Competitive sports - parent complained a coach was derogatory

[Jeff in BigD]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but maybe the kid really doesn't want to play soccer? It wouldn't be the first time that a parent chucked a kid into a sport s/he really didn't have an interest in.

Since he's 12, he's likely to be a lot more honest than a younger child about whether he wants to play or not.
If the kid isn't interested, I would figure out some refund (especially since the mom seems like a headache) & call it a day.
If the kid is genuinely interested, then figure out what his goals are & give him steps to achieve that.

Negative reinforcement clearly isn't working. Unfortunately the drill-instructor M.O. is the only mode that some coaches have, so maybe a team with a coach that is more encouraging might be a better fit?

I'm not saying to coddle the kid, throwing in some positive reinforcement while trying to critique might make the difference.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Then have the conversation with the other coach present....you do NOT humiliate a child. Would you want your child's grades talked about in front of the whole class? Would you want the teacher to say..."hey Timmy, if you spent less time in front of the TV shoving Doritos in your face, and got to bed on time, you wouldnt have bombed that Social Studies test"???

And what do you want a medal for coaching...I nor my DH are one of those parents who do not help, he is usually coaching but even when he can not we give back to the team, school whatever. We have been fingerprinted and have attended more safety, and safe environments meetings than we can count. We know exactly how and when to talk to a kid. We RARELY question a coach's methods but we certainly would have issue with someone telling a CHILD about his eating and sleeping methods. There are positive and there are negative ways of motiviating children. If the child is not living up to his potential, give him extra drills, bench him, do NOT bring up his body image, eating or sleeping habits.

Now with anything this should be investigated and all parties whould be talked to before refunds or a coach being asked to step down is done. But despite all the WONDERFUL, HARD WORKING coaches...paid and unpaid that are out there, there are still too many who have no business working with kids or need to be reminded that there are correct and incorrect ways of speaking with a child.

To play Devil's Advocate here, grades are different from sports. For one thing, no one would necessarily know if a kid bombed a test unless he volunteered that information. In sports, it is a rather obvious if a kid is sucking wind or not giving 100%. Also, if you bomb a test, you are the one who suffers. Sure, the teacher will encourage you to work harder and do better next time, but your bombing the test doesn't directly impact anyone else like it does in a team sport.

I don't know the full story so I can't for sure say that the coach is right and the parent is wrong or vice versa. I just see a difference in a teacher calling out a student for slacking off and a coach calling a player out for slacking off.

 

[mom2rtk]

To play Devil's Advocate here, grades are different from sports. For one thing, no one would necessarily know if a kid bombed a test unless he volunteered that information. In sports, it is a rather obvious if a kid is sucking wind or not giving 100%. Also, if you bomb a test, you are the one who suffers. Sure, the teacher will encourage you to work harder and do better next time, but your bombing the test doesn't directly impact anyone else like it does in a team sport.

I don't know the full story so I can't for sure say that the coach is right and the parent is wrong or vice versa. I just see a difference in a teacher calling out a student for slacking off and a coach calling a player out for slacking off.

I see what you're saying. But if the teacher has to slow down and go back over material previously covered because certain kids aren't keeping up, it would affect the other kids.

 

[Mkrop]

To play Devil's Advocate here, grades are different from sports. For one thing, no one would necessarily know if a kid bombed a test unless he volunteered that information. In sports, it is a rather obvious if a kid is sucking wind or not giving 100%. Also, if you bomb a test, you are the one who suffers. Sure, the teacher will encourage you to work harder and do better next time, but your bombing the test doesn't directly impact anyone else like it does in a team sport.

I don't know the full story so I can't for sure say that the coach is right and the parent is wrong or vice versa. I just see a difference in a teacher calling out a student for slacking off and a coach calling a player out for slacking off.

