was made years ago about this very topic, I believe it was called "The Magdalene Sisters" but I'm not sure. I regret to say that I missed or will be missing the Dan Rather episode because my cable provider does not provide HDnet. I'm hoping someone will post it on Youtube. I will look into reading the books that were suggested, thank you!

Take care everyone!

 

[NotUrsula]

Wow, three new posters who have only posted on this thread. What are the odds?
[snipped]

Blame Google. The DIS is indexed, and those people who happen to be googling the topic of adoption abuses are finding the thread and can't resist posting -- and in the case of the blogger with the vituperative language all over the place, I'd be willing to bet that she picked it up via a Google newsfeed.

I'll go on record as saying that outlawing adoption is NEVER going to happen in the US, and it shouldn't happen. If it did we would be seeing an absolutely enormous increase in kids who become wards of the state and end up in the foster system, and it wouldn't be long before the orphanages started popping back up. Since the dawn of the human race children have been orphaned and abandoned and mistreated by their parents, and unless we really want the practice of death by exposure to come back into fashion in the Western world, we will deal with the reality that some form of legal adoption is a necessary practice in a civilized society. And yes, it needs to be very carefully regulated and as far as possible kept out of the hands of people who are in it for profit, but eliminating legal adoption is going way too far.

 

[jrmasm]

I think livindisney and jrmasm need another Disney vacation. There is a way to express your opinions in a mature and non confrontational manner.

I read each post and this is my opinion.

As to the Magdalene laundries in Ireland. There is a really good movie that was made years ago about this very topic, I believe it was called "The Magdalene Sisters" but I'm not sure. I regret to say that I missed or will be missing the Dan Rather episode because my cable provider does not provide HDnet. I'm hoping someone will post it on Youtube. I will look into reading the books that were suggested, thank you!

Take care everyone!

 

[Ceila]

Blame Google. The DIS is indexed, and those people who happen to be googling the topic of adoption abuses are finding the thread and can't resist posting -- and in the case of the blogger with the vituperative language all over the place, I'd be willing to bet that she picked it up via a Google newsfeed.

I seriously doubt that 4 (yes, it's 4 now) posters happened to Google "adoption" and came up with a Dis thread. My money is on either one poster with multiple screen names or someone with a passion for this topic who recruited some like-minded buddies to post as well.

 

[badblackpug]

I almost hate to post on this based on some of the attitudes and responses.

...but here goes...

I have 4 adopted children. My older 2 have open adoptions. They are in contact with whatever members of their birth family wish to remain in contact.

My younger 2 are closed adoptions, at the request of their respective birth mothers.

I understand coercion, to a point. My younger daughter's birth mother came from a family/culture where being an unwed mother is unacceptable. She chose adoption rather than face being ostracized by her family/culture. Was there coercion of a sort at play, yes, but she still could have made the decision to go it alone. (she was an adult) She chose a sealed adoption because she doesn't want her family to know about my daughter and because she felt it would be too difficult for her to remain in contact. This may change a few years down the line, but we will respect her privacy. We have a medical and cultural back ground (as far as what they choose to tell us) on both her and the bio father. (both opted for sealed records)

My younger son's bio mother is very young. We have no idea who his bio father is/was as she wouldn't or couldn't divulge this info. She did not want my son. She wanted an abortion, but in the state in which she lived she was unable to have one because she was too far along when she discovered or admitted to the pregnancy. She wanted a sealed adoption because she wants nothing to do with this child, if given her preference, she wouldn't have had him. We have her medical history, as much as her grandmother (her legal guardian) would give. We haven't much cultural/family history at all.

The thing with medical records is even though you are raised by your bio family you cannot expect that medical records are complete. Certain things still carry a stigma such as mental illness and addiction. This is of particular issue in adoption where the bio families may not divulge this information as they are afraid that their child will not be adopted because of this.

Having adopted children I understand their desire to know their family of origin, but I also see the flip-side of the coin. Unfortunately, not every child was conceived in love and not every mother is giving their child up for altruistic reasons. We need to remember that there are cases of rape and incest, and that, in some of those cases, a "child" showing up or contacting them may be extremely damaging to the bio parent. I don't think a person's need to know trumps the well being of the birth parent involved. I cannot imagine being a bio mother who had to look into a reproduction of the face of her attacker. I also cannot imagine being an adoptee who tracks down a bio parent only to be told they weren't wanted, or that they were conceived in violence.

I agree that unsealing adoption records should be a system of inclusion, rather than exclusion. In that both parties need to agree to contact, and both parties need to agree to what kind of contact. Whether that be meeting, or phone, or email, or mail, or just the anonymous sharing of pertinent information. It should not be that one person has the right to find another, unless the other fills out a form that says they don't want contact. In my opinion that is what was done when the birth parent initially requested closed records.