But see I think this should apply to anyone teaching children, academics, sports, music etc, there are sports that are not team oriented and I dont think a coach should call a kid out like that either. Do you want the piano teacher calling Timmy out for not practicing by saying he is overweight bc he is eating and not practicing piano. I dont think this situation needs to apply to just sports, it is someone in authority who is not motivating those correctly. You dont need to sugarcoat things but you can certainly say them in a more meaningful productive manner.

I see what you're saying. But if the teacher has to slow down and go back over material previously covered because certain kids aren't keeping up, it would affect the other kids.

 

[declansdad]

I guess it depends on what you consider derogatory. Personally, if a coach knows my kid is eating too much, or is being lazy and it is effecting his performance I have no issue with the coach saying something to my child about it. There are many other parents who feel the same as evident in this thread. Not all of us feel our precious snowflake's psyche is so fragile that it can't handle a little constructive criticism.

ETA and yes competitive sports does make a difference. When my kids trys out for a travel team it is to be on a team that competes to win. If he wants skill building and fun he can stay playing in the rec league. I do expect the coaches to do what they need to in order to have a winning team, that is what I'm paying for and that is what my kid is there for. If your (general you) kid is there for fun without a care about winning and being competitive then they can stick to the rec league. Its not fair to their teammates or their coaches if they aren't going to put forth the effort. Its not fair for the team and the parents if a coach doesn't make sure each kid is putting forth his/her best effort. Sometimes that comes with constructive criticism, if you can't take it, you don't belong there.

At what age do you feel the competitive team should be about winning first?

 

[eliza61]

At what age do you feel the competitive team should be about winning first?

Can anyone answer? When you join a competitive team. When my son started playing football seriously, my husband sat him down and explained the pressure and the higher level of expectations. Let me ask you, do people join competitive teams to lose?

Now I don't know what age soccer starts but I do know girls who swim competitively, 10, 11 they know the goal is winning.

Of course, you don't want your kid pulling a "Tonya Harding" and hiring thugs to take out the competition but they can learn about winning.

 

[declansdad]

Not really. Staying up too late and munching on Doritos (just quoting) or playing video games for hours or doing something else in excess at the expense if studying for a test WOULD result in grades that could have better if the child was focused and prepared. What? Just because every word directed at kids isn't rainbows and unicorns that it is considered offensive and punishable now???

Granted grades are an individual score, but in a team atmosphere, where one weaker position or player not giving 100% could cost the game, then it's in every coaches right to motivate that player as he sees fit. It's just that some coaches approach that process differently---from little kids all the way up to professionals.

And before anyone starts in on "winning isn't everything" ideal---there is a point in sports when that is true. But it ends after the developmental ages. If you are on a team of players, and are not giving everything of your ability and then some--you are disrespecting the other members who are

What age would this be?

 

[declansdad]

Can anyone answer? When you join a competitive team. When my son started playing football seriously, my husband sat him down and explained the pressure and the higher level of expectations. Let me ask you, do people join competitive teams to lose?

I didn't say they join to lose I asked at what age do you put winning first, above everything else.

Of course there are higher expectations at a higher level but that doesn't mean that you put winning above development at younger ages. Athletes develop differently, there are many factors to consider such as the sport you are playing, the age and gender of the athlete.

 

[eliza61]

I didn't say they join to lose I asked at what age do you put winning first, above everything else. Of course there are higher expectations at a higher level but that doesn't mean that you put winning above development at younger ages.

I think for many competitive teams they expect that there is a certain level of "development"

Once again I don't know about soccer but in travel teams and competitive swimming, they figure you are at a certain level of development.

But you are right there has to be a balance.

In the interest of full disclosure I dislike the "every kids gets a prize" thing we do with little kids.

 

[sam_gordon]

But see I think this should apply to anyone teaching children, academics, sports, music etc, there are sports that are not team oriented and I dont think a coach should call a kid out like that either. Do you want the piano teacher calling Timmy out for not practicing by saying he is overweight bc he is eating and not practicing piano. I dont think this situation needs to apply to just sports, it is someone in authority who is not motivating those correctly. You dont need to sugarcoat things but you can certainly say them in a more meaningful productive manner.