On the flip side what if the adoptee decides that they don't want to be "found?" Does the bio parent still have the "right" to track them down and initiate contact? Does the bio parents "right" to know how the child turned out trump the adoptee's right to privacy?

We see all these wonderful reunion shows on TV, where bio family meets adoptee and things go great and everyone gains a second family. What they don't show is the stories that aren't so heart-warming. They don't show the adoptee that found his mother only to learn that she was mentally ill and that he was conceived and born in a psychiatric hospital. Or even the not so dramatic where the 2 just don't "mesh" and just never develop any type of relationship.

When my younger 2 are old enough, I will share with them what information we have. When they are adults and want to try to find their birth parents I will help them in that, too, no matter what emotions it may raise on m end. I want them to be prepared, though, for the fact that their bio families may not want to be found, because, at this point, that is what they are saying.

I hope, sincerely, that my children don't, and never will, feel rejected by their bio families. I hope that they understand and accept that their bio parents did what they thought was best for them, and offered them the opportunity to have a life that they couldn't give them.

 

[RadioNate]

I seriously doubt that 4 (yes, it's 4 now) posters happened to Google "adoption" and came up with a Dis thread. My money is on either one poster with multiple screen names or someone with a passion for this topic who recruited some like-minded buddies to post as well.

In any case. I find it annoying. I lessons their credibility even if they are googling the topic and posting on random message boards that they have never been a part of.

 

[Ceila]

In any case. I find it annoying. I lessons their credibility even if they are googling the topic and posting on random message boards that they have never been a part of.

Oh, I agree. They're not participating in a discussion, they're using this forum as a platform to advance their agenda.

 

[EMom]

I would answer/rebut you point by point, as it would not be that hard to do, but......It would go in one ear and out the other. Clearly, you have some serious issues regarding adoption because of your history. You are so blinded by emotion to the FACT that you are looking at this subject through a twisted, one-sided lens. If you think the world would be a happy, shining place if all children stayed with their birthparents, you are sadly mistaken. As far as I can see from experience every day, there are oodles of people out there raising their biological children who have ZERO business being parents and only give lip service to the job. The best thing for a lot of those kids would have been to be placed in a LOVING, CARING, PREPARED home at birth instead of staying with parents who stopped being decent parents the second the child was born.

You say that no one deserves to be able to get a baby just because they are infertile, yet you seem to think the rest of society should financially support anyone and everyone who produces a baby with no means to take care of it. No thanks. You do not have to be wealthy or even middle class to parent a child well. My parents were flat out poor. Yet they raised us with love. It can be done. As I said, my sister got pregnant as a teen and rose to the challenge, becoming a wonderful mother even though she had little money. If a pregnant woman hasn't much money and realizes she wants a better life for her child than she can provide, it is NO ONE'S duty to provide her with a chunk of change. The responsibility to financially care for a child is ONE of the jobs of a parent.

You have pulled bizarre statistics out of thin air that have no basis in reality and you have insulted a lot of people with what you "know." I don't want to be unnecessarily harsh with you because of your emotional state (although you are all too ready to be harsh with others) but I will say a mother's first job is to make certain her child's needs are met. If she cannot do that, she is not ready to be a mother and frankly, a child can't wait until she gets her act together. I do not know how you were "coerced" and honestly have my doubts that was even the case. If you gave up a child for adoption, perhaps it's just easier for you to blame everyone else, but that doesn't make it right.

You are getting new posters just for this thread and those with very “emotional” or strong responses because this is a very serious topic concerning the safety of families, ending the baby selling industry (which is very much legal in the US when labeled “adoption”) and just all around basic human rights. It is very important that the general public (society) understand the truth, so I’m just going to go ahead and cover everything in one post then be on my way. Let me start by saying this is STILL happening TODAY. It happened to me in 1991.

No human being on this planet should have ANY of their basic human rights ripped from them. It doesn't matter if you are a teenager, unmarried or poor. All people deserve every chance to raise their children and all children deserve every chance to grow up in a happy, healthy home with their own flesh and blood. Women of that era were treated in horrific ways. They were silenced, shamed, bullied, marginalized, used and tossed away. All they needed was honesty and a chance. All they needed was support and guidance. Ripping babies away from their mothers is not in any way human, let alone legal. No one owes some richer married couple their child just because said couple is infertile. No one deserves to lose their baby just because they are poor.

It was and still is society and a lack of regulation in human rights/human protection (ie: baby napping and baby selling) that caused this atrocity. This is about the TRUTH finally being told. This is about justice. This about change to a better world where families stay together and citizens have a chance to prosper happily, thereby creating a happier, healthier, more productive, more humane and civilized world for everyone.

Have you ever had sex? Ever been in love? Ever gotten pregnant? Have you ever had sex with no protection but got "lucky" in not getting pregnant? Have you ever been separated from your parents, your family, your history, your roots? Have you ever had your baby taken from your arms while you cry and beg to keep him/her? While your heart shatters in the despair that you didn't have the support or help to be the mother you longed to be? Have you ever had to go through your whole life not knowing who you are and having those basic human rights (and primal human needs) marginalized and dismissed? Have you ever had to spend 20, 30, 50 years aching for your child, worrying about your child, suffering depression day in and day out for the LOSS of that child? Unnfounded assertions and blind judgment are at best ignorant/stunted…psychologically & emotionally inhuman.

Approximately 97% of mothers who lost their children to adoption were forced in one way or the other (usually many more than one way).This is also true today, which I cannot stress enough. It is the very rare minority that actually wants to “give up” their baby to strangers and who have done so with fully informed consent. THAT is illegal and a major human rights violation on so many levels.

The “burden” on the welfare system is simply not a valid argument. Any burden on the system is due to the way the system is designed and the lack of support/resources that can make a lasting difference for families for generations to come and in that, less burden on the system as time goes on. It’s really rather simple. However, I will not detour much into that since the most glaring issue with this argument is the underhanded assertion that poor people (or young or unmarried) are not entitled to raise their own children; as if by being poor one is somehow subhuman or unworthy to parent his/her offspring. This is not a new view, especially in the adoption industry, however repugnant.

There are far too many lies, deceit and secrets in the adoption industry. And it is all surrounded by big business (then and now).The PAPs haven’t dealt with their infertility so they want to live in denial of it. They want to live in rainbow-farting unicorn land where they pretend the adoptee is born to them (breeds need for INFANTS=coercive tactics to make that sale!) If the adoption agency can’t promise them they are 100% legally the parents (including altering the OBC &sealing files from the rightful owners of said files) and the natural family can’t/won’t “interfere” then those PAPs won’t pay upwards of $30,000 (FACT & nothing short of baby selling on the backs of poor/frightened/beaten down young mothers) for their pretend offspring.

Please note: Sealing these records does not now and NEVER HAS had anything to do with promising mothers confidentiality of any kind. The idea that natural parents have ever been promised confidentiality is a FALSEHOOD. It’s just another smokescreen to get the ignorant masses into a political frenzy about something they know nothing about though it is high time people start paying attention because you are all perpetuating the abuse of power, human rights violations out the wazoo, and a blight on our country as huge as slavery and I dare say, even genocide.

In the event that an adoption absolutely HAS to take place I do not think the child’s name should be changed, nor should the child’s birth certificate be altered & most certainly no files should be sealed from the child once he/she is an adult. Government MUST get involved in this-conduct a thorough inquiry & make serious changes to protect its citizens/families. $$$ should be taken out of the equation. No one should be able to run a business where they profit from the sale of human beings! Adoption should be outlawed completely & a kind of guardianship or permanent custody used in the cases that are absolutely 100%unavoidable. There is zero reason for secrecy when all is on the up and up, as they say.

And in closing, 3 other points I’d like to note:

1) no one wants to have a child just to hand it over to someone else. it is devastating. any woman who has given birth knows this. Abortion and adoption have NOTHING to do with each other. *This is NOT about the abortion debate.
2) another issue with all this baby selling secrecy is the need to know if you are about to marry and procreate with your sibling! can we please return to some level of common sense and human decency?
3)Losing your mother is devastating...losing your child is devastating. This is a life-long trauma that is rarely healed, ESPECIALLY when it comes to forced adoptions. How anyone can be blind to this is beyond my comprehension.

Demeters lament at blogspot dot com
There's plenty of information and facts there in the form of links in the sidebar.
Better yet, don't trust me, do some research on your own. We all must educate ourselves before we go judging others and participating in atrocious injustices we'd never want to experience ourselves.

 

[I Love Pluto]

The other side --- I don't know who my birth parents are. I'm 65 - finding my parents has been a yearning for me since I can remember being alive.

The "feeling" never goes away - everyone wants a Mommy & a Daddy.

Yes, I have tried. No luck.

 

[RadioNate]

The other side --- I don't know who my birth parents are. I'm 65 - finding my parents has been a yearning for me since I can remember being alive.

The "feeling" never goes away - everyone wants a Mommy & a Daddy.