Once again, the coach never said the boy was overweight. That was only brought up here. In fact, the OP said the boy ISN'T overweight. "You eat too much" does not mean "You are overweight". Again, we don't know the circumstances around the comment.

"You like to eat and sleep more than play soccer" also doesn't mean "overweight".

 

[threecrazykids]

I didn't say they join to lose I asked at what age do you put winning first, above everything else.

Of course there are higher expectations at a higher level but that doesn't mean that you put winning above development at younger ages. Athletes develop differently, there are many factors to consider such as the sport you are playing, the age and gender of the athlete.

And don't forget natural athletic abilities. Some kids, no matter how much they work at it are NEVER going to be a starter. And typically the parents are the first hurdle to cross in acceptance of that reality.

The saddest situation in competitive sports is when the child of a natural athlete tries to push their non athletic kid through the ranks. It's heartbreaking.

To answer your question I don't think there is a cut off of "winning above everything". When I made that comment earlier, I'm not talking about thinking it's ok for a coach to stand there and scream and throw stuff and rip their players apart like their in the army the entire season. Nor am I talking about setting your kids to be (as another said ) Tanya Harding...

I'm talking about a level of play where the goal is to win - not teaching basics and fundamentals. By specific age groups there are certain levels of skills and mindsets teams will require to be successful in that specific league...success being a relative term I guess. I consider winning the game success - but to each their own.

The coaches should be continually teaching and advancing the players skills so there is no cut off of "winning only" and not caring whether they are getting better...heck, play down a level and you'd win every game.

The coaching levels in competitive leagues are likely more "winning driven" I should say. They are in the tournament to win and their players on the field are typically reflective of that.
The same coach will likely not play a kid an entire weekend of tournaments. Why? Because you put your 9 best on the field (softball/baseball) - the entire tournament.

During weekly league play those players who are not making the top 9 will continue to develop their skills along with their teammates - but during tournament play you're playing to win the entire tournament. You attempt to do that by putting your top 9 out.

 

[dizzy99]

I think if you pay to participate then there is no excuse for being berated by coaches.

Not that school coaches should be challenging but even if this is a competitive team, its still a recreational league that is essentially meaningless - it doesn't carry the same weight as a high school team. The coach should be asked to step down.

 

[undertheradar]

Then have the conversation with the other coach present....you do NOT humiliate a child. Would you want your child's grades talked about in front of the whole class? Would you want the teacher to say..."hey Timmy, if you spent less time in front of the TV shoving Doritos in your face, and got to bed on time, you wouldnt have bombed that Social Studies test"???

And what do you want a medal for coaching...I nor my DH are one of those parents who do not help, he is usually coaching but even when he can not we give back to the team, school whatever. We have been fingerprinted and have attended more safety, and safe environments meetings than we can count. We know exactly how and when to talk to a kid. We RARELY question a coach's methods but we certainly would have issue with someone telling a CHILD about his eating and sleeping methods. There are positive and there are negative ways of motiviating children. If the child is not living up to his potential, give him extra drills, bench him, do NOT bring up his body image, eating or sleeping habits.

Now with anything this should be investigated and all parties whould be talked to before refunds or a coach being asked to step down is done. But despite all the WONDERFUL, HARD WORKING coaches...paid and unpaid that are out there, there are still too many who have no business working with kids or need to be reminded that there are correct and incorrect ways of speaking with a child.

So is that conversation held when the rest of the team is practicing, or during the vast amount of my otherwise available time? Oddly enough, the problems are never available during practice time.

 

[glvsav37]

What age would this be?

At the age when you are past "developing" in the sport and start competing seriously. But is see you are trying to tie me to a number.

Developmental means recreational. Recreational means kids who are not natural athletes but want to play or kids who started later or kids who might be naturally gifted but does not want the pressure or travel or practice that goes with playing at higher levels

There is no age, but thanks for latching on to that one word.