Yes, I have tried. No luck.

This makes me sad. You had a mommy and daddy. You may have not known your birth parents but you had parents.

I'm not judging, not really. I just find this so incredibly sad. Sad for you and sad for the people who raised you.

 

[Pigeon]

This makes me sad. You had a mommy and daddy. You may have not known your birth parents but you had parents.

I'm not judging, not really. I just find this so incredibly sad. Sad for you and sad for the people who raised you.

I'm a mother through adoption, and I don't find it sad. I find it perfectly understandable. You can have the best adoptive parents in the world (or the worst) and still what to find people genetically related to you. This is not a statement of inadequacy about the poster's adoptive parents, it's just the way he feels. Some adopted people feel this way and some don't.

 

[jujube]

http://www.hd.net/programs/danrather/

If you have HDNET tv channel, please take note of this show. It is tomorrow night on HDNET- May 1 at 8pm. It is exposing how the lies in adoption hurt everyone involved during the period of 1940's-1980's around the world.

As an adoptee who broke the closed record barrier and found my birthmom, I have a vested interest in watching it. I have been working with birthmoms and adoptees for the twenty years since my search, and I can say that society, government and church caused untold pain and I am glad that a mainstream forum is opening up through Dan Rather. I hope that this will allow more people to realize that adoptees have a right to learn more about their own genetic history-especially for medical updates. Birthmoms should be able to know if the child they placed is happy and healthy. Closed adoption records are no longer necessary since the stigma of illegitimacy is gone and while sealed records may protect the adoptive family during the childhood years, an adult adoptee should be able to access their own original birth certificate.

Abducted is too strong a word. Mothers and fathers of truly abducted children do not know who took them, whether their children are alive or dead.
Yes, I can see someone saying that these mothers do not know the same things about their babies put up for adoption but really at least they know that these parents were vetted.

Seems logical to me that both sides should have to be willing to meet or have contact. No one should just show up on anyone's doorstep.

I agree.

Dan Rather is back? Who let him out of the nursing home?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Our daughter is 18. She's adopted. We have told her that if she ever wants to find her birth parents, we will help her. She said, " Mom, that woman gave me birth, you gave me my life." She does not feel the desire to find them at this time. If that changes, we'll stand by her and with her-it's what parents do.

 

[I Love Pluto]

This makes me sad. You had a mommy and daddy. You may have not known your birth parents but you had parents.

I'm not judging, not really. I just find this so incredibly sad. Sad for you and sad for the people who raised you.

Thank you, RadioNate.
It makes me feel good to be understood.

 

[Pigeon]

Abducted is too strong a word. Mothers and fathers of truly abducted children do not know who took them, whether their children are alive or dead.
Yes, I can see someone saying that these mothers do not know the same things about their babies put up for adoption but really at least they know that these parents were vetted.



I agree.




_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Our daughter is 18. She's adopted. We have told her that if she ever wants to find her birth parents, we will help her. She said, " Mom, that woman gave me birth, you gave me my life." She does not feel the desire to find them at this time. If that changes, we'll stand by her and with her-it's what parents do.

Yes, they've been vetted, but there are still adoptive parents who are horrible people and who horrible things, including abuse and kill their children. Even if the parents are wonderful people, that doesn't mean you don't want to know how the child is doing.

 

[I Love Pluto]

Pigeon, parents who adopt kids are God-sent. You're a special breed.

But - I still want to know my parents. It's deep inside of me. It doesn't negate who raised me, and how much I have been loved. That love, too, is the most special gift. It makes you feel wanted.

 

[RadioNate]

I'm a mother through adoption, and I don't find it sad. I find it perfectly understandable. You can have the best adoptive parents in the world (or the worst) and still what to find people genetically related to you. This is not a statement of inadequacy about the poster's adoptive parents, it's just the way he feels. Some adopted people feel this way and some don't.

Not sad in a pathetic way. Sad in a way that my heart feels bad that she's felt this way. I feel like I want to give her a hug.

Thank you, RadioNate.
It makes me feel good to be understood.

Like a said, sad in that I feel badly that someone out there has felt their whole like that they didn't really have mommy and daddy. I can be cranky and blunt but I really do hope you find the peace you are looking for.

 

[jujube]

Yes, they've been vetted, but there are still adoptive parents who are horrible people and who horrible things, including abuse and kill their children. Even if the parents are wonderful people, that doesn't mean you don't want to know how the child is doing.

Of course both biological parents and adoptive parents can be horrible. As I posted, if and when our daughter wants to meet her bio parents, we'll help her.
In our state, now that she is 18, she can put her name on a registry. If her birth parents do the same, they can meet.