I have seen mite hockey players (5 and 6 year olds) who could skate circles around kids 2x their age. We have travel teams here that have played in international tournaments and have done very well. If you are playing anywhere remotely near there....you are past developmental.

 

[threecrazykids]

I think if you pay to participate then there is no excuse for being berated by coaches.

Not that school coaches should be challenging but even if this is a competitive team, its still a recreational league that is essentially meaningless - it doesn't carry the same weight as a high school team. The coach should be asked to step down.

I don't know any coaches in rec OR travel who are paid for their time. I'm not from a huge city though so maybe in bigger areas they are. I don't think that by being free that should mean the coaches aren't able to get after a kid if necessary.

Our competitive leagues go all the way through high school here. Most kids play on the high school teams, but also play on the travel league as well during the season.

School sports? Sure, their coaches are paid. Don't even get me started on OUR schools "coaches" and their qualifications. There are several coaches of our high school sports who never even played the sport growing up. It's extra money in addition to their teaching job so they take it. Hence the reason our schools entire athletic program is falling apart and the travel leagues are growing by leaps and bounds.

 

[glvsav37]

Really???? anyway he/she sees fit...I highly doubt you would allow anything to go with your child....give me a break. Corporal punsihment use to be allowed in schools....anything goes right? Coaches use to run players into the ground in 100 degree heat while tossing a couple of salt tablets at them if they were lucky to get a break...so no some things that coach do/did are not the end all be all...take off the blinders! And yes there is a cause and effect to watching TV and eating too much but that should not be discussed in such a way whether in sports or in schoolwork or anywhere else that would cause humiliation for that child.

You are taking that line waaaaay out of context. Do you really think I would condone a coach being physically abusive??? Come on!

What I meant to say is that all coaches have different styles.
Some are screamers
Some are councilors
Others are tactical
And some can say nothing and get their message across with nothing but a stare.

The type of coach and his tactics are up to the organization to approve or not. I'm sure each team has 30 parent coaches who would do things much differently.

Coaching is like parenting...just 20 or so kids at a time. Some days you need to be sterner with your kids then others. But in the end they are your "family" and most teams are naturally right bc you know to a player each one has your back and likewise.

And I'll go on the record as saying I don't think what this coach said was specifically hurtful or humiliating. He didn't call him any names, racial identity or even fat. He said the kid cared about "other things" over "the sport". Really? These are the kids we are sending out to the world? And again, we are hearing one side of the story.

You want humiliating? "Move you fat @ss down that field. I bet if there were some doughnuts down there your be the first one there! Move it or else your running laps for the rest of the practice and no one on the team leaves until you are done...even if it takes all night! Hey everyone...let's watch biggie over here run these laps". That's humiliating and yes, I've been on fields where kids have been singled out and made to do things with the whole team waiting or watching them while the coach yells to them.

That us humiliating and worth a coach being removed...this instance....not so much.

 

[declansdad]

At the age when you are past "developing" in the sport and start competing seriously. But is see you are trying to tie me to a number.

Developmental means recreational. Recreational means kids who are not natural athletes but want to play or kids who started later or kids who might be naturally gifted but does not want the pressure or travel or practice that goes with playing at higher levels

There is no age, but thanks for latching on to that one word.

I have seen mite hockey players (5 and 6 year olds) who could skate circles around kids 2x their age. We have travel teams here that have played in international tournaments and have done very well. If you are playing anywhere remotely near there....you are past developmental.

You may want to do a little research about athlete development. You could start with this:

http://canadiansportforlife.ca/learn-about-canadian-sport-life/ltad-stages

 

[glvsav37]

You may want to do a little research about athlete development. You could start with this: http://canadiansportforlife.ca/learn-about-canadian-sport-life/ltad-stages

Research? Research what? All that is link is telling me is that there is "movement" to change the mindset of sports?

" Canadian Sport for Life is a movement to improve the quality of sport and physical activity in Canada. CS4L links sport, education, recreation and health and aligns community, provincial and national programming. Canadian Sport for Life's Long-Term Athlete Development framework is a seven-stage training, competition and recovery pathway guiding an individual’s experience in sport and physical activity from infancy through all phases of adulthood. Canadian Sport for Life and Long-Term Athlete Development represent a paradigm shift in the way Canadians lead and deliver sport and physical activity in Canada. "

That's all well and good, but I think there are branches of training that go beyond this. ESP in the "train to compete" level they have. In many sports 16 is way to late to introduce a competitive mindset? Heck kids are drafted and/or having colleges look at them by 16. Why should a naturally talented kid be held back.

But, we are really getting off topic. Somehow I don't think the kid in the OP's issue is gonna make any recruit class.

That said, i still don't think the coach's comment was THAT abusive that the parent feels they need to take it to the level they have.

 

[threecrazykids]

Research? Research what? All that is link is telling me is that there is "movement" to change the mindset of sports?

" Canadian Sport for Life is a movement to improve the quality of sport and physical activity in Canada. CS4L links sport, education, recreation and health and aligns community, provincial and national programming. Canadian Sport for Life's Long-Term Athlete Development framework is a seven-stage training, competition and recovery pathway guiding an individual’s experience in sport and physical activity from infancy through all phases of adulthood. Canadian Sport for Life and Long-Term Athlete Development represent a paradigm shift in the way Canadians lead and deliver sport and physical activity in Canada. "

That's all well and good, but I think there are branches of training that go beyond this. ESP in the "train to compete" level they have. In many sports 16 is way to late to introduce a competitive mindset? Heck kids are drafted and/or having colleges look at them by 16. Why should a naturally talented kid be held back.

But, we are really getting off topic. Somehow I don't think the kid in the OP's issue is gonna make any recruit class.

That said, i still don't think the coach's comment was THAT abusive that the parent feels they need to take it to the level they have.

I'm with you. I'm not in favor of changing the entire concept of competitive sports to cater to the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.

I also don't like the idea of conforming everything our kids do to include everyone just so no one has hurt feelings or is left out. Life isn't like that - or at least right now it's not...I guess who knows what the future brings.

I honestly fear for our future with some of the parental intervention that is taking place in our children's lives.

 

[declansdad]

Research? Research what? All that is link is telling me is that there is "movement" to change the mindset of sports?

" Canadian Sport for Life is a movement to improve the quality of sport and physical activity in Canada. CS4L links sport, education, recreation and health and aligns community, provincial and national programming. Canadian Sport for Life's Long-Term Athlete Development framework is a seven-stage training, competition and recovery pathway guiding an individual’s experience in sport and physical activity from infancy through all phases of adulthood. Canadian Sport for Life and Long-Term Athlete Development represent a paradigm shift in the way Canadians lead and deliver sport and physical activity in Canada. "

That's all well and good, but I think there are branches of training that go beyond this. ESP in the "train to compete" level they have. In many sports 16 is way to late to introduce a competitive mindset? Heck kids are drafted and/or having colleges look at them by 16. Why should a naturally talented kid be held back.

But, we are really getting off topic. Somehow I don't think the kid in the OP's issue is gonna make any recruit class.

That said, i still don't think the coach's comment was THAT abusive that the parent feels they need to take it to the level they have.

I'm with you. I'm not in favor of changing the entire concept of competitive sports to cater to the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.

I also don't like the idea of conforming everything our kids do to include everyone just so no one has hurt feelings or is left out. Life isn't like that - or at least right now it's not...I guess who knows what the future brings.

I honestly fear for our future with some of the parental intervention that is taking place in our children's lives.

It's too bad the two of you don't actually read the material about athlete development. It isn't about a trophy for everyone or waiting until someone is 16 to introduce a competitive mindset.